Blue_Centurion

Oooh. So upset. Mwah Hah Hah

Ach, that explains it! Thank you New Dawn. I thought they were engaged. They were missing too much, they could have been in there for a minute and it would not have mattered. That is the simplest explanation. I however have two SO Acc + my targeting drone up. Heh. That is why I got their attention. Appreciate the help, that one had me confused. (Not too hard really)

New dawn, I had to read your post three times to understand it. lol. I think I got the gist of most of it.

One thing that I want to know more about... How does taunt dictate what attacks an AV or anyone else uses?

Atheism, you seem to have found something to believe in. That I am lying to you.

For me it is a simple case of mind over matter. I do not mind because you do not matter.

I am not saying I know why, I am actually confused by it. I thought I was playing somewhat cautiously, really didn't see a great probability of faceplant. It was an AE farm, cranked to serious level discrepancy. 3 tanks waded in, I waited a few seconds. I lined up my narrow cone, that takes me a couple seconds to eyeball max efficiency. I unleashed hell. 3 Samurai peeled off and made me their snugglebunny.

Yeah, I am slightly embarrassed to say, but it was an AE PUG team. It was a Samurai farm, and it was cranked to a serious level difference. And I may have only waited 5 seconds, but seriously, everyone looked engaged, and it does take me a while to line up that narrow Full Auto cone for best effect.

I am just amazed that even 3 poorly run tanks cannot hold the agro for one group. Especially after hearing everyone sing the praises of tauntless tanks. Even the 3 on the team were like "We dont need to taunt." sigh.

What is really frustrating is that the people who seem to know what they are talking about tactically run whatever they are given pretty good. Give them a 1st level tank with no taunt and they will still try to make the most of it. Give someone with no game experience or a stubborn streak a 4 billlion 50 and they can be of little use on a team. And you cannot say anything to them that seems to help. It just makes it worse somehow.

Sigh, I guess to finish my AR experiment I will solo the last 15 levels like I did with my Fire/Mental/Fire blaster. I found a wonderful AE mish with 5 res bubblers/5 def bubblers. You just sit in the sweet spot and kill. But it does get old after an hour or two, or three, or four. On the other hand being insulated from AE PUG teams has its own rewards.

K Sarrate. Good point. My problem is last night I was on a team with 3 tanks. One was a 4 billion build (saw the bonuses myself.) Now, I do not know what powers they were using, but 2 at least had taunt in their builds. When I asked them later they said they were not using taunt, that they were doing damage, and that I was playing like a tank.

We engaged one mob of 15 or so. By we, I mean they. I hung back with my AR blaster. After 10 seconds everyone looked interested in the tanks. I lined up my cones (from mid range) and layed into the mob. Not one, not two, but three critters peeled away from the tanks and waxed my blaster.

Now, you seem to have good math, great research. I have a face planted blaster I thought I was playing cautiously. Who is right?

Wow, interesting discussion. I started this same line on tankers. Many of the same points are made, but on redside the argument that "I am just here to do damage" is a lot more powerful. Brutes are hard to top for sustained ST pain dealing.

My main brute is a SS/Will, with 4 purp sets (yes, I am going for that fifth purp set!), also, the best procs, etc. Pretty much a global rech monster that spams the hardest 6 attacks I got and ignores the rest. (shame too, some of them are fun, and all those wasted slots) Wasted slots, right, why I was bragging, er explaining. No extra slots. As a Will tank I needed fighting set, so kick was taken plus 2 shields. Not a 100,000 month vet, so I had to tank the punch from flight to open up fly power. I really do not have room for taunt on my build. I understand that can be bad for squishies, so I always run in and lay down my 2 AoE attacks at the beginning of every spawn attack. Then I start wailing on the boss, spamming my AoEs as they come up (they are 2 of those 6 I constantly hammer)

My brute actually can hold a ton of agro. People do not like him, they think he is a threat. Conversely, I was teaming with 3 tanks last night on my blaster. One of those tanks bragged he was a 4 billion buildout (I saw the bonuses.) They engaged about 15 samurai in AE, one neatly grouped spawn. They were not using taunt. I let them engage for 10 seconds. Everyone looked involved in the fight. I lined up my cones and started blasting with my rifle. Three Samurai decided i needed attention. Run little squishie! (I didn't make it). If that was 3 brutes, I think I would have been okay, maybe not, but I know my odds would have been better. I know my brute could have held the interest of those 15 Samurai, heh. Probably waxed a boss before a blaster could have got to him too, or at least have him down to tiny health.

Again, interesting discussion. Thanks.

Last night on my blaster I was teamed with 3 tankers. 2 had no taunt. The other had a 4 billion build (I saw the bonuses). They engaged 1 Samurai spawn, maybe 15 Samurai. I waited 10 seconds, lined up my cones, and started cleaning the critters off. I was pretty surprised when 3 peeled off and decided I was their biggest threat level.

Now I started a thread about taunting, and I got some good discussion. This is more of a complaint.

