Bad_Influence

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While that is true, they do make you level a bit before PVP, and you have to engage in PVE to level and get into the PVP zones so technically haven't they done just what you are suggesting?

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In the case of PvP, yes.


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To be a "proper" introduction to the game a person should not show a new player only one kind of content that prevents them from learning about the rest.

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The fundamental dishonesty in most of the AE & PL whining is that they somehow PREVENT people from doing something else.

They don't.

The rest of the game is still there- if they WANT to learn how to navigate zones, if they WANT to explore story arcs, that functionality still exists.

If it doesn't seem appealing to them, that isn't the player's fault.

Giving players options means the decision is theirs.
If the devs prefer that players first 'play through' the game's legacy content they should 'insist' via the rules of the game.

The devs proud pre-release statement that we'd be able to level from 1-50 via AE should give pause to those insisting legacy content ought to be the primary focus of incoming players.

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You are right in general, but this was in regards to one story about a guy and his wife. He is introducing her to the game and is her guide. He is leaving out massive portions of the game to the point that if she wanted to take that character and join another team she would be at a large disadvantage in regards to navigation.

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Does she not have a map?!! How did all of us learn how to get around when new?! We used our maps and waypoints. This is not rocket science, people.

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I would prefer to see a more sensible Endurance model. Make armor toggles run at a bare minimum until they're being used. If you've got an armor that protects against Fire/Cold, and you're not taking very much Fire/Cold damage, then your rate of consumption should be low. Against Fire/Cold enemies (say, Circle of Thorns at certain levels) then it should go up. Throw a Ball Lightning against 1 guy, and it drains 1 target's worth of Endurance.

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I like this, it makes sense.

I would also like to have the amount of END Sprint uses drastically lowered. Later on I don't care, but at level 6 even if you have it on, you're crawling. Its not anywhere near worthy of the amount of END it uses.

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Ah, you throw away one of the best tools in a set, and then complain about the way others build their characters.

Defender
18.75% tohit defbuff (enhaceable to ~30% with SO)
37.5% damage debuff

Corr 15% tohit and 30% damage debuff
MM 11.25% tohit and 22.5% damage debuff

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That's nice. DN is still gone and it is staying gone; when something creates more hassle for me than it does benefit, its outta here.

You'll have a legitimate complaint when I'm on teams or in here saying "Man, where is my ST debuff! I need to get me one of those!"... but I refuse to go pick it up.

Remember, my original point was: people are free to build how they want. Just don't come begging to me when [general] you is hamstrung by your choices.

Not having Darkest Night hardly hamstrings me, trust me. Besides this changes depending on who you are talking to: last week I was on a team and when the leader found out I did not have Dark Pit, the castigation began.

Leader: "WHAT you do not have Dark Pit! Best power in the game, I need you to have that!"

Leader's pet player: "OMG I would never ever run a Defender without Dark Pit, it is a Dark's foundation attack!11"

Me: "You two are the first who have had a single good thing to say about Dark Pit in my three years of playing this game. I'm serious."

[Both together]: "REALLY!?? Everyone we know and their little brother picks up Dark Pit FIRST THING! Why... [snip rant]"

.... can't please all the people all the time.

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The point is that people who decline to address their END issues in some manner or another have lost their right to complain about it. They shouldnt be panhandling for blues.

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If I were to team with you, which I very rarely PuG, You wouldn't hear anything from me about needing Inspirations, unless I needed one to convert to an awaken, or something similar. Even then, I probably wouldn't ask for one. I'd just take my Stamina-less character to the hospital. I would probably get agrivated that you (the metephorical team in general, not you specifically) keeps killing the anchor for my debuffs.

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There is no sense getting upset about that; its the reason my Dark/dark Corr respec'ed out of Darkest night and why my three Dark/dark Defenders [yes, I know....] refused to pick it up.

1. Team makes a beeline for my anchor every time. There is no known cure for this syndrome.

2. DN draws a simply incredible amount of aggro.

*RESPEC*

Problem solved.

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...still coming? Inquiring minds want to know.

