_Ilr_

Mitosis is overpowered.
Plz nerf it Devs.


PS: Samus, you lack the proof you begrudge other posters of lacking....in spades. Claiming that your VG is "casual gamers" and had no problem with the ThornTree has nothing to do with right or wrong or Stats because it's still just a judgement call and contributes nothing to this discussion. More-over, you're just "calling posters out" ...which ordinarilly no one would bat an eye at, but these are people who post constructively and aren't provoking anyone intentionally.

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I step up as you say when someone is posting about bugs, is when people make statements like "accuracy isn't working" when all they have to go off of is that they were fighting in this one mission and seemed to miss more than usual. Or attacks seem to be more drainy. Or recharges seem to be less or more. Or whatever. Because 99% of the time, they are wrong. Accuracy isn't nerfed, recharges aren't higher, and endurance usage didn't just go up.

I don't mind people posting bugs, but if someone believes there is a bug, they should test it and get some reliable numbers before getting everyone worked up about things.

I don't think that's too much to ask. If you think you've found a bug, test your bug and make sure what you think is happening is happening.

[/ QUOTE ]


That's one point... But we know Streak-Breaker code exists too. ...And unless it's been "nerfed" a bit, THERE IS a point where Joe-Schmoe with no calculator or Herostats can just count the number of times he missed in a row... and discern that one power may have changed or had an accuracy penalty applied to it.

Now their view might be skewed when their powerset in general runs well above a Base 75% ACC... but even on powers that are supposed to be 75%, you KNOW something's up when you miss more than 3 times in a row on it, several times a day. Just because no one can visibly witness Geko nerfing and taunting them from inside his Ivory tower... doesn't mean he's not doing exactly that.

[ QUOTE ]
So, Castle, drop whatever you're doing and get CoH/V Korea out the door so we can clone you

[/ QUOTE ]

Clone Pohsybs instead, they pack into boxes better and don't require "vintage" rock music

*Throws tomotoes at Castle's soap box*
GET BACK TO WORK, HIPPY!

[ QUOTE ]
Mainly dominators arent as bad as everyone is letting on if they get a mass dmg buff like everyone is calling for they will be nerfed shortly after.Balancing an AT capable of dmg and control is a fine line,either they have so much dmg u dont have a chance when they hold u or they dont have anywhere near enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... OR WE COULD... Step back into reality(This event was a Fluke) where everyone brings Breakfrees to PvP and this garbage of taking 10-13 attacks to kill anything or build domination becomes pretty apparent for what it really is... Garbage. And yeah, Doms are a lot better with a lot of Buffs on them from teammates... but they don't become Gods like Stalkers, Corrs, and Brutes do when they recieve the same buffs.


I thoguht it was hilarious during the event, because I watched several scrappers all Log out once a Dom held them with domination. They still had the full 30 seconds to logout and escape the extra long 45 or 60 seconds it would have taken the Dom to kill them. Now Castle said he was going to do something about Low-Damage AT's taking this long to defeat people... But it looks like that compramise remains unfulfilled.

Turrets dont "Jump out of melee" ...I'm guessing that's the logic anyway... That they're really only meant for one thing and that's taking Pillboxes ...depite the Hero Heavy OTH being a wicked-cool pet for ranged Villain-Ganking.

Case in Point: The Heavy Blaster spider is basically an E.B. of the Arachnos Disruptor, which I'm guessing represents Scirrocco in the same way Fortunatas and NightWidows represent Ghost widow, and Huntsman/ToxicTaurants represent Scorpion. ...where as Longbow are just well... really generic like EPP/APP's, thus somehow better???

I dunno, I'll never understand that whole deal since Positron told us it would be one thing and then it turned out to be the complete opposite ...nor should I be expected to understand the "logic" there.

#1: Continuing from yesterday... (#2's at the bottom and only applies to 1 or 2 people)

A positive Rant:
To me, this zone is the closest thing I've seen yet to how "Lost Temple" and other good Starcraft/Warcraft3 scenarios. To me, that's the higest honor that can be given to any Direct head-to-head/PvP Map/Design to date. It's addictive, FUN, but also very risky and you never know where the next treat will come from so just about any counter/build can come in handy at the drop of a hat. I LOVE that this zone makes Tankers and MM's a real force to be reckoned with in PvP b/c in every other zone they've done nothing but sit on the sidelines saying "Dwaaaa... Why won't anyone plaaaay with meeeee?" ...Oh, and it's also got some really fun toys


Now that that's out of the way...Back to the major imablances/bug/suggestions
...The constant mez-fests leading to the following:

-Pretty much everyone in the zone rolling Scrappers/Stalkers b/c their squishy PvP builds depend HEAVILY on a level-50 tray filled with 25 BreakFrees but no BF's were readily available.

