Bill Z Bubba

Yes. But I haven't for two reasons: 1: I don't feel like farming up the 2 billion necessary to get the pvp unique and 2: I didn't feel like having the pause in my attack chain. With I-19 around the corner, I'll be able to get a gladiator unique with hero merits AND I'll have the +recharge alpha slot to close out the pause in the attack chain.

I'm showing you right now that this change on its own without even considering the incarnate abilities is going to FURTHER trivialize the existing content.

To be honest, the more I ponder it, the less likely I'll be to bother with elude. I don't PvP enough to care about that angle, and when the fit hits the shan in PvE, I can always lean on insps. I think that the next build will be dropping combat jumping and going with maneuvers and assault instead since I'll have the extra recovery from physical perfection to cover the added end cost.

SR, and for that matter ninjitsu, don't need much help from IOs to hit the softcap.

For SR:
13.875 from toggles
5.625 from passives
1.875 from combat jumping
2.275 from maneuvers
3.75 from weave

Total unenhanced: 27.4
Total enhanced: 42.744

Add on the +3 from the steadfast in tough and you're done.

I don't have hasten in my build right now due to the lack of another available power pool.

This change allows me to add it. Even without considering the alpha slot, I'll be able to run the followup, slash, focus chain with a slight pause before followup finishes recharge. Having seen that my disgust at pauses in attack chains can be overcome by substantial increases in DPS, I think I'll be ok with that.

The value of that pause when not considering the alpha slot is about .3 seconds. This will reduce the DPS boost some from that 239 value, but not by much. Leaving out assault will bump it down slightly as well. I'd tell you the exact value if I had remembered to turn back on my rig at home this morning.

If you absolutely must have the complete rundown on what this change will be doing to my main's damage output, I'll be happy to work it out later in the day but here's the current plan:

Current build:
Claws powers chosen: All minus swipe and confront
SR powers chosen: All minus elude
Boxing, Tough, Weave
Combat Jumping
Fly
Swift, Health, Stamina
Conserve Power

I-19 build:
Claws: All minus strike and confront
SR: All (+1 power)
Boxing, Tough, Weave
Combat Jumping
Fly
Hasten (+1 power)
Conserve Power, Physical Perfection (+1 power)

I'll need to migrate 2 slots from the current build over to hasten. No other slot changes will need to occur, although they probably will occur anyway to maximize the build. Yes, hasten will be a better choice for my build than assault. If I wanted to get truly silly, I could drop fly and combat jumping and replace them with maneuvers and assault. There is a very good chance that I will drop combat jumping for assault. We'll see what I work out.

End outcome? A 30+ DPS increase in single target DPS. More regen. More recovery. More defense when needed against massive tohit buffs or defense debuffs. All without considering incarnate abilities and all because the devs want the 1-20 game to be a more enjoyable experience.


EDIT: Answers to your edits:

Incarnate abilities will function in level 50 content. This means the LRSF, STF, LGTF, and whatever else that can be run at level 50. Existing content.

As for elude, single slotted with a basic level 50 IO grants... crap, don't even have Mids on hand.. .40% recharge? Plus the 102.5% global I currently have, +70 from hasten... 1000/3.125 = 320 seconds. 180 up 140 down. And only needed during extremely rough patches. The crash will be easily avoided by a well timed blue plus conserve power.

I'm already preparing for diminishing returns on team buffs. Oh wait, it won't affect me much since I solo so much of the time.


You don't consider an increase of 36 DPS to be a leap? Interesting.

I have 5 LotGs in my main right now. Pretty easy to do when you have 8 defense granting powers in the build.

That said, this is precisely the type of thing I'm concerned about. Making the LotG +recharge a unique would be a double nerf to my build as I'd not only lose 30% global recharge but I'd also lose the defense buff % it adds to the 5 powers I have it slotted in.

Notice, however, that I stated "type of thing." I don't see the devs bothering with the LotG. I do see setIO defense buffs getting hit across the board, though.


As I mentioned, adding elude will help against some of the nastier foes. Arachnos, on the other hand, tend to rip through SR builds because of non-positional psi attacks and extreme accuracy buffs, neither of which will be affected by more defense past the softcap.

