Bill Z Bubba

That's what I got as well.

quick reply is evil.

At first I was like, "I don't even know who you are on myspace."

Then I was all, "I don't even farkin USE mysapce!"

And then I went, "Waitaminute, I'm not Caleb."

And THEN I thought, "Oh... qr... disregard."

Then I'm not following your math. As long as the tank's damage output exceeds the enemy's regen rate, and his mitigation is greater than the incoming damage, he could let himself regain endurance with base recovery and use nothing but brawl.

It's like you're ignoring that base recovery and mitigation exist.

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There is a huge difference here, though, specially about tankers: they are no couch potatoes, they are meant to actually be able to fight longer by virtue of surviving for longer periods of time. This is the only virtue they have coming to them in solo play and it's meaningless due to not having the endurance to back it up.

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No, they are meant to be able to take more damage. Not fight longer. And they do take more damage because for the same amount of end they get more benefit out of toggle mitigation. They get more benefit out of passives. They get more benefit out of just being tanks due to higher hit points.

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The tanker will not finish the race the scrapper starts, he wont have enough endurance.

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The tank will finish. He just takes longer. Why does the tank have to fight at the same pace as the scrapper when he has the mitigation to let him take longer to finish the race?

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And above 45% defense is not a waste if you want to stand toe-to-toe with AVs and EBs while going AFK. I wanted to see how much I could bring up my defenses.

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Unless you're fighting +6 AVs, the extra defense isn't helping you.

Critters get accuracy buffs now up to +5. At +6 and higher they start getting tohit buffs on top of the accuracy buffs.

Thanks to the way the tohit/defense equations work, an AV from +0 to +5 will have exactly the same chance to hit you if you have 45%, 46% or 237% defense.

Unless the AV has a defense debuff or some power based inherent tohit buff.

Just figured out a possible chain for Followup, Slash, Eviscerate which would allow for both the Achiles' and Gladiator -DR procs.

Has almost identical DPS as FU, Slash, Focus, Strike but of course needs a lot more recharge. 52% more.

Oh da possibilities.

Eviscerate DPA: 0.793460925
Strike DPA: 0.818181818


And DANGIT! To whoever asked earlier, I didn't utilize the extra crit chance for the powers that have it like headsplitter, storm kick and eviscerate.

That's on the list of fixes.

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would like to see stone melees DPS with 237% recharge

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Now that I've yanked out Against All Odds, here's what I've got:

SM: 279% recharge in Seismic
SS, SF, Gloom, SF, HM: 233.7 DPS

EM: 237% recharge in TF
ET, Gloom, BS, TF: 209.3 DPS

I'll be rechecking everything over the next couple nights and putting in all the brute/scrapper primaries but I'm dumping all the secondary data I was going to use.

Snappin, yes, I'm assuming full IO loadouts of some configuration. Purple sets, LotG +rec, the works.

Going for a SO only build is an entirely different monster.

From the calcs I did over the last few days, EM is still up there with the big boys on single target damage output.

With 237% recharge in total focus, we can have an attack chain of ET, Gloom, BS, TF, repeat for very nice damage. I'll be setting this up on my em/fa soon.

Still leaves EM suffering with weak AoE and pretty lousy group mitigation.

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Anyone know the recharge on:

Gambler's Cut > Golden Dragonfly > Gambler's Cut > Soaring Dragon

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GD needs 250%

The chain I used was GD, GC, SD, GC.

Depends on your secondary. Regen and SR benefit greatly from keeping spawns on their backs. Invul and WP benefit from spin more by keeping all the enemies in close.

As a claws/sr, I wouldn't want to relive the 32 to 50 ride without shockwave. However, now at 50, soft-capped and IOed up, I'll be swapping shockwave for eviscerate since all I'm doing these days is farming AE tickets.

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Oh why not? I ran with the 304% recharge needed for HS, Hack, Dis, Hack.

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I think you should choose a recharge allowance that's a bit more reachable, like 270-280. An attack chain that's unobtainable is of little use.

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270 was the goal. However, Chaos pointed out that even with a .5sec gap between disembowel and the second hack, using much less than 304% recharge, that chain did more damage than the chain I had posted.

So when we get down to the nittygritty, we really need to look at each chain and determine what pauses might exist with 270% recharge and whether they're worth using anyway.

I could go back in and add that half a second to the chain time for BS, but even without the added time, we see where BS falls, so I saw no point in messing with it further.

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BF AS SS AS
+313% recharge in AS, but becomes more efficient than the other chains before that point. I'm too lazy to calculate it, though, and procs play a big part in that so this might be a chain you're not interested into.

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Oh why not? I ran with the 304% recharge needed for HS, Hack, Dis, Hack.

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When is it okay to kick?

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Any time you have the star and a teammate is being a butthead.

