Aura_Familia

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Nothing in this game needs to be balanced around the ability for a lvl 4 to be able to easily team with his lvl 50 buddy.

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But it needs to be balanced around your dislike of a particular type of broadcast spam in Atlas?

The game has been designed to accommodate people who want to play together, regardless of character level. First it was sidekicking, then came the exemplar system, the GM code, auto-exemping, and so on, right up to MA's level adjustments.

I really don't think the developers are going to do a complete 180 on that design philosophy, just because you can't find a "sewer team" in Atlas Park.

Do you remember a time when there wasn't any such thing as a sewer team? I do. There's nothing saying the practice can't vanish as quickly as it appeared. Given the purpose of sewer teams--to blow through those early levels as fast as possible--I wouldn't be surprised if MA makes the routine obsolete, with or without the involvement of 50s.

But, assuming sewer teams aren't going to go the way of street hunting in Brickstown, you have options, as a player, to deal with broadcast spam and find the kind of team you want. You can separate broadcast from other channels by putting it in its own tab. You can then filter it with /ignore. You can use /request for your sewer teams. You can even utilize server-focused globals for team building and the server forum for scheduling.

If you've done all that and still can't get that sewer team going? Well, maybe it's time to entertain the possibility that the practice is just on the way out. If that's what's happening, driving 50s out of the Atlas AE won't change it.

Ultimately, if you're expecting the developers to cater to your convenience and narrow play preference at the expense of the convenience of the broader player base, well... don't hold your breath.

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Several good ideas here. I especially like (and will use) the one about putting broadcast in its own tab.

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Interesting that more don't know this. Every single channel in this game can be filtered. Could have sworn it's in the manual that comes with the game.

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I think farm, and lff should be added to the profanity list.

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When they add lfsewer team and costume contest starting sure.

Cause I find those to be inane drivel also.

What, you mean they don't decide what isn't and isn't allowed in b-cast based on folks that are too lazy to not know how to go just put folks on ignore or simply ignore b-cast drivel?

You don't say.

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Oh, and Power Customisation now please!

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I have a feeling that we'll be seeing this sooner than later, based on some of the things being posted around these parts and the homepage.

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It always amazed me that they wouldn't think players wanted it. I mean, they knew we would want to customize the appearance of our characters, and gave us the most amazing character design system extant, then dropped the ball with customizing the powers themselves...

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I agree with you on that. It probably wasn't the best long-term decision that they could make. However, it's the one that they did make. I'm not trying to say it was the right one by a long shot, just that it was the one that was made.

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Keep in mind back in the day most mmos didn't have nearly the customization that COH was putting forth for the market.

I'm sure if you said to some developers of mmos back then "why not allow every single player to be able to have a unique look to their avatar?" they would have looked at you as if you had two heads.

Developing an mmo in 2009 vs 2001 are VERY different eras.

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As for thrown weapon customization ... if you went as far as to come up with new animation schemes for thrown weapons, using the current weapon customization the player has selected would be the easy part to implement in all this (its just a skin difference ... one that's already made).

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From what we've been told by the Dev BAB, it's not that easy. It's basically power customization at that point, instead of just costume customization, which is what Weapon Customization is. Weapon Customization is nothing like Power customization. Being able to swap out one costume piece for another is one thing. Changing out power graphics based on those costume choices is another. Again, it's the reason that Spines isn't customizable: the images that form the body can be swapped out, but the powers like Impale can't be easily swapped out. So, even if you made the spikes metal, you'd still be throwing a banana.


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That just sounds like bad coding (or lack of forethought) which could very well be (happens often in MMOs). From a coding standpoint, there should be no difference from "power" to "costume" customization *except* with regards to differences in animations (as we discussed) as that is the only real difference (standing graphic (or meshed graphic in the case of a costume piece) versus an animated one).

Having said that, I bet it would be easier then BAB (who is fairly new to the team?) thinks if some thought were really put into it.

You'll notice two different types of devs (goes for most programmers btw) ... one that says everything is hard (with the idea that it gives then auto padding by just saying that and possibly can kill an idea in its tracks rather than having to work on it (programmers are lazy)), and the one that says everything is easy (which is usually guilty of speaking before thinking).

But I'm fairly certain in his definition of "power customization" he really meant new animation.

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BAB is NOT AT ALL fairly new to the team.

Go read his posts please.

EDIT: I was actually going to link the posts here, but I can't find it.

I hope they weren't purged.

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I agree, some sets are easier to do this for than others. However, these sets were recently given ranged attacks in the MA. Granted, they're not great in many cases, but they are something to start with, at least. As you say, the weapon sets are the hardest to come up with something for. In my opinion, it just requires a little imagination.