-Chainholding: Yes, it's still happening!... singularities are the main culprits, but there were other incidents too

-ChainTerrorize ...I dunno why, but my Lich kept a couple scrappers Chain-Feared...

-"Squishies" being unplayable/useless/killed within 2 seconds of the start of fights.

-Constant "Jousting" by Melee chars who take off over HALF your HP's AND mez you in the same hit.

-"Range as defense" being the most gimped "defense" in the game.

-Maintining Crucial toggles impossible

-"Haves and Have-Nots" situations (*/*/Psi trollers becoming tank mages)

-Forced Min/Max teaming and the exlusion of Debuff-Based Corrs/Defs/MM's....

-Doms only being playable IF they have BF's and their opponents have none = BINARY

-ALL Longbow having Mezzes = Extra squishy Debt and lots of it.

- "SR Scrapper City" ...Ellude means NEVER being held, EVAR...by ANYTHING. (sorry SFB, but this one stays b/c it looks like the mind control thing is just a bug... much like Earth control's was...which was later patched)

-Killstealing: You finally hold something... some Scrapper/Stalker jerk runs up and takes credit

-NPC Killstealing: Same as above only now you caused someone debt on accident and now they're really pissed at you, or just leave the zone entirely.

-Being chainheld while controlling a Pill-Box = Turrets do nothing (Turrets SHOULD default to aggressive)

-Being held out of bodyguard range and instaganked (can't change to Defensive mode when held)



Other issues:

==PillBoxes==
-Most Squishies being worthless for "Heavy" and Pillbox control: IE: instaganked by Stalkers or BS-Scrappers. If nothing else, being in a big hightech Pillbox should provide Radar(+PER) and SimpleArmor(Smash/Lethal) ....Maybe the Turrets themselves could just have a buff aura like PolicDrones that granted both of those since they're not good for much else being only level 49...

-MM's OTH, almost unkillable when controlling Pillboxes. (And My MM only had 3 pets!) ...shouldn't there be a lower Cap on the resists that Bodyguard provides?

-"spiders" with +PER ...Don't know what this is, but we all know that Heroes built for "stealth" can't stack it so anything over +400ft +PER pretty much sees everyone.

-Teleporting TO pillboxes: Yeah I did this with my MM... TP-Foe 3slotted for Range is a Nasty Combination when you're inside a pillbox controlling it's Turrets and also have in your posession:

-...While controlling Heavies: ...Isn't this overkill? Shouldn't you be prevented from "capturing" a Pillbox and gaining it's turrets if you've got a Heavy with you too? I was putting Noxious Gas on my Heavy, and Poisontraps down to drop people's toggles the instant I TP'd them to me, then Alphastrike them with 3 Pets(2 pets with Headsplitter that can Crit, 1 with Fear AND a hold), all 4 Turrets AND a Heavy... This tactic makes stacked Trip-Mines look like a cute little spanking.

-Indicators/Soloing turrets: Why aren't we given some kind of warning when one of our captured pillboxes is under attack?

-Too remote? ...This is part of the above... Often an MM, Tank, Brute, or Scrapper can wander off on their own and just defeat all 4 level-49 turrets on the captured-but-abondoned pillbox's located to the far bottom and top corners of the map b/c it's way out in the boonies and no one wants to sit there guarding the damn things from these guys... watching paint dry is more fun.

-AV's spawning +4 the pillboxes they're only supposed to "Help" Retake ...This totally Trivializes "Heavies" and makes it impossible to hold these pillboxes when the AV's run straight to them or some idiot aggros the AV's and leads them right to one you were sitting at minding your own business in.... Normally this is called "Choo-Choo Training" or Griefing in PvE... WHY IS IT DIFFERENT HERE??

==Heavies==
Bad ACC: Dayamn... for being a level 54, these buggers sure do miss a lot!

-Farming Wardens: I did this too... People were complaining about wardens two-shotting them right? Well I was group-flying around on my MM with a heavy two-shotting Wardens, LMAO... It's both hilarous, AND profitable for anyone with a couple Buffs or Debuffs to command their "heavy" to walk right into melee with the Wardens... not only does the Heavy shirk off any damage done, but it kills the Warden in about 5 seconds or less with no risk at all to the player. I did this for about 20 minutes straight and got a full bar of XP, full tray of SO's, and enough INSPs to sink a ship.

-GroupFly but no TP? ...Seriously, I was using Group-Fly to move mine along a bit faster... seems fair to me atleast... But Group-Teleport didn't work, and Teleport Friend didn't even work. Can these things even be Wormholed away?...why can't they be teleported like every other mobile pet in the game?

