Another_Fan
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Quote:If you are using the character you are playing actively to try and purchase off level items in most of the cases you will be waiting even longer and tie up slots for longer periods of time. You will likely save on the purchase price but you will lose opportunities to sell or store things you will need.Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
So I guess the only conclusion I can draw here is that if you ignore the market and IOs until you're 50, you're stuck with a choice between paying buy it nao prices and waiting "forever" to finish your build. I agree with that conclusion, however I fail to see how it has anything to do with player greed or indicates any kind of problem with the market.
I can usually level to 50 in the time it takes for a 30 exemplar build to fill.
Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
Another_Fan: Maybe we need to back up and restate our positions. Because it sounds to me like you're complaining about the number of things you need to leave bids on, and then you're leaving bids on things where it makes a trivial difference in total inf spent.
It sounds to you like I'm advocating one hundred bid creeps, which doesn't sound like anything I remember saying.
My view is this: If you BUY IT NAO on the small things, and bid with a small amount of patience on the large things, you can get a build at roughly half price (compared to buying everything, now, crafted) and bid patiently on surprisingly few items. That may be nuanced, but if intelligence means anything it's the ability to make subtle distinctions.
Im not really complaining. Its more an observation of why buy it nao makes sense for most people. I do know that marketeering in general takes longer than most people think it does, and much of what you have to do be effective is game breaking for people that play characters and not corporations.
From a personal standpoint I have the retired characters and the inf to put out bids and leave them out indefinitely. Matter of fact longterm lowballs are one of the few good uses of surplus inf that I have found. -
Quote:Tickets are almost as bad as the market if you are trying to get good use out of them.Originally Posted by eryq2
Im not saying whats efficient or not, but if i only have an hour to play i can run 4 AE BM farms. Get 6000 tickets, unless i log both accounts then i have 12k tix. I normally roll silver and bronze. I get crap rolls but i get just as many good rolls. (enuff to keep me doing it, lol)
Some say farms are inefficient, but i can't complain with what i have earned for myself. To each their own. However they choose to spend an hour is on them, but id rather kill stuff than mess with the market. Unless im posting the recipes i just rolled for 222 and some fast inf.
Last night for example, i got 2 ToD, 1 Perf Shift end proc, and a -kb IO to sell. Dropped them off for 222 each and made over 50mil. In less than an hour. (not counting the cheap stuff. i just deleted them)
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
No, that's not a PL. A PL is standing in a farm map and getting a 50 to mow down easy spawns over and over.
The time I spend bidding on salvage + recipes and crafting what I need to outfit a character is extremely small compared to the time it takes getting to 50 doing missions as you describe. At absolute most, I probably spend an hour per character on the activities that I need to add in buying recipes + salvage over and above what I would spend buying crafted enhancers outright. At extremely productive, non-PL paces, people are spending something like 100 hours of actual playtime getting from 1-50, assuming they don't also do something weird like only play when they have 10 bars of Patrol XP to spend.
So I'm adding 1% to that playtime, on characters that I usually end up playing for a couple thousand hours apiece. In exchchange, I pay like 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the inefficiency. It's my opinion that if you consider that a meaningful time inefficiency, that's a sign of vast impatience.
I'd suggest using a stopwatch when you are there. I take between 300-500 mil out of the market on a daily basis but there is no way that can be described as quick. Purchasing is something I only do on alts I'm not playing, matter of fact marketeering is something only done on alts im not playing. Its the only way I know of to avoid market constipation. -
Quote:Well there is no punish the greedy motivation in my example. If you are going to patient bid you might as well maximize the effect.Originally Posted by Fulmens
You're got several goals, none of which are stated and many of which are in conflict. "Punish the greedy" (tying up slots to save a couple of hundred thousand on uncommon salvage) is on your list. I'm going to take it off my list and see what I get.
I'm going to look at Positron's Blast, level 50, and compare four cases: BUY IT NAO [crafted], BUY IT NAO [recipes and salvage], my estimated "patient prices" with BUY IT NAO salvage, and maximum patient pricing. Anything currently under 5908 for salvage, or 100K for recipe, will be bought nao for those prices.