I now feel like I have to interview tankers to see if they know what they are supposed to be doing.

This is the equivalent of a dom deciding that they are just gonna do attack, frack controlling anything.

I do not mind not having a tank on the team. I understand a lot of tankers really want a brute blueside. I get it, that's why most of my 50s are brutes, with just 2 50 tanks. But this really got to me. 3 tanks that could not hold agro, because not a single one hit taunt. Really frustrating because the stadard response from each of them is "I am doing damage" lol. Yeah, I am glad doms and trollers do not have this strange problem.

Blue teams are set up to be stronger than the sum of their parts. It goes back to the Devs reading comics. I agree Tankers should do more damage, did they miss that bricks on most teams do tons of damage? But they did give tankers tools to save their teammates. And yes, that is their job.

k, rant over.

Sailboat, it comes down to two things. First is threat level. When a Tank is not taunting the threat level can drop below what a Blaster has going, or what a Brute can agro. I know alll about damage auruas. Those are meant to hold the group around the tank while the Tank taunts those that seem to be on the fence about who they should wail on.

But primarily it is deeply personal I guess. I have played Tanks, and I have a couple of them at 50. I have played lots of Brutes, and I got multiple 50s of those (some with the exact same build....don't ask.) Now I am starting to seriously run Blasters, having 50d my main one a week ago. I say this not to show how many 50s I have, but just to let you know I have thought about it, and understand Tanks and Brutes.
I feel like tankers who don't take taunt either do not understand the role Tanks were designed for on a team, or understand that but are trying to push the build into a different archtype. Either way, not an individual that I want to count on for tanking. I would prefer a world-wise brute that knows they don't have taunt, and tries to compensate for it with playstyle. Much better that than a Tank who is unhappy with playing the build.

Heh, there are some differences between a Brute and a Scrapper. A Brute will gladly chance taking an alpha, even one it's not sure to survive, on the sheer chance of getting all that great agro.

Now the discussion is turning in an interesting direction. The reason I started this thread was I was mildly perturbed that some Tankers seemed to be wanting to play Brutes, and I needed a Tanker with taunt.

Here it is pointed out that soon Brutes will be going blue. How will tanks adjust? When I play a blaster I really would prefer to run with a tank that taunts. But I would prefer to run with a brute rather than a tank if no taunt was involved.

Lets here it, what is the best ranged ST setup. Lay it out with all 3 sets please.

I assume Ice will be most peoples primary choice. But I could be wrong.

I'll throw out a guess, haven't played this myself: Ice/Energy/Munitions

Also, if you can, please say why the synergy of the sets enhance the damage, strategy of staying at range and doing great ST damage.

Heyas,

Aett, you are right. That is my brute post. But I was not making an arguments why brutes do not need taunt with that post. I was asking if my brute needed taunt for Master strike Forces.

Sarrate pointed out that Brutes and Tanks do two very different jobs. With the exception of the granite brute Sarrate is right. Brutes are super heavy scrappers more than they are tanks. Also, Brutes love agro. To generate it (most brutes forego taunt) we do crazy stuff like running to the next mob and making sure we get the whole alpha. That pumps the rage bar, and fuels the beauty of smash. Even tanks who have a problem taking that alpha generally use that tactic. But enough about brutes, this is a tank post, and brutes are generally not played as tanks.

The reason I posted this originally is I am now playing blasters. My 50 Fire/Mental/Fire has a favorite tactic. It requires a tank with taunt. The tank leads in, getting the spawns attention. I step in right next to the tank (very safe now), I drain Psyche (pumps my end/health regen, then "Nova", pop 2 blues, then start letting loose with the massive AoE that is why Fire/Mental/Fire is so sick. So this 2 person bit of teamwork will finish a spawn off very efficiently. The Tank keeps the agro, even while the blaster is just dealing sick amounts of damage.

In my view a tanker is closer to a controller than a brute. They have one control power, taunt. But when they use it effecively, and they are built to make the most of it, they can completely control a spawn.

Isn't blapping more a decision of where to normally fight from? Ranged ST/AoE attacks are loved by some blasters, while others like to make a calculated decision when to wander into the midst of a group and kill kill kill. My fire/mental/fire has a favorite tactic. Walk into a mob that has been agroed (preferably by a taunting tank), Aim, Build up, Drain Psyche, Nova, pop a couple blues, start dealing out the AoE with the rest of the attack chains, may need to pop one more blue before the drain psyche starts kicking in. Zero "melee" attacks, but everything up close and very personal.

I saw it posted earlier (probably a few times) that it really is all about a calculated decision when to commit. Blasters are like Queens in chess. They can be killed by anything, but are gawdawful powerful, so when you use them have it well thought out. I will let tanks/scrappers really take a walloping while I check all ativity and decide whether a stray spawn is not gonna decide my blaster is its new toy. When I'm sure I am golden I swoop in and unleash hell. If I still misjudge there is always Rise of the Pheonix, and payback is a ***** lol.