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This is a horrible example to use. Some of the ranged attacks actual make some of those critters ridiculous. I would not be looking at custom critters for examples of balance.

And yes BALANCE trumps imagination. Sorry.

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They make the characters ridiculous because they didn't bother to balance the damage output (for the custom critters in general OR for the ranged powers specifically). If the powers and NPCs were balanced, there would be no problem.

All I was saying is that, worst case, Dual Blades would be tossing Shurikens (which I consider FAR from ideal, but this would be the worst case scenario, after all).

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If we all got to VOTE on which powers got what, sure. Authors are currently complaining about some of the choices they made.

If they were truly balanced with us in mind, I can see the ranged powers being horribly gimped from the get go.

Case in point, look at the damage on some of the RANGED Patron Pool Powers.

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What if a series of ranged power pools were created that could be selected like any of the others? They would have less effect than similar powers in existing primaries and secondaries.

As an example:

Energy Powers:
Energy Bolts (L6) 30 damage
Energy Blast (L6) 50 damage
Energy Torrent (L14) 30 damage
Exploding Blast (L20) 30 damage

These numbers are based on Mids', and would put the effect a bit below even Defender damage. Accuracy, endurance and so on would be the same as usual.


If there were power sets like this for several power effects, you could have your Broadsword guy toss Flares or Ice Bolts or whatever suited your concept. Do you think this could be balanced? I mean, if it's available to everyone, no one has an advantage. Do you think it would be too much? Are we treading into Tankmagery here?

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Depends if the devs have a system in place to create power pools at those levels. Don't know how hard or easy that would be to do.

Personally, other than that I have no objection to it.

Ofcourse creating them and then balancing them with the existing primary/secs would probably not be a trivial amount of work.

I would NEVER choose ANY of those powers, so they better make a fire set, a rad set, a sonic set, etc etc. There's THAT.

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I agree, some sets are easier to do this for than others. However, these sets were recently given ranged attacks in the MA. Granted, they're not great in many cases, but they are something to start with, at least. As you say, the weapon sets are the hardest to come up with something for. In my opinion, it just requires a little imagination.



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This is a horrible example to use. Some of the ranged attacks actual make some of those critters ridiculous. I would not be looking at custom critters for examples of balance.

And yes BALANCE trumps imagination. Sorry.

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As for thrown weapon customization ... if you went as far as to come up with new animation schemes for thrown weapons, using the current weapon customization the player has selected would be the easy part to implement in all this (its just a skin difference ... one that's already made).

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From what we've been told by the Dev BAB, it's not that easy. It's basically power customization at that point, instead of just costume customization, which is what Weapon Customization is. Weapon Customization is nothing like Power customization. Being able to swap out one costume piece for another is one thing. Changing out power graphics based on those costume choices is another. Again, it's the reason that Spines isn't customizable: the images that form the body can be swapped out, but the powers like Impale can't be easily swapped out. So, even if you made the spikes metal, you'd still be throwing a banana.

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While if a ranged attack were ever implemented I think the devs would take the short cut with weapons and just use an already existing generic equivalent thrown weapon (i.e. spikes, stars, discs, etc ...) and the already existing animations for them.

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I would agree with you on that.

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There's a HUGE post on Power Cust made by BAB. Unless it was recently purged some folks posting need to READ it FIRST. And one of those folks isn't Aett.

BAB's has THOROUGHLY explained why doing something such as making the spines on your body match what is thrown, IS NOT trivial. Go read up folks.

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My opinion of the Shard - beautiful, oodles of potential, but empty as heck. Throw in a few story contacts in there, rework the taskforces to incorporate the post-Statesman game improvements, and if you can get away with it, throw in optional PvP in all the Shard zones.

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Optional, as in the default is ALWAYS off unless you choose to toggle it on, then sure.

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and no one forces you to do those types of missions. enough is enough already.

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No, but I'm forced to spend 15+ minutes looking for a damn mission in order to NOT do a farm in the AE. It's completely ridiculous.

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Hyperbole.

I can easily find non-farm missions in the MA. And there are thread after thread of story focused arc reviews here on the forums.

Again, hyperbole.

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... iditoic ... STUPID ... WAHHHH ... get the F out ...

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This kind of attitude and these kinds of words have no place in a civil discussion, no matter how heated that discussion gets.

It's also a lame form of debate, filled with sound and fury ... (and you know how the rest of that expression goes)!

You are better than this. And your arguments are better than this. Please try again ... but without all the belittling and name calling.

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Sure:

It's a terrible suggestion that destroys one of the best and most innovative features of COH. The one the defined this mmo as one the breaks the mold: the sk system.

It's as a terrible a suggestion as level locking PI and Grandville, which aren't at all meant to be hazzard zones.