NAO CRAFTED [I actually did this right NAO]- bid creeping from 50% of lowest till buy, in 10% increments:
Damage/recharge 8,000,908
Damage/range 9,000,908
Damage/endurance 20,000,908
Accuracy/Damage 9,000,908
Acc/Dam/End 46,000,908
Total: 93 million, roughly.
BUY IT NAO: [recipes- choosing highest of "last 5"]:
Dam/Rech 7 mill
Dam/Range 1 mill
Dam/End 3 mill
Acc/Dam 7 mill
Acc/Dam/End 40 mill
Plus salvage, assumed to be 3.5 million each, and crafting, .5 million each, and we get 78 million. That's on the high end, because I didn't actually check the buy prices on these to make a conversational point.
[break to do an STF]
If we look at the second-lowest sales, assuming you can reasonably get those prices with patient bidding:
Dam/Rech 3 mill
Dam/Range 0.5 mill
Dam/End 1.5 mill
Acc/Dam 3.5 mill
Acc/Dam/End 18 mill
So if we throw in the "BUY IT NAO" salvage plus crafting, est. at 4 million total per item, we get 46.5 million.
If we assume 2 million per rare salvage, 55K per uncommon salvage, and 5k per common, we get 2.565 million crafting, per item, for a cost of about 13 million salvage and crafting, so around 39.5 million.
Buying crafted NAO vs. bidding on five recipes and instabuying salvage: 98 million vs. 46.5 million. If we buy NAO the two cheapest recipes, we have to bid on three items and we're paying half as much, almost exactly.
Notice that I didn't even check prices on the uncommon salvage. It might cost 100K, it might cost 500K, it might cost 5K. It's not going to make a dent compared to the price of the Dam/Acc/End .
Surely you can leave bids on THREE items overnight?
Now going back to the example you are presenting multiply that by 20 toss in the chance of making errors while bid creeping and you can see why buy it nao or buy SOs is actually better for most people. Unless you are someone who spent their lives trying to eliminate pennies from production costs (Which describes me perfectly) telling someone to bidcreep a hundred times in a video game about punching villains is going to be off the wall. -
Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
I feel so bad charging people for my time as a programmer, taking advantage of them when they could do the programming themselves if they'd only put in twenty years learning to code. I must be very greedy.
I bet not half as bad as when I outsourced my development staff to Bangalore in the 90s. -
Whichever one manages to avoid PvP altogether.
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Quote:Well on the reuse issue from my experience its usually about 0. I either slot commons or SOs as I level. If I don't have my own crafted commons from memorization available SOs are by far the best buy in the game. Hit vanguard or the midnight club and you can do your entire build in under a minute.Originally Posted by Fulmens
You could fill 1-3 slots at a time when you level, or if you're respeccing you could reuse half to 2/3 of your build. But we will ignore that kind of crazy talk for now.
For SOME things it makes perfect sense to buy it nao. If you've got a 200 million inf build, anything under about 100K makes sense to just buy and check it off the list. 0.05% is not going to change the price significantly. I think of those as the pennies in the "take a penny, leave a penny" tray. For the 6 million inf man, where I wasn't leaving ANY pennies on the table, I had about 20 out of 93 slots that were generics, or SO's- things like Build Up, Brawl, Sprint, Hover, where I could buy it crafted for cheap, or Buy It Nao for cheap enough.
So that leaves 73 slots. Roughly. Now for any given slot you've got 1-3 pieces of salvage that cost pennies, and 0-2 that you have to actually bid on. You've also got probably 23 slots where your recipe costs are just disproportionately small and it will fill either immediately or very rapidly. [Consider 5-slotting Positron's Blast: there's Dam/Range at nearly every level where the recipe costs less than the crafting cost, and Dam/End and Dam/Rech are a factor of 5 cheaper than the other three. ] There are only 24 different rare and 24 different uncommon salvages, half of which are junk at any given time, so you're only buying 36 different things salvagewise. You never get everything you need perfectly on the first try, so you are putting down 50 bids for salvage.
So the initial analysis (100 recipes, 300 salvage, 20 trips) turns into 50 recipe bids, 50 salvage bids, 6 market trips. (Assuming you start with nothing you need.)
Did I miss something?