What WILL help against arachnos, a group I *CAN* solo against at +4/x8 although it can be time consuming at the moment, will be the heightened regen and damage output I'll have after this change goes through.

It's a truly simple concept: Make fitness inherent, I get another pool and three more powers. I become stronger. The foes I can fight NOW become easier. The game becomes easier.

I'm unsure why I have to repeat this fact.

With I-19 we're supposed to be getting more difficult content. If this content is available to me as a soloist, then the power creep will have a counter. If this new content is completely gated off from soloists, then I'll be left stomping the crap out of ALL the enemy groups once I get a handle on how the new incarnate abilities will be affecting my build.


Zero percent. Every character I have ever or will ever build has swift, health and stamina.

Confirmed. Screw the rating and gimme some gore.

No, I don't think that my main's build is the norm. It's not even the norm for my stable of characters. I have two 50s that are tricked out. Two 50s that have little more than basic IOs. All the rest are between levels 6 and 39 with the vast majority of enhancements being standard TOs, DOs, SOs with a splattering of various IOs.

For the most part, this change is going to mean that I no longer need to be as concerned as I am about endurance consumption and downtime. For the most part this is going to mean nothing but an increase in my leveling speed.

It might also mean that I give tanks and defenders another chance since heightened recovery will mean more time to utilize their piss-poor damage output.

Nothing is free. I want to know what the tradeoff is going to have to be for this sudden boon.

It's not a problem of a few standout IOs. It is a systemic issue with the development team's current mindset regarding the direction the game is headed.

Once upon a time, high defense was relegated to a few powersets. Now every blaster worth his salt is softcapped to range.

+recharge is being granted in a vast number of sets. As are +HP and +regen boosts.

I am not arguing against this particular change in a vacuum. I was no doubt one of the ones rooting for it in the past, but that was before the days when I could sustain a non-stop attack chain at full tilt indefinitely thanks to the benefits of SetIOs.

There are several, as I see it, severe flaws in this game that making this inherent fitness change now exacerbates.

There's already Too Much personal buffing. This change is going to allow for even more across the board for everyone that has uses fitness in their builds.

I accept that many players don't give a damn. Many players were perfectly happy with the game as it was back when a tank could herd everything in Perez Park to the point that they were stacked halfway up the war wall while a blaster could lay waste to them in complete safety.

I actually am happy we'll no longer have to trudge through 20 levels of stamina-less existence.

What I am not happy about is the impending ED or GDN level nerf that is going to have to occur to balance everything back out.

And no, I don't consider the slightly higher difficulty that currently exists in Praetoria to be enough to balance this out.

I see where our miscommunication is coming from.

The PvP example was just that, an example. I also showed where this change, using the exact same power changes as in my PvP example, also benefits me heavily in PvE.

As you state, the enemies in PvE are static. They can't gripe about the unfairness of the power creep that is occurring and has been occurring for quite some time in this game. This change is causing further PvE power creep.

From a purely PvE standpoint, the addition of assault to my current build, done so without any sacrifice to the build at all, will change my single target damage output on paper from 203 DPS to 210 DPS. I've already covered how the addition of elude will affect PvE.

This the power creep in the end game I speak of.

You know what else I'll be able to do in PvE alone should I wish it come I-19?

I'll be able to dump combat jumping and replace it with maneuvers, leave off super jump, replace it with physical perfection and now have an open pool to add hasten On Top Of the +recharge alpha slot which is going to punch me right into the range for the followup, slash, focus, repeat without pause attack chain.

My DPS will then go from the aforementioned 210 DPS up to 239 DPS while also leaving me softcapped to everything with even more regen and recovery than I had before.

Power creep. Huge, possibly ridiculous, power creep.

I fail to see your point. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing.

It's full on power creep. Folks are posting in this thread that it will be some huge sacrifice to spread out more slots amongst more powers.

I'm showing that this is a silly belief.

Even in PvE adding single slotted elude means that the current defense killers out there become a non-issue. Not that they're much of an issue these days anyway.