-Stays at Range: People complain about the Villain "Heavy Blaster" for the ame reason they complain about their Hero blasters having lower damage than it should... Uh DUH, because they don't take the melee Attacks. Maybe this heavy should slowly close to Melee range while it's ranged attacks are cycling? ...That way more ppl will notice it's huge DPS at Melee range

-3 Platforms but only 2 are ever up? ...No really.. there's a platform inside the base that I never saw a Heavy on and I know for a fact that only 2 of them were in use at the time b/c I had one and the guy I was following had the other.

-No XP for killing them? This is REAL bullcrap... It's a LEVEL 54 E.B. ..Yeah I get that they just "crumble" when you kill their "pilots", but why no XP when we do all the work of actually killing them first? They can 2-shot most of us...

Everything else:
-Outnumbering and Instances: A lot of people remarked that player distribution was just plain awful... some zones had 3 heroes versus a Zone full of Villains, and visa versa... Yet many of these zones would say "Full". It didn't seem like the servers were placing just anyone in the instances based on actual faction ratios, it was random at best and very biased in practice. How about some real algorythems here to better distribute players and limit "Zerging" of instances/"rooms"?

-Level 54 AV's. ...there's nothing I can really say about these that hasn't been said already... but why isn't there more of a "ramping up" effect or gradual increase in their level? Why are they always 54? Why not put an automatic "Difficulty Slider" in based on the number of players to each faction or based on how many times they've won the zone in a row?

-MM Armies and Ice/Stone Tank Armies are pretty rediculous in general. MM armies because of the Lag, and Ice/Stone Tanker armies because they stack Slows, play Taunt-PingPong, are basically unkillable, AND get some serious alphastrike power in End-Game (I know I wasn't the only one being conistantly 2-shot by SS and EM tanks). ...I was also Part of one of these Tanker armies that took down several neutral pilboxes WHILE taking down twice our numbers in Villains quite easily. We were killing Brutes left and right and I didn't even have my attacks slotted for damage!

-Bugged Turrets: Seems to happen mostly to the Turret closest to the Villain base, Heroes capture it from the Villains, but then it the villains capture it back but it gets "Stuck" ...Infact it seems to cause Zone-Lag too.. Is it stuck in a programming loop?

-Wardens get Nukes and Ultimates??? ...No really, I've seen them use the folllowing: Unstoppable, Ellude, MoG, ThuderousBlast with 100% End-Drain(Now THAT'S an MM killer!), Psychic-Wail /w Stun, ...and some Nuke I didn't even recognize.. (Possibly Sonic or reserved for nuke NPC's only?)

-MindControl Control-type: Yes Stupid fanboy, I already knew about this, or rather my IceTank did. Maybe a little Moderation? It's great that MindControl can finally do something better than anyone else, but that doesn't mean they should bypass 100% of all DEF types.... Just having two AoE based holds gives them more Accuracy against SR's than any trollers stacking ranged holds.

-Core PvP'ers sticking to Heroes or Stalkers: Pretty simple, people go where the power is. I left over 15 zones during the course of this event b/c either no one on the Villain side would Team-Up, or there were too many Heroes for there to ever be a fair fight for the zone.

-Dom dps still unimpressive: Okay... so it scales better than Corruptor damage up to 50? So what... they're still the lowest damage AT next to defenders at this level, and the people who were saying "Yay,my dom was kicking butt" will be singing a different tune when everyone including Tanks and Scrappers have 25 BreakFrees and they can't hold anyone long enough to actually kill them before hold suppression kicks in and the Dom gets 2-shotted as usual for their troubles.

-Debuffs only affecting a portion of base stats. Isn't it enough that most Debuffs require a to-Hit check? Why are they STILL not affecting total stats on all of the things they debuff? For instance a 25% DMG debuff on your typical Scrapper or Stalker slotted for damage and abuse of "Buildup" is less than a 6% actual Debuff... he's still hitting you for almost 95% of his original damage.... BOO! ...This really affects R.V. in particular b/c a lot of Teir 7-9 powers for support builds rely on these stronger AoE debuffs to balance out their very long recharge times.

-End Drains: Same as Debuffs... Many of them require hit-checks too... WHY are are either of these things being double-penalized in PvP? Fior many builds, it's the only defense they have.

-Stacking Hold "patches": Here's one more that I'm guilty of... Dropping toggles faster than any Blaster, Controller, or Dominator could ever hope to with these poisontrap type powers that stack holds. If you've ever faught HighExplosive Gas Missile turrets in PvE, you already know what I'm talking about. Yeah they're important for Traps and Poison, but they also tick a little too fast and often overcome Mag-12 Status protection in a couple seconds.