Now lets take a look at your positrons blast example
If you want to get the recipes at anything but buy it nao prices you are going to have to wait and wait. I am pretty certain every piece in the set requires at least 1 rare and IIRC there aren't any pieces you can make with less than 4 pieces of salvage.
The base character has 16 slots ? @50. So they need 5 slots for patient bidding another 5 for patient bidding on the rare salvage. Uncommon salvage seems to be a target for manipulation lately so call it 2 slots for patient bidding there and call it another 2 of the 10 common pieces you can't just buy and ignore.
At that point you have 14 out of 16 market slots tied up bidding for one set. You may need several of these for your build.
How long it takes for this dead time to resolve and how often you have to go through it really determines if its more efficient to just buy it nao.
Edit: SOs are the best buy in terms of my use of time and money and market opportunity. Spending a few 100k for the changes of SOs I need when I need them, and being able to play what I want when I want is well worth it. -
Quote:In another game that it seems everyone on earth plays and maybe even people off earth 10% of the players contribute more than half time played. My guess is you are one of our 10 percenters.Originally Posted by DSorrow
I read things like this and can only wonder. Do people really think that five market cycles, which often equates to five nights, is too much to kit out their favourite character with items more powerful than they will ever need? In any other game, you're lucky if you can get one upgrade every few days once you reach the top level. Once you start reaching the top gear, you're very lucky if you can get an upgrade every week.
5 market cycles are very likely >> 5 consecutive real time evenings for most people.
In my real world people have made billions with business models that are 180 degrees opposite of thisQuote:If people really have to have everything right now, I don't think they have the right to complain that it costs a lot. Typically, even in real life, to get stuff express delivered costs more than waiting for a bit longer. -
Quote:PL = Playing in a full size team running radios and tfs that are max level as they become available ?Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's inefficient to pay enough that you could usually buy 1.5 to 2 of something, including component costs? You and I have radically different definitions of "efficient". I'll spend a few minutes for stuff I'm obtaining to make sure I get a good deal on them, meaning I'm willing to craft them - all of them if it saves me a good chunk of the cost. Time is valuable, but if I payed maximum "buy it nao" on everything I would probably have half or even one third of the purchased loot I have now. Crafting a whole build's worth of stuff for half an hour or something is a drop in the bucket compared to the non-PL time it takes to get to 50.
Time efficient = Playing a second game to play the first, or taking more RL time to play the game. -
Quote:I read things like this and can only wonder. Buy it nao is the only sensible thing for most people to do. You have 100+ slots to fill for a build and typically 17 market slots to fill them with. Unless you have high levels of duplication in your builds you will have to wait 20+ market cycles to build your build. (assumes three salvage and 1 recipe per IO) The other choice is the game breaking behavior of turning all your characters into some sort of collective entity.Originally Posted by DSorrow
So, let me get this straight...
You have observed and identified the problem which is you hating crafting and being willing to pay people absurd sums of influence to do crafting for you. And this is somehow the fault of Greedy Bad People?
Its no surprise people still use SOs. For 6 million and 5 minutes you have a build. Its also no surprise people pay the prices they have to for crafted any other choice is incredibly inefficient. What is a surprise is people still stick with a game that sticks such a cowpie in their faces. -
Quote:Pneumatic pistons with last years introduction of winters gift ?Originally Posted by Generilisk_
An example of this would be the 2009 shortage of one of the halloween salvage parts. I was co-leading a villain SG with the person who managed to pull every single one of them from the market. It was a very profitable year for us.
But I don't see this as something that will ever be able to be achieved with standard invention salvage. There's simply too many drops across too many servers, especially with common salvage. True lasting price control...no way.
Human blood samples by Top Doc a few months ago ?
Ceramic armor plates by B L Angel ?
Let me leave off with a real world example. OPEC doesn't control most of the worlds oil reserves, they just control the cheap oil. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Lothic
If you believe it's become MY crusade to see the Vet system of this game reformed into something that doesn't solidify a "have / have not" culture then I guess I'll be guilty as charged on that one. Vaguely accusing me of this (given my general posting history) is somewhat laughable, but if it makes you feel better to label me that way then knock yourself out with that.
When I saw this badge, I thought what next ? A vet award that makes you do extra damage in pvp ? I can't say what the devs were thinking or if they were thinking much at all when they put this in, but if they were thinking, it looks like they were thinking no point in trying to get new players to play.