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I'd bet not; we have been teased about this almost since I started playing this game, and nary a peep have we heard of anything substantial regarding this.

The metaphorical boy has cried "wolf!" 1000 times too many about this tempest in a teapot; it goes in one ear and out the other now.

I will believe we are getting it when I see it on Test.

But the point, Ironblade, is not whether or not any of us thinks Stamina is necessary. Anyone who does not want Fitness is free to not pick it up.

The point is that people who decline to address their END issues in some manner or another have lost their right to complain about it. They shouldnt be panhandling for blues.

I need my blues, or at least always keep 3-4 in my tray just in case. I don't give them away, because inspirations drop like rain in this game for everyone; it should never be an issue, except in very special instances like the final mission of a SF. Some people act like other players should be their personal reserve of blues.

Rather than see Stamina made inherent, I really think some of the END required by certain powers needs to be looked at; especially damage AoEs. These have an absolutely ridiculous END cost; especially for newer players who may innocently pick them up at the levels they're first offered at.

The END cost of many if not most shields is beyond heavy, at levels where you cannot really do much about it. This effectively hamstrings melee people at low levels.

It can even be a problem for upper-level people. Just ask my /dark Scrapper.

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Stamina is basically a prerequisite on all of my builds, including those with Quick Recovery. Anyone who doesn't take it, and expects the team to compensate should have their harddrive melted, and their subscription account be Generic'd, along with all of their characters.

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Ditto.

I really don't care if other people don't want to plan for their Endurance issues; I don't have to play their character. The thing that torques my gears is the continual begging for blues/Radiant Aura/SB or any other power someone else has, so they can get out of having to pick "boring" powers that would allow them to be self-sufficient LIKE THE REST OF US.

No Stamina? No End. reducers? Cool. But I don't want to hear one single peep out of their keyboards about how they're always out of End. Because that is the metaphorical bed that they made for their character, and they can lie in it. No whining allowed.

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No, because it's also assumed, Munki, that you would be able to form your question in a reasonably intelligent manner.

Or, far more likely, you'd *come here* and find out on the Wiki before asking at all.

[/ QUOTE ] I would go to Paragonwiki before to find out info like I mentioned before asking a random person or broadcasting, but not everybody will. Besides, wiki's can be wrong. For example, while trying to find Ice Mistral last night I used paragonwiki. The coordinate numbers were correct, except the last number out of the three was -2210 instead of 2210(btw since I have no experience editing wikis I didn't touch it, so somebody should check it out).

I had to ask somebody to finally find her. The person could have assumed I was being stupid and been a dick, but he just answered my question. To me that is a much better response than assuming I should know it or should have found the asnwer from Paragonwiki(since it was wrong) than being a dick because I have a bunch of vet badges.

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The vast majority - really - of players I talk to in-game have never heard of Paragonwiki. I'm serious.

The vast majority who ask a badge-related question in Broadcast and I say, "Go to www.badgehunter.com and download the in-game maps, to know where everything is," have never heard of the site and are unsure what I even mean by that. "DL whut?"

I have had ONE person thank me for telling them about the in-game maps and how easy they make things. One. The vast majority of them laugh and go their way, as though even pulling down their map to look for an icon is far too much bother for them.

My supposition is that a tiny minority of players browse these forums on a regular basis.

So, last night a guy was in IP asking where the respec contact was. Instead of shouting "LOL LAZY N00b! Find her yourself!" .... I just told him. I will usually share what I know unless the person is acting like a complete idiot.

I think any supposition that the majority of the playerbase is accessing tools used by experienced forumites is gravely wrong. Most people have never heard of them; most people never come to these forums at all. When I tell them to come here, go to their AT's board and look at the Build Guides to see how others rated a power-choice they are contemplating, its like I'm speaking Latin or something.

Most people just don't do that. So, agreeing with what you're saying here.

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I guess players might just see how much there is to this game if they take a new player that just got or downloaded this game and take them from level 1 and guide them through some early learning curve moments and then watch them go.