-FLY on impale? ...AGAIN... something that's a bit excessive for an AT that already has everything(yes I'm talking about "Jousting Scrappers"... why not just give it -JMP instead like Doms get? It would make more sense anyway. It's not like Flyers in PvP don't already have enough issues with Melee AT's and their constant TP-foeing, Stunning, and SuperLeap 2-shotting.

-Stamina...again: ...many Aura powers which are basically required by your powerset for PvP just cost way too much and there's no way you can run them AND stay alive or attack without having Stamina too... I tried 3-slotting all of these powers for END-reduction but it sill wasn't nearly enough. And you can't just pop a squat in the middle of PvP. Meanwhile Stamina and Health gives it's owners a HUGE advantage over anyone who doesn't have them b/c of this latest "1hp/1end" hospital change.

-Some Trap powers randomly backfiring. Yes,. imagine my suprise when I'm held by my own trap.. and do a double-take when I check, and check again, but don't see "confused" message or Icons in the right corner of my screen... WTH causes THIS bug?

-Wardens on every corner...totally owning 90% of Arachnos troops

-Wardens starting fights with MM pets and the pets aggroing back b/c they're set to Defensive

-Scrappers, Brutes, and Stalkers only leaving their bases when their "Ultimates" were up.

-Can only recruit players by watching Broadcast... search window doesn't limit by "Instance"

-/Whoall command should ONLY show players up top... not the ones down inside the bases.

-SS + SJ FTW! ...Every ganker in the game had this... why aren't these toggles mutually exlusive?

-Almost No one is rolling squishy support builds...thus no one is safe rolling squishy support builds...Irony?

-Why don't MM's in bodyguard mode get Teleport-Foe resistance like all other +DEF sets?

-Why doesn't the 1-HP rule penalize everyone equally by applying a No-Regen debuff?

-Why isn't there a gateway to switch Instances directly? ...zoning to G-V first takes too long.

-I also saw people in Every zone, including Mercy and PO... isn't this allowing them to buy INSP's?


#2: That guy who said I was a biased "cry-baby" is clearly just a flaming idiot with an axe to grind, everyone knows I'm an equal-opportunity Nerf-herder and a grumpy malcontent in general...There is no faction bias for me, I play both sides of the fence because I can't frikkin stop myself.

I decided I'm going to start a huge list of all issues pertaining to level 50 PvP, and this Zone in particular:

FIRST AND FOREMOST ..The constant mez-fest. Every AT in the game can get get a Mez, and SOME At's get a Mez PLUS Mez protection. In PvP, this MUST BE ADDRESSED DEVS AND YOU ALL KNOW IT. Because it leads to the following:

-"Squishies" being unplayable/useless/killed within 2 seconds of the start of fights.
-Constant "Jousting" by Melee chars who take off over HALF your HP's AND mez you in the same hit.
-"Range as defense" being being the most gimped "defense" in the game.
-Maintining Crucial toggles impossible
-"Haves and Have-Nots" situations (*/*/Psi trollers becoming tank mages)
-Forced Min/Max teaming and the exlusion of Debuff-Based Corrs/Defs/MM's....
-Doms only being playable IF they have BF's and their opponents have none = BINARY
-ALL Longbow having Mezzes = Extra squishy Debt and lots of it.
- "SR Scrapper City" ...Ellude means NEVER being held, EVAR...by ANYTHING.
-Killstealing: You finally hold something... some Scrapper/Stalker jerk runs up and takes credit
-NPC Killstealing: Same as above only now you caused someone debt on accident.
-Being chainheld while controlling a Pill-Box = Turrets do nothing (Turrets SHOULD default to aggressive)
-Being TP'd out of bodyguard range and held = instagank (can't change to Defensive mode when held)

How to counter this? I propose that any attack which causes mezzing/immob should in-turn suppress all of that user's own Mez protection for the duration of the mez they attacked with.... exclusively in PvP of course. It's too late to remove mezzing from the game, but we can still make it a fair playing field.