The devs intend for folks to be able to go from 1-50 in the MA, which basically NECESSITATES the MA being in Atlas.

Folks that don't like the key feature of the game: that lowbies and highbies can team without restrictions need to find another mmo, as that feature is NOT going away.

Better?

EDIT: Further more there are many options to alleviate people's "I can't stand the b-cast spam" problem without destroying COH's teaming. Cause it most certainly is their problem.

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Actually the moment you begin to use the term weaksauce you have condemmed your point to the dustbin.

What you fail to realize is its the devs feature and they don't want the 50 to "have" to ex down they want the choice to be the "players" to ex down or sk up. Restrictive changes just because make no sense.

Beat the idea to death because that is where it will ultimately end up dead. Cheers.

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It's an iditoic idea that flys in the face of the sk system. Having to force a lowbie to go to a highbie zone is a non-starter. This isn't the idiotic days of evercrack.

It's as STUPID a suggestion as the ol "level lock PI and Grandville cause I can't filter out my b-cast channels and I'm a baby and need hand holding from the devs, WAHHHH" ideas were.

The Devs DO want lowbies team with highbies and vice versa.

End of story. If folks can't get over that they need to get the F out and find a new game. End of story.

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Negative. Trust me, I've had this happen. The GMs will literally not look at the content of your arc unless it's been locked and you've either prodded CS about it or you flag your arc for review. They will do nothing at all if left on their own.

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How many complaints does it take to get locked, or looked at by GMs? My Dev Choice arc has 8 or 9 complaints now (most of them aren't real complaints... the "complainer" didn't fill in any details so it's just the default text in the complaint box, and the others are about as laughable as the ones the OP says he got) but to my knowledge it hasn't been locked or anything.

I wonder if DC arcs are exempt from that process, anyway...

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Would not surprise me that DC is exempt. Pointless to have a CS review it if a FREAKING DEV has looked at it and said it's a-okay.

Anyone petitioning a Dev's Choice arc is a moron.

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My line of thinking keeps coming back to the premise that power customization is 2 issues worth of work... which is about how much work I'd expect to go into a box expansion. It would make even more sense to do it now, what with this other shiny new superhero game coming out boasting power customization from day one.

That said, I'm not going to believe it's actually coming until I see a full blown announcement with NCSoft's logo all over it.

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This.

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Wow that really puts a burden on us. If some guy doesnt like you and hits report.........it gets banned without being looked at .....its on you to deal with customer support. Seems like a new way to grief to me.

I dont know how you get around it, maybe make it so they have to give a full description of WHY it should be banned and customer service MUST email you why it was banned. I think thats fair. If they cant do it.....because of a lack of people to process reports then DONT BAN THEM.

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LOL, I see you see just one of the FAIL points in the policy already. I'll leave it at that.

Some folks joke meters are broken.

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Agreed. And PLers can't miss the mission-entry advert that says "Mission Architect Tip: You can level 1-50 with Mission Architect," or words to that effect. It's a way of saying, "Skip the game content. PL, PL, PL."

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Contrary to some people's interpretation of that statement, I don't think it has anything to do with the devs promoting PLing or farming. Far from it. Many people like to see it that way, but if you look at it more logically, they are merely stating that the MA can be a means to get all the way to level 50, because the wide range of missions available in AE does cover every possible level range. The devs would be have to be stupid to promote something that they have clearly discouraged since MA went live. But, people tend to want to interpret things like that the way they want them to be, which is highly unlikely the way they were meant by the devs at all.

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Best post in the thread.

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6) Many long story arcs are simply plain bad, too challenging, have too many objectives, are using annoying maps and annoying mobs, have too much text , too many ambushes, too many AVs, finally just too much of everything and that makes them pure PITA to run. They get an auto 1 star from me.

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I have seen a bit of this, and I've not even run that much in the MA. And it always seems to happen in the LAST mission. One arc had *60* glowies in it, each on a :15 timer (a PM exchange with the author revealed that as a mistake though, as they weren't meant to be required; otherwise, a good arc).

Did another arc tonight that was fine, no great work of art but was ok. Until the last mission, in which you had to beat versions of:

Vandal
Requiem
Nemesis
Countess Crey
Nosferatu

...and a couple more I forget. There were like eight EBs. I got Vandal down to a sliver, then faceplanted twice, and I decided that I wasn't going to go through that seven more times.

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These faults are not due to the length of an arc but the author not properly marking what can be expected inside.

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Yeah, from the comments I've gotten some authors are shocked that folks low rate their arcs when they put in surprise AV gauntlets in them.

Challenge is fun, but sometimes you DON'T want to deal with that or have the time to.