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I am jaded, and so I say unto thee: Why throw pearls before swine? because most new people lately are the furthest thing from wanting advice, they want you to *give* them stuff [whether it be xp, cash, wings, you name it] and never trouble them with how to get it themselves.

That is what YOU are for! So shut up and fork over the Demonic wings already!

[heaves a large and longsuffering sigh...] I know that sounds ill-tempered, but I silently endured a conversation in Broadcast tonight villainside, on why all new toons rolled should be Fire/kin Corruptors because nothing else is invited to teams these days. Its like the stupidity factor in the game has increased by a factor of 10,000.

Why take it? because esp. over in CoV, I may want to ground a flier; usually a Longbow Eagle. They love to fly off when you do them any damage; Air Sup knocks them on their keisters where I can tear them to pieces at my leisure.

It is also good for flummoxing bosses who cannot get around the knockdown animation to get more attacks off.

Or I may be hovering on a ranged-attack sort of character who is being harrassed by Freak Stunners. One Air Sup and they're out of melee-range until I get around to giving 'em what they deserve.

Why take Air Sup...? My question is, "how do you people who DON'T take it, do without it?" its uses are literally legion

Well, but this is a good point. Why make ANYone redraw weapons of any kind when using Air Superiority?

Have whatever it is remain in/on the character's hand. Same end result, no redraw and this would be wonderful.

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Something is not adding up:
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Fire guy: Can someone combine some stuff and make some blues for me?
Bad: leave a slot open, inspirations will drop. Plus you get badges for inspirations dropped in AE missions.
Fire guy: really? Cool! Can you make me some blues?
Bad: No.
Time passes....
Fire guy: Anybody got blues? I need them bad.
Bad: Right click on one, if you got three of a kind you can make a blue.
Fire guy: You can?
Bad: Yes.
Fire guy: LOL! Cool! I had no idea you could do that!

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Yeah, that's the very FIRST thing that I noticed too.

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That actually got said, though. I was a bit puzzled by it myself, but these days I am harder and harder to surprise in-game. [sigh]

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Man... This takes me back to my Dark/Dark scrapper days.

P.S. I was NOT aware that my first scrapper would suck the life out of an endurance bar like mosquitoes to a blood.

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I am running a Broadsword/dark Scrapper right now. He's pretty damn hard on the END issues, but he has Fitness and he is heavily slotted for END reduction - and I'm not done slotting for that yet either. [He's level 38.5 now].

I like him a lot, dark armor is one of the coolest looking sets in the game. And once you get a -KB IO slotted, its almost bearable to play. I won't be rolling any more, though. I probably burned through at least 18,000 tickets trying to get a -KB off of a Bronze reward roll. I had multiple parts of incredibly rare sets dropping - everything but that. I was close to despair.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, I think we really do have a bunch of "AE PL babies" running around right now; but I am looking foreward to them either wising up and learning how to play in this game [optimal outcome], or returning to WoW. Newb-itude is reigning supreme these days; ugh.

.... Why can't they have us leave Claws drawn while we use Air Superiority! Would this truly break anything....? What is the point of making us redraw every damn time, its so annoying.

/endrant.

The scene: an AE team, everyone is autoexemped up to 50. On the team is a level 32ish Fire/fire Blaster. Please keep in mind that Bad has her own level 35 Fire/fire Blaster, so is aware of how these characters roll. [Bad's Blaster was not on the team at the time.]

Said Blaster on the team is always running on 2 ticks of END. I don't pay this much mind, since its his blue bar not mine, until....

Fire guy [not his real name]: Man, i need to slot me some of those endurance reducing thingys!

time passes...

Fire guy: Wow, I have no endurance lol.

time passes....

Fire guy: I have no blue bar lol, I need an insta-getyourendback power lol! Why dont they make that?!

[Bad pulls up his powers-list. Sure enough, he's got most of his primary and secondary good stuff that he's of a level to get, & a travel power. Not the beginnings of Fitness to be seen anywhere.]

Bad: Why don't you pick up the Fitness pool? It'll really help you out.

Fire guy: LOL! I wanna blow stuff up!

Time passes...