Other issues:
-AV's spawning +4 the pillboxes they're only supposed to "Help" Retake ...This totally Trivializes "Heavies"
-Wardens on every corner...totally owning 90% of Arachnos troops
-Wardens starting fights with MM pets and the pets aggroing back b/c they're set to Defensive
-Most Squishies being worthless for "Heavy" and Pillbox control: IE: instaganked.
-MM's OTH, almost unkillable when controlling Pillboxes. (And My MM only had 3 pets!)
-Scrappers, Brutes, and Stalkers only leaving their bases when their "Ultimates" were up.
-Can only recruit players by watching Broadcast... search window doesn't limit by "Instance"
-/Whoall command should ONLY show players up top... not the ones down inside the bases.
-SS + SJ FTW! ...Every ganker in the game had this... why aren't these toggles mutually exlusive?
-Almost No one is rolling squishy support builds...thus no one is safe rolling squishy support builds...Irony?
-Why don't MM's in bodyguard mode get Teleport-Foe resistance like all other +DEF sets?
-Why doesn't the 1-HP rule penalize everyone equally by applying a No-Regen debuff?
-Why isn't there a gateway to switch Instances directly? ...zoning to G-V first takes too long.
-I also saw people in Every zone, including Mercy and PO... isn't this allowing them to buy INSP's?


And one last.. MAJOR... issue: The "Teaming fixes AT-imbalances" MYTH... Umm, NO. This game currently is NOT built around Teaming balancing out PvP, it's built around Teaming = Better ganksquad and that's all. The AT's that do the ganking solo, still do all the ganking when teamed, only faster. And the AT's that get ganked in 1-on-1 only get ganked quicker by another team. You can't tell me that a Team of Dominators is even remotely comparable in power or ultility to a team of Scrappers. And mixing up the AT's doesn't help either unless they're all Min/Maxxed to become Tank-Mages when combined. IE: Defenders and Corruptors, need a buddy system just to do their jobs... all other low damage or AT's without self-heals/StatuProtecion require a "Pocket-Empath" and Buffbot...

Tell us Devs... is it fair to look at this unfair situation and take it to mean that you Condone "Triple Boxing" in order for any build except Regens / IceArmors / SR/Nin's to be able to compete in PvP? We all know the dataming shows that "buffbots" and "healers" have no incentive to venture out into the fray and actually "participate" actively in PvP... What's up with that and why are you still silent about it after 3 very very long Updates since PvP was first implimented in Issue-4? Are you trying to tell us that only those who can afford 3 accounts should be allowed to choose and compete?


*Note: Will update this list at the end of Friday...minus the rants...for brevity's sake.

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I hate to burst everyone's bubble here - but I7 is not going up before the end of May. We have a few more things left to fix/tweak.

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GOOD Please take AS MUCH time as possible, I'd say y'all got more than just a few "tweaks" left to do.
But TY TY, very much, for promising to give us an official release date, it means a lot.

I actually saw a Dom in R.V. today do something which was useful... and that was to buildup his domination on my Ice Tanker while I was Hibernating, and then Break through my Statusprotection when I was trying to make it back to the Turrets... He didn't hold me long enough for his team to kill me though so I dunno how useful it really was...

Other than that though, I just saw them getting munched by every Hero AT in the game. Infact the last one that got too close to me (I guess he thought he'd complete his attack chain by using his melee...LOL!) got stunned and munched in 2.3 seconds by me and another Tanker. Overall... still pretty sad and utterly useless in RV. Sure, They do well in smaller PvE teams .... But what Villain AT DOESN'T? ...If you really want a good laugh, go on test and checkout the AT breakdown and how many more Scrappers, Stalkers, and Controllers there are than Doms. Hell, Tankers, Defenders, and even Keldians outnumber them during this event...

Call me crazy, but I also think I saw a Spines warden go MoG... and an MA warden go ellude.... It was seriously messed up if you ask me because we all know Bosses get bigtime recharge discounts on all powers and could probably be Perma on those powers if their AI script allowed it.

LOL Sin! Damn, this is the most popular server event yet. This franchise desperately needs a dedicated PvP server that's linked to all the PvE servers so we can see that every night we enter a PvP area/arena


[ QUOTE ]
aw hulbert, that's not like you to be so shy. go ahead, call out those people that need to be nerfed.

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Let's not go down that road again, afterall I didn't say all scrappers or even mention regens. No, I just pointed to stacking travel powers and "jousting"... Afterall... why should their 2 Travel powers trump my entire Primary & Secondary? I'm a firm believer in Twitch and still hate the horrible... horrible idea, that is "suppression"... but that doesn't mean I'll be content with some FotM 2-shotting me by bypassing every self defense (and Offense) with 2 very generic and over-abused power pools.

Aka: Scrappers? No, Scrappers are Fine... Superleap + Superspeed? ...Needs to be brought in line with other powers in the game that don't stack in such ways as to negate entire Archetypes from PvP...

It's even overpowered on Blasters and Doms... Go figure, Eh?

Yeah... you were actually one of the easier targets to kill... not like that "exploit" guy, he was annoying as hell.