Going through a 4 or 5 missh arc, only to come through the final missh and not be able to complete it is ALSO enough to make anyone go into a NERD RAGE.

Yep.

Basically the players decide how they want to use the content.

If you are looking for validation of your stories . . . then submit them to a publisher in book or novel or short story format.

Coming here for it is just opening yourself up for disappointment. People have wildly different tastes.

Ex: There are some that love origin stories that show you how a character came to become a hero, and take the player along for the rid.

Personally I HATE those, as I believe the focus should always be on MY character.

Different strokes for different folks.

Interestingly enough this relates to the whole pvper vs pver and badger vs pver debates.

Each group cannot understand how the other can continue to do things that in there eyes aren't fun.

For instance I've heard some pvpers ask "how much pve can you do, seriously?"

And other groups have asked that of pvpers.

The reality is, what you find fun is NOT what someone else finds fun. When we as a playerbase at large finally get that, COx will probably shut down after its 20 year anniversary.

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he was a human? humans have a fairly uniform size

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The lore from what I've assumed that he could pretty much become huge.

Also, would be pretty stupid for him to have the superhero name Atlas if it wasn't something like that.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Atlas

Atlas was one of the early heroes of Paragon City. The Atlas Park zone is named for him, and there is an enormous statue erected in front of City Hall in his honor.

Atlas was one of the first heroes to respond to the Nazi sneak attack against Paragon City on December 7th, 1941. Almost single-handedly, Atlas kept the German attackers from gaining a foothold past Independence Port. It cost him his life, but he held his ground until the Freedom Phalanx arrived.

The statue of Atlas was dedicated by Statesman himself in a ceremony christening the heart of Atlas Park. Many heroes were inspired enough by Atlas's sacrifice to volunteer for the Freedom Phalanx's trek across the Atlantic to help reinforce the Dawn Patrol in England. To this day, Atlas Park is the safest area in Paragon City and many new heroes dedicate themselves to making sure it stays that way.

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You know honestly I'm with the argument against farming, and that this point I wish they'd just remove the AE completely rather than let the game continue as it is, but...

when you're getting out of shape over messages in broadcast, you're the one who has the problem. Broadcast has always been full of dumb junk; if you don't like it, turn broadcast off, or start liberally using your ignore button.

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Not all, but many of the people complaining about the AE farm requests in Atlas broadcast are just mad because they are the same people that used to tell the people complaining about the farm spam in PI they should turn off broadcast or use their ignore feature.

Karma, gotta love it.

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Funny I used to tell folks that if they didn't want to hear pointless arguments, sewer team requests, costume contests, or anything generally non-regular missh team related, they could use ignore and turn off b-cast.

I still do.

/shrug.

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Since Atlas Park is where the majority of new players start the game, the farmers in AE should move elsewhere to prevent this kind of thing from happening. The guy I mentioned above told me he asked if there was anything else to do in the game and someone told him no. He was about to quit because he thought that's all there was to the game.

I know it's never going to happen. The farmers have no reason to move because they don't care if they are annoying people with broadcast spam for farm missions or ruining the game for new players by telling them there is nothing else to do. The worst part is, the new crop of farmers that are telling people there is nothing else to do? Some of them probably believe that because that's what THEY were told.

I avoid Atlas altogether these days unless I HAVE to go there for some reason.

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I would rather see the AE buildings taken out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's. I would really prefer that AE was available at the same time as Ouroboros, but that would probably never happen.

IMO AE is too much of a distraction at the early levels. Let the new players actually learn how to play the game at the same time that they are exposed to the original stories. I'm starting to encounter more and more new players that don't even have a clue about bank missions, detectives and the temp travel powers because they immediately get sucked into AE and before they know it are lvl 16.

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Then you'd have to convince the devs. As they have publicly stated they want folks to be able to use AE from lvl 1.

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Yeah, you'd think those things would have lousy depth perception.

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...

rotfl

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Something tells me I'm not alone on the valuation of his comm skills.

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The fact that he has a reputation among many as being a prevaricator when to the best of my ability to determine even in retrospect none of his public posts nor his PMs to me were either lies or even deliberately misleading statements suggests that at best he should strongly limit public comments to non-controversial subject matter.


As to whether he deserves to be considered among the most influential people in the MMO industry, I'd say the fact that he helped launch a game that is still running (no question that Jack pulled CoH from potential development hell to at least a launchable, if sometimes questionable, state) and probably influencing at least two other titles currently in development (CO and DCUO), and then on top of that is involved with the development and launch of two new MMO titles including a major license one (STO), is probably more than resume enough for that consideration.

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Agreed. I never disagreed with that.

That ofcourse STILL has NOTHING to do with whether one considers him a great communicator or not. Or evil incarnate or not.