Interesting data. I just 50d my fire/mental/fire. Right now he has SOs. I will look at your post for clues as I start to I/O him. Drain psyche got me from 30-50 in AE soloing large groups. (Thanks to the bloke that wrote the mish with 10 bubble minions). I just sat in the midst of the pack laying out pain in all directions. Drain psyche allowed me the limitless end needed, plus heals to deal with the inevitable lucky shots. I would recommend at least 3 slotting it for Rech. You want this up as often as possible. It seems like you will put I/Os in it, just make sure the set has generous rech.

Curious, why Ice mastery?

I just got a 50 Fire/Mental/Fire Blaster. Tons of damage, although playing this build semi blapper is the most efficient because of the end/health boost from the PBAoE attack from Mental. I chose Fire as the primary, because of damage, and was not disappointed. The sheer volume of pain that this guy puts out is stupid. Part of it is PBAoE, so teams with good tanks (meaning taunting ones), and shielder/buffer/healers are required. But that is what I built this guy for, TFs that are made up of good teammates. And for the inevitable faceplant Rise of the Pheonix is sweet.

I am now leveling a AR/DEV to 50, just for a themed toon. I was surprised how much damage the AR puts out. There are a few drawbacks. The knockback, while not as horrid as Energy, is still something to be aware of. It can be useful to have a KB in some attacks though. You have to play the AR very tactically. Constantly shifting position and retargeting to lay down the most effective cones. If you are willing to do that you have a damage dealer that is excellent. The range is not super long, because flamethrower, a primary attack cone, has a shortish range. However, ST damage is darned long range. I plan to go with munitions mastery to finish this guy out, part of the theme, and I hear the missile is a nice long range power.

Thanks for the discussion. Definitely two camps on this issue. I want to say that I really appreciate tanks that have taunt, and use it. As I stated at first, none of my brutes have taunt. It seems a lot of the non taunt tankers should be pleased when brutes are available blueside.

As a Fire/Mental/Fire blaster I can draw a ton of agro (has to do with massive killing power). But a blaster is the best half a hero in the game. They got one half of a heroes power, can dish it out but not take it. Their synergistic compliment is the tank. A tank (with taunt) and a blaster working together make one complete hero.

Thank you again.

Thanks for the tips. I 50d this guy on Saturday Mar 6. He is pretty smooth to play. Last 20 levels I soloed him thru AE on giant mobs of +2 x8 (thanks to whoever wrote the collect 10 shield minions farm!). I plan on using this guy as my main for blueside TF. He just consistently puts out major pain in all directions.

I started a AR/Dev guy during the double exp weekend. Thanks to a random old school farm hit 21 in less than 3 hours. I am now lost in this build lol. I normally run brutes. I got a 50 Blaster, Fire/Mental/Fire. The playstyle could not be more different. My Fire blaster is a straightforward machine of death. Spam buttons, choice is AoE or ST. This guy I have to consider everything before each shot, my position, spawns position, teammates position. I plan to 50 this guy, but not sure when. I was a little discouraged when I soloed him at 21. But I will give him to mid 30s based on what i read here. Really really want full auto lol.

Scrappers do not seem to talk a lot, but what the heck. i'll give my second question a shot. For a Spines scrapper, what is better Regen, or Willpower?

Which is better against AVs? Defense or Resistance?

Ach, forgot to mention the build is Fire/Mental. I like the KB Aoe power for crowd control in weird situations, or as extra AoE damage in a lockdown situation. Similarly the hold will stack with the mental ranged hold i think. So I am really leaning towards this set even more.

Thanks for all the help on figuring which power sets work for me.

I am looking at massive damage output. Plan to purple it to achieve this. (I have a brute if I need to be a conservative damage dealer.)

Is Char or Bonfire useful are really my major questions I guess. ? Since I will be having massive rech I will mostly be spamming my main AoEs.

I am thinking seriously about fire as the ancillary pool. I have heard melt armor is no good. My real question is should I take Fire Shield? I plan to run on teams, which will hopefully help with not taking agro and/or having buffs and heals. I do not want a toggle to drain my end, because i want everything available for laying out the pain.

Rise of the Pheonix is a definite. I plan on faceplanting regularly.

I have an energy/energy that I soloed the game with through level 20. Danged powerful alone. i took an alternate version of him into AE to see what would happen on teams/at later levels. I would never do a TF with this guy lol. He is not team friendly. For that I started my Fire/Mental. But solo he is da bomb.

Thanks for all the help on figuring which power sets work for me.

I am looking at massive damage output. Plan to purple it to achieve this. (I have a brute if I need to be a conservative damage dealer.)

I am thinking seriously about fire as the ancillary pool. I have heard melt armor is a no no. My real question is should I take Fire Shield? I plan to run on teams, which will hopefully help with not taking agro and/or having buffs and heals. I do not want a toggle to drain my end, because i want everything available for laying out the pain.

Rise of the Pheonix is a definite. I plan on faceplanting regularly.

Is Char or Bonfire useful? Since I will be having massive rech I will mostly be spamming my main AoEs.