I'da stayed around to prevent that second capture, but I had to go eat...
Will be back for more, I've got a lot of builds to test still...

Off in another tangent.... I'm glad the Tankers were doing so well there... It's about time they got to actually *tank* in PvP again and be of use. Ufortunately They're still being totally overshadowed by certain Scrapper builds though. ...Methinks those Scrappers will be the FotM's again like they were in Issue-4 until they're "dealt with" again in Issue-8 as they were in Issue-5... either that or something will be put in to prevent them from "jousting" in and 2-shotting squishies so easily.

[ QUOTE ]
Controllers are the most effective hero AT on the hero side for team v team PvP and once they get into their APP's they can also solo in PvP quite effectively. Of course people like them, who wouldn't? (besides people who play Defenders that is)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you'll remember I commented that */*/Psi controllers become like tank-mages in high level PvP in that thread about Tac's Stalker... But the Changes to Controllers have absolutely nothing to do with that.. infact the I-5 changes litterally nerfed the high level Uber-build controllers.... especially Fire/Kins and now Ill/Rad with the Schedule change to -ACC enhancers and the stealth nerf to E.F. No, I'm talking about Early and Mid game here... that's when people attempt to play Doms and become frustrated with their unjustified weaknesses...and then transfer that frustration into apathy towards doms when recruiting one for a team.

I'm under no dellusions that It's no accident either, they truned out this way b/c the devs were more worried about continuing instances of the same over-powered controllers/builds appearing in CoV than any concerns about ending up with a gimpish AT.

But it's no excuse, and going into Issue-8 here will be the prime time to unify our demmands for real changes that make the AT popular, and less reliance on Domination as a crutch.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Got my grav/ene dom to 8 last night. 3rd time I've built him. When I tried to play him like a scrapper or a blaster, he sucked.


Then I decided to play him like a dominator. Everything changed.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's more true than anything I've seen on the boards in a long time. When people forget about trying to play the CoV AT's like they played CoH AT's, their gameplay improves dramatically.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't help but read that and picture a WASPy republican middle aged father saying "Well I finally found a way to get over the fact that I have a homosexual son... which is to just pretend I have a daughter instead"... The fact of the matter is, it's not what any of us envisioned, it doesn't serve a dynamic role, and we're lowering our standards to accept that. Some people are happy with theirs but it doesn't change the fact that it's still an evolutionary dead-end under current circumstances.


Yeah I played a Grav/Nrg too, to 33... it wasn't hard for me but very few things in this game are anymore. But there's also nothing about it that's naturally inticing. From "Assault" I only kept 3 attacks and powerboost... the rest of my secondary can go [censored] itself b/c the last thing villain teams are lacking is a little "extra damage". It's not like a Coruptor or MM where you can take equal amounts of Primary VS secondary and still contribute to your team equally as much. About 80% of my build is powerpools and control and he STILL has major survivability issues... well not me personally... but I can see exact moments in battles where many people would be in perma debt when expected to take on the hordes I'm expected to in larger teams with a Dom. Chainholding everything and only taking on that which you can keep chain-held might work, but it's never been FUN to a majority of players... we've already gone through this with Controllers .

It took over year too and some people seem to conveniently forget it happened whenever their dominators are the focus of discussion, but it happened all the same... Suddenly, fewer Tankers and Scrappers were being rolled, and the controller population grew until it was on equal footing with everyone else once they were finally given real damage in early game too. Nevermind that people like me and Ishtar already had guides and lots of positive encouragement (prior the big change) showing that controllers could also be damage-dealers before getting Pets by taking the right powers. ...No, the big splash was made when people finally saw for themselves a well-rounded AT that wasn't shortsheeted(underpowered) on any of the essentials required to do a majority of the tasks this game called for.


But here we are again, back at square one spending more time talking over the best method of "acceptance" than over what still needs to be changed. ...Metering out the things we can do with them despite the fact that most teams would much rather have a skilled player supporting their team with a Brute, Corruptor or MM. Well snap out of it... there's no guess work involved here and this conundrum has already been answered and proven.

I don't get it.. did EvilRyu say "If Stalkers got smoke grenade"? ... Well... THEY DO.
If he wants to talk dirty tricks... there's MUCH WORSE things mobs could do that my PvP Corr already does all the time... which is:
-Spawn Seeker Drones... Debuffs ACC and PER worse than smoke grenade
-Seekers will attack whether I'm phaseshifted or Invisible... I don't even have to risk being targeted.
-Place Invisibility buffs on my "AS-capeable minions".
-Spam a Taunt while turning invisible, then switch to a Terrorize, then back to the Taunt+Invis when the Terrorize wears off again (BtW, Thx for the idea Castle!...it's ganktacular in a team fight!)
-Drop a Poison Trap with "pulsing holds"... anyone who's fought immobile Gas Turrets knows how quickly this attacks breaks every Mez protection in the game.
-Even if you kill me, the gas trap stays there...continuing to pulse.
-Pre-emptively Snipe from 225 yards away...Kite with Teleport... Snipe again.
-Teleport you almost 300 yards into: Caltrops, Poison, Mortar, TripMines, TimeBomb, and anything else that's handily waiting nearby.
-And there's no jumping out it either...I have -JMP debuff too.