Fire guy: Anyone got any blues?

Time passes...

Fire guy: Can someone combine some stuff and make some blues for me?

Bad: leave a slot open, inspirations will drop. Plus you get badges for inspirations dropped in AE missions.

Fire guy: really? Cool! Can you make me some blues?

Bad: No.

Time passes....

Fire guy: Anybody got blues? I need them bad.

Bad: Right click on one, if you got three of a kind you can make a blue.

Fire guy: You can?

Bad: Yes.

Fire guy: LOL! Cool! I had no idea you could do that!

Time passes....

Fire guy: I got no endurance! This is keeping me from blowing stuff uP! Damn!

Bad: Why not pick up Fitness?

Fire guy: LOL! That's boring. I wanna NUKE STUFF.

Bad: Having Stamina helps you nuke stuff a lot faster, trust me.

Fire guy: LOL! I'm not wasting power picks on stamina, be serious. Hey you guys, can you make me some blues? I made some but I need more.

..... And on it went through an hour-long mission. the moral of the story: if you dont want to "waste power picks" on Fitness, that is your lookout.

BUT DON'T ASK OTHERS FOR BLUES.

/headdesk

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True Story.

About a week ago, I logged onto our 3rd account. I joined a team and was happily putzing around. When I get a tell from a "Vet".

/t Idiot: OMG YOU BOUGHT MONEY FROM A RMTer.
/t Me: Um, what?
/t Idiot: YOU HAVE SETS AND ONLY 3 MONTH BADGE.
/t Me: This is my 3rd acct...
/t Idiot: I just petitioned you for breaking the EULA.
/t Me: I just petitioned you for being stupid.
/t Idiot: What?

I quit and logged. I really hate Vets some times.

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....Having sets is petitionable??? It breaks the EULA? Only so many sets are allowed per vet badge?! What...?

Man, learn something new every day. LOL. It must be such a hoot to be a game-master in an online MMO.

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And once more for the record:

We are not 'bashing newbies'.

We are *bashing NOOBS*. there is a DIFFERENCE. It's been stated several times before now, I suggest you actually read those posts about the clear and obvious differences between a new player and a noob.

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Bashing *anyone* is never okay. And that was *my* point.

Have a good one.

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But you called us hypocrites and cast aspersions on our motivation for forming teams.

The lesson for you here to is not to engage in a thread loaded for bear. You seem reasonable, but your initial post stirred Zekiran, and she's never been one that even I would mess with unless I really had my [censored] together. Bad move...

Aside from that, your point is taken, but the tone you've taken isn't likely to garner any friends.

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Oh, please.

I never fail to be amused at attempts to make one or the other forum-member look like a bad-a** who must be bowed to, scraped to and generally propitiated with all due respect/fear, lest said member Get All Medieval upon one.

This is an online forum, and me.... I don't bow to anyone. Maybe you do, which is your choice & have at it. But not everyone is going to do that. Anyone with an ego that needs propitiation on an Online forum is a pretty sad case, to tell the truth. I'm not here to salve anyone's ego.

As was previously mentioned, friends like some people here, I don't need. I would actually question myself were I to gain their [worthless, because we're all online] approval.

I see that mileage varies on that point, but c'est la forums.

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Bad_Influence wrote:
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QR: What becomes a legend most, I mean what deserves a kick the most....?

Answer: TANKS WHO REFUSE TO TANK! These are few things more annoying [rockin' the aura might be one of them].

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^
this

There is NOTHING in game that gets under my skin quite like a timid tank. (Not even rewdboi jerkholes) Why the heck would you play that archtype if you don't want to be the one to jump in first?

[removes cathartic rant]

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Becuase you're a noob, and choose tha class that has the best survivability withotu really understanding anything about the strategic setup of the classes, or MMOs in general. Altenratively because you're slightly less incompetant, but you are accustomed to less survivable character types and although you know that you know intelectually that a tank should be able to effortlessly withstand the punishment that would kill your blaster, you haven't yet acclimated your less conscious play behavior to that fact.

Or was that rhetorical question?