To Mids, thank you for all the work you put into such a fantastic tool.

To Steiner, thanks in advance for all the hell we're about to put you through.

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brutes have to be at 85% fury to do the damage of a tanker?

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O.o


Brute at 85 Fury >>>>>>> Tanker

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A brutes gets past tanker damage when he burps at an enemy.

And yes I still use EM. Because I can't bring myself to delete my main villain.

Prof,

If you're asking how to make Grandville accessible without turning off Geometry Buffers, then yes, you need a new card.

And compared to the 9250, you can get a lot of very cheap cards that you'll be much happier with.

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So if I get this right, there is no plan to get the highest DPS chain for Spine, DB or claw.. simply because they can't compete with the other sets? what if people wanted to get this information? since for example.. I have a spine/regen and a db/wp scrapper... I know I could use this, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

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Slapping in all the primaries now, EH.

I also think I'm going to yank the secondary buffs completely.

On that, I will need high end ST attack chains for mace and axe.

And DB! With associated combo information.

All three charts show fire being the big winner with lethal the loser.

Suck it, scrappers!

...

waitaminute... that's mean. Good thing we get crits!

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Oooh for cones, I may have to rethink my Flashing Steel slotting. It'd be a great time to switch up to 5 purps and that.

Oh man I want to go home and play with builds now.

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I'd suggest putting those in Golden Dragonfly, rather than Flashing Steel.

-Res procs are really best against hard targets like bosses, EBs, AVs and GMs, since they're the ones that will stay up long enough for the -res to go to work. Flashing Steel is a minion shredder, and a little -res on targets which are either dead or gonna die in another hit anyway, doesn't have much impact.

It might be optimal for boss farming though, if that's something you're into.

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Once I swap out shockwave for eviscerate, I'll put the Glad -DR in evisc.

It'ss too bad that using eviscerate in an ST attack chain would seriously hurt the overall damage output. At least that's what my gut tells me. The persistent 15% chance to crit + the -DR proc might make it ok.

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Let buff ATs buff, you should focus on punching faces.

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Aye. And this is why I choose tough/weave instead of aid other/aid self.

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Hmm, you think that'll result in bannination? Guess I'll take it down, I use it on most forums that I frequent.

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I will admit to some level of sadness at this action.

I agree with Danny Elfman.

Had a thought about this thread last night that I figured I should share. I haven't read the thread in its entirety so this may have been brought up.

Take a couch potato and a marathon runner. Have them both run 2 miles. If they weigh the same and run at the same speed, they will burn the same number of calories.

Only one of them will be puking at the end of it.

Same goes for the game.

A blaster is a blaster because he is more efficient at turning energy into damage than a defender is.

A scrapper is more efficient at turning energy into damage than a tank is.

A tank is more efficient at using his energy to mitigate damage than a scrapper is.

This is why we have AT modifiers.

This is why a blast should have the same base damage, the same base end cost and the same base recharge.

DM Smite:
1.32 damage
6.864 end
6 second recharge

I just double checked and those values are constant amongst brute, scrapper and tank.

This is as it should be.

Several responses:

I am ignoring procs.

Chaos_String, I did use your chain of HS, Hack, Disem, Hack. Being able to stick the Gladiator -DR in HS to stack with the Achiles' Heel -DR will definitely boost your DPS to nasty levels. Who's going to hate on a 40% dam-res debuff?

So there's no calling you out, there, man. I didn't want to go through the hassle of adding every possible proc that could be added to every attack chain.

HelinCarnate:
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So what happens when you hit soul drain around all those mobs and they eventually die off?

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DM falls lower and lower. As the 10 versus 3 chart showed, DM dropped to the middle of the pack when it only had 3 enemies feeding SD.


Everyone, I'm not out to prove anything one way or the other with this. I can add all the other primaries in.

I can yank AAO and choose SR as the secondary. (Although I'm not sure what the point would be.) Part of me doesn't want to bother with the other secondaries at all due to knowing that /FA can certainly add a lot of damage, but it has to take acrobatics in order to stand next to a pylon without getting knocked on its backside. (2 -KB procs isn't enough) And that rather kills any effectiveness. But I'll probably do it anyway because I am trying to find a way to make my em/fa brute more effective than he is now.

Other items of note not accounted for:
Time to cast Buildup, Soul Drain, Active Defense
Soul Drain might be a wash because it does damage

As mentioned, I'm not taking IO procs into account and we all know the increased effectiveness they provide.

If someone could create a tool that would let me pop in an attack chain and turn on or off buffs including every available proc and taking into account global and enhanced recharge, I'd use the crap out of it. But I haven't found that tool yet.

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Me, too, Billz.


On that note, you haven't said anything sig-worthy in like 24 hours. Can you get on that? Kthx.

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dude... I'm working DPS chain calculations... I can't handle that kinda pressure.