None of this stuff is Uber either... It's just very effective when in certain situations.
And as long as the MASSIVE +DEF buff that NW's had is removed, then they'er only situational too and not game breaking. ...Like was already pointed out, some of the NPC's base stats on attacks can usually be more game-breaking than any of the tactics they use. We should be encouraging anything that strengthens the AI as an alternative to the hamfisted game design practices of just buffing HP/Regen/DEF/whatever else.

I'm not sure When I'll have time to test this, so could someone answer a curiosity for me?

4 of 5 Villains PPPs contain a ranged Hold/Immob.... How is this affecting Blasters and Defenders? I ask b/c In general... The Devs' design mantra has always been "No AT is absolutely required for any team"... But if PvP becomes even more of a Mez-fest, then doesn't that make Empathy Defenders/Controllers required on all teams? We know Tanks and Scrappers can't absorbe mezzes, let alone find room to take Stimulant for their squishy Teammates so what exactly is the equalizer here? ...Other than a tray full of Break-frees I mean.

IE: Are Blasters and Defenders in ALL Team Make-Ups maintaining the same level of success they have in other zones and the Arena?

All a Stalker needs to be successful in PvP is himself. The Dom makes some kills more convenient, but only when the Stalker isn't EM, or MA or the victim is out of Break-Frees or not protected by any status protection...when they are, the Dom is deadweight

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However everyone and their brother, on the villain side, is going to have Web Cocoon and/or Web Envelope that its value is going to go down.

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Primary > Secondary > PowerPool
I can litterally Spam my WebGrenade.. it's a 4 second recharge for me. The PPP -JMP powers take considerably longer to recharge. Now let's talk about PPP holds... everyone but Brutes and Doms get one. How's this any different than your example of PPP Web powers? ...because there's no Suppresion on debuffs and no escaping them with breakfrees. If a team all uses their hold focus-fire style, they'll break that Scrapper or Tankers mez protection in 1 alpha... thus they don't need a Dom. But the likelyhood that all of them will have a -JMP power is much less probable and means they won't be chain-debuffing anyone.

As for everyone else... Czar just said it better, and spared me the trouble.


But here's something else to consider... if the Level 50+ game becomes a Mez-Fest... which it certainly looks like that's the plan where PPP's are concerned, then the Heroes will stress CM, Clarity, ID, and other Mez Protection buffs, further destabilizing the role of all Dominators while increasing the demmand for players with highpowered Snipes and Debuffs, IE: Stalkers and Corruptors. We still don't know where MM's will fit in to all of this... but early reports show that Bodyguard with the right support powers and build has turned them into Tankers....Thus Doms are now the new squishiest squishy of all squishies that have ever gone *SQUISH* in PvP thus will be ganked way before the MM's, Brutes, and Stalkers just b/c they're the easiest to kill.

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Whether you want to believe me or not is your choice. I can say that Doms are worth having on PvP teams. Doms on good teams do quite well, we ran with 3 last night, 2 VG members and a pickup and did very well in RV till our /Thermal ran into network problems.

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I'm aware of ALL of this... Infact we agree more than most anyone else on the Boards that it's meant to be balanced for Team VS Team.... IE: How we've always agreed that Stalkers should be encouraged to team more as well.

The Problem is... Doms are unwanted on teams in general. They suffer from the Glass Cannon syndrome Blasters used to suffer from: IE: when everyone preferred Scrappers b/c they had much more HP's thus didn't need a wetnurse/rezzer. Well... everyone would much rather take another Stalker or Corruptor over a Dom... ESPECIALLY IN PVP. The complete lack of self +DEF buffs and Ally-Buffs, lack of Mez protection, lack of Hitpoints, and lack of Alphastrike capability makes a majority of them practically useless.

Take what I've done... I rolled my Grav/NRG up to 33... did well in PvP but also got 2-shot Ganked by blasters/scrappers everytime I left the Base. But I was okay with that because I was Dropping scrapper and tanker toggles left and right in LESS THAN 3 ATTACKS which allowed me to hold them and contribute to easier kills for my team.