In the case of PvP, while it's certainly possible that there are other players that dip into it only occasionally like I do and will be altering their builds in similar ways, the secondary point is that I'll get to be that much closer to the serious PvPers without having to bother with a PvP-centric build and do so without making any sacrifices at all with my primary build.

These same PvPers will probably also enjoy being able to throw in PvE-centric powers that they might have left out of their PvP builds.

I'm not, however, making a judgement call on this change. I'll enjoy it for no other reason but that I do run through lowbies all the time. Having stamina at level 2 means that soloing these lowbies will become even faster.

What I AM pondering is the general ramifications of this change in the end game. What I've shown is one example of how much more powerful in general this change will make my main character with a simple respec that won't involve any loss or even adjustment of the currently slotted enhancements.

And I can already solo at +4/x8. Against some groups, it's a cakewalk. Against others, it's not. Against the groups that are difficult because of odd tohit rules, see master illusionist pets or nemesis vengeance and devouring earth crystals, elude is going to push them into the easy realm.

And we'll be getting this on top of incarnate powers over the next few issues.

A few nights ago, I recreated (for the 50th time or so) my peacebringer. Unlike in the past, she now gets sands of mu, the blackwand, the nemesis staff, a buff pet, faster base speed on sprint, energy flight and combat flight and ninja run.

Needless to say, leveling this PB now has already gone considerably faster than in the past. With I-19, there will be another huge buff to leveling speed with the addition of inherent fitness.

I guess I'm wondering when the devs are going to go ahead and hand out the instant level 50 button.

Yes. Currently I lack the mobility many of the other PvPers have since I don't have SJ. As it stands now, I have no way to get back the defense I lose by entering a PvP zone due to PvP's diminishing returns. With the addition of single slotted Elude, during its uptime I'll be very close to softcapped again if not past it.

Better mobility + less incoming hits = greatly increased effectiveness. Not that I pvp all that often, but the point was to show that some of us will be getting a considerable buff from this change without any sacrifice to our builds at all.

I approve.

Are yall going to go back and adjust the non-praetorian 1-20 game so that it won't be a complete cakewalk at base diff? Or will you be leaving it as is because we have the difficulty slider?

But then what was the point of increasing sprint, hover and fly's base speeds?

Having health and stamina at level 1... yea, great. Seriously. Anyone griping about the 1 to 20 game after that is smoking crack.

Welcome to easy mode from 1 to 50. Good thing we have a diff slider.

O.O

Fireball also has a max target 16. NIIICE. Maybe it is time to use a secondary build for farming.

I view Claws as a set that begs for respecs.

When I start a new claws user, and I do it often because I love the low game with claws, I take Swipe, Strike, Slash, Spin and Followup.

Spin should never be skipped and should be taken the moment it is available. There's some math reasons behind this, but just take is gospel. Don't skip spin. If there's two foes in range and Spin is recharged, use it.

The Swipe/Strike thing was already covered. Later on in your character's life, you should feel free to drop one of them. If style is more important to you than DPS numbers, Swipe is probably the right choice. Unless you're a number cruncher in game, you probably won't notice Strike's slightly higher damage output.

Followup on a brute is an odd thing, and I've no doubt that some brute claws players will skip it, especially if they're getting +tohit from another source. However, the best attack chains will include it.

Eviscerate versus Shockwave. I'm not going there. This is what respecs are for. I used to hate Eviscerate because of its animation, but I use it these days because FU, Spin, Eviscerate, repeat is very good for farming. Shockwave's mitigation is freaking HUGE. Being able to open with SW turns enemy spawn alpha strikes into a barrage of tickling. Play with them both, respec out the one you like less... or keep them both and use them as the situation on the battlefield dictates.

Attack chains to shoot for:

Single target:
FU, Slash, Focus, repeat (This is the holy grail but the recharge needed to get there is freaking ridiculous at 313% total for followup)

FU, Slash, Focus, Strike (or Swipe,) repeat (This chain can have 2 chances for build up and 1 chance for damres debuff)

FU, Slash, Eviscerate, repeat (This chain can have 1 chance for buildup and 2 chances for dam-res debuff)

AoE:
Any, although my current farming chain as mentioned is FU, Spin, Eviscerate with Shockwave used to kill enemy alpha strikes