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This is just me: I avoided melee characters for almost two years, because I did not want to take point. Ever.

As I matured as a player, I began to experiment with melee and now find it highly enjoyable, unless teamed with an idiot who thinks Speed Boost in a CoT cave is just the end-all of all possible fun.

My point here is that if one is uncomfortable playing melee.... play something else. Both the player and their team will be much happier.

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Also, tanks, as I so often remind people, are merely an inadequate substitute for proper control. ;D

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

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In three years of playing, I have yet to see the control that can take the place of damage and/or shielding. Sorry, have not seen it, and I have been on both sides of the equation.

ESPECIALLY late-game, when everyone and their little brother is sporting purple triangles.

Control is a great thing. I like it a lot. A substitute for a good point-person.... er..... no.

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Do you know what is really "a REAL dick thing to do?" Continually going AFK during a TF, that's what. "Discontinuing" for 2/3 of the TF and periodically logging in to see how things are going? That qualifies too.

People who wish to avoid being booted off of TFs would do well to not do this stuff. Blueside it is extremely common, esp. the AFK "I'll just put me on follow, k?" thing. Infuriatingly common.

To be honest I wish more people applied a little negative reinforcement a la a well-timed kick. People can and do get away with everything, while the rest of us do all the work! FAIL

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Ya' know what serves just as good a purpose? Kicking them when it becomes a real issue. Going AFK for most of any TF isn't cool, but just for 3-4 minutes a time? Well, that's a bit harsh.

Kicking someone before the TF is over serves nothing more as griefing, and acting as something akin to retroactive punishment.

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Disagree. Not fighting with the rest of the team on a TF [especially] is what *I* call "griefing." No one said anything about kicking if someone goes AFK for "3-4 minutes." When people start thinking about a kick is if someone is AFK 3-4 minutes, every five minutes. This gets old!

Kicking when it first becomes evident that someone is a leech is certainly warranted; but denying them rewards that the rest of the team earned without them is certainly valid strategy. Its a little meaner, true, but easily avoided by being present for duty when joining a team.

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Talnar: we take down romi 3 times then i kick them both, sent a petition siting there behavour as the cause. 2 min later when they fig out what has happend they start sending me tells again saying that they are going to petition me for kicking them and more homophobic names. i block them, they hop onto another account and start it again. second petition

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Truly, epic lulz. You know, it would almost be less effort for them to just have been doing what they were supposed to be doing.

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My rule of thumb is this.
I Run alot of MoSTFs, LGTF , ITFs i usally build my team around what will get the job done fastest and easiest. So ill build my teams with certain ATs and powersets. If i invited u cuz ur a arch/emp fender and i askd youon team to heal, dont sit around blasting, if i wanted a blaster id of invited 1. If i get a constant AFKer, i eamn 3-4 times for 5mins eash or they just put me on follow for 10mins, i let them continue TF. Than @ final mission befor completion like befor i kill LR, or Rom or even last ambush in gen room u get a big fat KICK

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So, if someone isn't playing the way you want them to, you'll lead them along, and kick them before they can get any rewards.

That's a REAL dick thing to do.

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Do you know what is really "a REAL dick thing to do?" Continually going AFK during a TF, that's what. "Discontinuing" for 2/3 of the TF and periodically logging in to see how things are going? That qualifies too.

People who wish to avoid being booted off of TFs would do well to not do this stuff. Blueside it is extremely common, esp. the AFK "I'll just put me on follow, k?" thing. Infuriatingly common.

To be honest I wish more people applied a little negative reinforcement a la a well-timed kick. People can and do get away with everything, while the rest of us do all the work! FAIL

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As for veteran players, I really don't give a green [censored] if you PL or not. I have several 50's, I've played dozens, if not hundreds of alts, and y'know what? I'm tired of the 1-20 grind. I don't enjoy it. I enjoy Stamina and SO-level enhancements. So if someone offers my lowbie a chance to get there sooner, you bet your sweet bippy I'll take it.

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Preach!

QR: What becomes a legend most, I mean what deserves a kick the most....?