After seeing the I-7 Patch notes... I abondoned my PvP Dominator and rolled an Nrg/Traps Corruptor instead who's already 3x less "squishy", has more damage, and so much utility it's not even funny. His final build is still pending... but you can bet that if I'm already at 3x the REP points of my dom at level 30, without being respec'd for PvP like my Dom is, and play both builds exclusively in Teamed PvP -- that a Corruptor is obviously the way to go. Plain and simple: Anyone who rolls a Dom is just gimping themselves in PvP.

Here's what my Corr can bring to the table:
Web'Nade: -JMP ...(only 1 Dom build gets this) and its a HUGE DEAL in PvP
Caltrops: -SPD
FF Gen: Very high +DEF and Status Resists to Stun/Hold/Immob ...again, HUGE in PvP
Mortar: -DEF debuff with a VERY HIGH base Accuracy, even hit defenders in PFF consistantly
Seeker Drones: -ACC/-Per Debuff: Both a HUGE deal in PvP
Sniper Blast @ lvl 18: This crap plus Scourge OWNS "runners" in outdoor PvP Zones
TripMine: High Damage plus toggle Dropping.
PoisonTrap: Easily the most broken AoE hold in the game: Not only does it cycle in 30 secs for me, but it also autohits and "pulses", thus dropping toggles MUCH faster than Domination ever could.

The best part is, /Cold and /Rad is actually preferred by most PvP Corruptors while traps is only preferred by Masterminds in PvP so no one will ever be able to call me a FotM like /Ice dominators obviously will be. IE: to Clarify I wasn't calling YOU a FotM... Ice/Nrg is FAR from it. However all /Ice doms will be FotM in I-7 ...very squishy and in need of contant buff-bottage...thus a burden to their team but a FotM none the less.

THAT is how badly Doms will continue to suck in PvP, teamed or not... IE: to the point that a PvE built corruptor almost no one else in their right mind would level up to 30, but can totally leave them all in the dust.

I don't believe Thoriz for one second when he says the PvP changes are fine... No Energy Dom who's out there naked as a jaybird in PvP (IE: not protected by a Jack, Grantinvis, and flanked by gobs of Stalkers) is going to say this is hunky dory. Energy did 2 things well, it dropped toggles and Stunned with longer Duration b/c of Powerboost. You don't get Domination up before you're dead by using energy attacks; they just recharge too slow, have too short a range, and nothing to offer for protection except KB (which is totally negated by Acrobatics or most Melee Status toggles).

Most doms don't have a dedicated PvP supergroup to support them so the realities they'll be facing will be in stark contrast to his. Plain and simple, Thoriz is sheltered, not creditable, and basing almost the entirety of his opinions on this matter off of FotM Ice builds in his elite SG.

I PvP with SG's built for PvP from the ground up too, so I know a difference it makes. But expecting everyone else to do the same is like yelling "134rN 2 P1Ay n00b" and that's not a casual solution to the problem. It totally ignores the Weaknesses that people are pointing out here.


(I tried to point this out in another thread but an altercation with someone who it shouldn't have even conerned resulted in it being "trimmed out" of existance. That's why I'm pointing it out again. this was a pre-existing statement and I will continue not to challenge anyone else to their opinions in this regard unless they're basing those opinions off of incoreect power Stats)

I warned everyone that Elec Melee was going to suck.

Elec Armor however.. is a swiss army knife... If you can't take advantage of the fact it has almost no real build weaknesses, then you're not playing with the right tactics....or you're trying to solo things you shouldn't be.

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|Buff/Debuff Value|
|Slow. . . . 95.7%|

Also doing it on Ice and Oil Slick, and if I had a Slow in Entangling, I bet it'd do it there, too.

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And as we all know, the only Slow you can enhance the debuff on is Runspeed and Flyspeed. Jump-Speed and -Recharge can only be affected by stacking the Debuffs... and usually only from multiple sources which for the most part, totally breaks all slow powers against anyone with Hasten and Superleap in PvP.... just like -DMG debuffs are worthless against most damage dealers.

So naturally... Castle... the Solution to weak slows in PvP is to cut their recharge-time in half again (or whatever it's original value was during Issue-5's Test-Period before it was Nerfed) and ensure that it stacks from the same source.

Doesn't sound right to me...

My Defender's Dominate is somewhere around 10-14 second duration @ 50 and recharges in the standard 8... Once I started slotting it, I was chain-holding +2 bosses.

Heh Whoops! ...so the question wasn't "what was Positron smoking"
... I should have asked "what were the Coders smoking"

I hope Dominator "fixes" are just suffering from a similar snafu and we'll get the REAL changes in the next test patch too