Answer: TANKS WHO REFUSE TO TANK! These are few things more annoying [rockin' the aura might be one of them].

Was on an AE team the other night with a tank who was firmly in the back, doing nothing. This was a level 30+ Tank, mind you. This was all well & good until our leading Tank d'ced.

Teammate #1: "Okay Shy Little Girl [not her real name], you're up! "

Tank: "ummmmmm.... no thank you."

Teammate #2: "hey, *you're* the tank now. We got no one else."

Tank: "Errr...... no..... I'm new at this."

Me: "But you're level 35, how can you be new?" [although I already knew how, dear reader, trust me]

Tank: "Stop being mean to me, you guys."

Teammate #3: "Here, I'll tell you how to do it. First you.... [explaination of basic Tank behavior follows]."

Teammate #4: "Stop being mean to her you guys! She's NEW!"

Me: "Look, that's not being mean, we are trying to help her. Because trust me if for instance she gets onto a TF and refuses to Tank, then she IS gonna hear some truly mean stuff and this'll seem like nothing."

Tank: "Stop it you guys I don't want to."

teammate #3: "Here, try it with this next bunch and we won't let you die, promise."

Tank: "I don't want to."

Me: "You might want to roll a non-Tank character then, for real. You'll get a lot less flak."

Teammate #4: "STOP IT, YOU GUYS ARE THE PROBLEM!!! SHE DOESN'T WANT TO NOW EVERYONE SHUT IT!!"

Me: *quit TF*

I am not one to tell other people how they ought to level, promise. Level how you want. But if you get PLed to whatever level and refuse to play your AT out of fear, if I am leading the team I will kick you, and if I'm not I will leave.

I will leave because my staying enables your mediocrity, and I'm not here to do that. I have endless patience with people doing their best to learn, but if you don't wanna learn then me and you are gonna part ways. If you will not fulfill the duties your AT brings to the table then you are wasting our/my time. I'm not getting through a two hr. TF only to have it fail because you're unwilling to play your part.

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Bad Influence? Even after I made a statement that I'm emotionally distressed and am out of sorts you -still- felt the need to goad me into posting. So knowing that I was hurt and upset you attempted to goad further frustration and pain out of me.

You're a very -very- bad person. Please: Put me on ignore. Because I'll never hear another thing you say on the forums. And I'd really prefer not to have your baseless and vile negativity chasing me through various threads.

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1. As a veteran of many a flame-war, some of them far more intense than this little dust-up you're having with the 'goat here, I can tell you this: posting that a war has left you feeling "emotionall distressed and out of sorts" is really, really poor policy.

It makes you look weak, because it affirms that your opponent[s] has really hit you in a tender spot. I advise that you not do this.

In other news, I am not "backing [Nethergoat] up." I've never noticed that he needed help getting his point across, whether or not I agreed with it.

2. I'm a "very -very- bad person"?! Honey, you would not know a real very, very bad person if he or she snuck out of an alleyway and koshed you on the head with the butt of a sawed-off shotgun and then stole your lunch-money. You ain't SEEN bad. Trust me.

If you are this sensitive to people disagreeing with you, I'm not sure how well you'll do online in general. You'd better be bolted together very, very tightly or people online will have you shaking, rattling and rolling before you're out of the starting gate.

And for god's sake, stay off of Usenet. If you can't handle these forums, you're nowhere near ready for a true no-holds-barred contest of wills.

As for "baseless and vile negativity"..... I can only say, in a very disgusted tone of voice: GROW UP.

Hyperbole FTL:
Bad

[p.s. unless its MY hyperbole. My hyperbole is always good ]

Man, Nethergoat is *still* in here trouncing the fuzzy pink Cthulhu. This is a record!

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fuzzy pink Cthulhu: If you're going to continue with this method of action PLEASE Put me on ignore. Never respond to any comment I ever make, and live your life happily without me. Because I'm sick of people telling me how I should feel. How I should think. Which is -exactly- what you're doing.

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Well you're busily telling everyone else exactly how they should behave, think and feel [and in multiple threads, no less] so my question is, "How do you like it?"