P.S. In the past Nethergoat has argued that it was perfectly all right that people in closed beta have access to information that would reshape the market and be able to use it to the detriment of others. There are always people in MMOs that want the deck stacked more and more in their favor. -
Quote:Solo insp flow is very nice on blasters they really should have a higher damage cap though. They are the "Damage AT" it makes no sense that they have that same 500% cap as other ATs especially when they chew up 50%-210% with their own self buffs. So no argument there.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Over the course of a large mission map, not so much. The speed of blaster killing, without the need to setup debuffs allows them to use inspiration rush. I know you have used this with Brutes (and probably on your blasters too). Disallowing inspirations, when solo (where they are reliable), is unfair to the blaster AT, IMO.
No one says that when you hamstring them with extra rules blasters are great. Blasters lack defensive powers. Ruling out using the primary resource blasters have to overcome this drawback is unfair.
How about this rule? Neither player can use their secondary. It is just as valid a nonsense rule as removing inspires, IMO.
I can't say I have ever tried the technique with /dev. Nearly everything in /Dev functions as a speedbump. Gun Drone, trip mine, time bomb all are large periods of non damage. Gun Drone seems custom made to waste time and endurance, trip mine is nice but it also slows you down. Time bomb is nearly pointless. The amount of time these things chew up would be like tossing a monkey wrench into the machinery of insp combining.
Its just that as a test this whole idea is pretty poor to begin with. You have two different cars being raced by two different drivers, on two similar tracks but each one having random obstacles and bonuses being thrown onto them. When all is said and done all you walk away with is X won today and Y lost.
Maybe use a small map and let the participants pre pick their insps. The test is still likely to tell you more about their respective skill in building, skill in acquiring resources for their builds, and skill in playing their characters than it will about the quality of the sets. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fiery_Redeemer
The way I see, I interpret it a few ways.
1-To push the badgers that also TF (the 2 player types arent mutually exclusive) to have an incentive to redo a TF rather than a do once and forget, then go back to the usual TF type deal.
2-On the week that a popular TF comes up, say ITF, that week will be packed and people will skip the Quartermain weeks.
3-I put it on the same level as the Damage Taken badges. Even an OCD like player like myself puts some badges in the Ill get them when I get them category.
Now, Damage Taken requirements were reduced, so this might be too. But, for now, I see it as a background progress thing. Not a gotta get it THIS week" thing. But thats just me.
I cant see regular TF being done with, even with Incarnate Trials coming up. Blasting through a LRSF at +10 level shift will be cool, assuming they all give +1 shift, though they carefully put in Rare and Very Rare Incarnate abilities can SOMETIMES grant Incarnate characters a Level Shift. (caps by me) so they are giving themselves wiggle room in case the Level Shift turns out to be a Bad Idea (TM). Of course, I could be wrong, but I see Speed MoLRSF coming in the not so far future.
Usual practice instead of fixing what was wrong they have decided to obsolete it, while hoping the problems won't carry over. -
Quote:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Inspirations are part of the game. If you are going to compare how sets perform in a solo environment, not allowing them is a bad choice. I also am interested in what you mean by drag things out?
They would introduce a very large random element into the test -
Quote:Originally Posted by Bosstone
Honestly? I'm curious how any of the Manipulation sets would handle the Holtz/Honoree fight in Mender Ramiel's arc. A Devices Blaster can lay down a huge stack of Trip Mines, pull one of the EBs, summon a Gun Drone, lay down Caltrops around the Mines, and the EB is half dead before it's even within fighting range.
The Manips all have Immobilizes, but both EBs still have ranged attacks and you still have to take them out from 100% health. Ice has Ice Patch, Mental has Drain Psyche and TK Thrust, and Energy has Power Thrust, although I can't remember how much resistance EBs have to various status effects. I imagine Elec and Fire would have the worst time of it.
The downside is you can only ever run this mission once on any character. Makes it tough to do comparisons.
4 lucks and you mow the encounter down. Keep a spare 4 if you run long. -
Quote:Not picking on you but that attitude is why mid level recipes are so hard to come by. From a production standpoint they are amongst the most expensive things in the game to generate. You lose inf that you would have generated by playing, your character isn't fully enhanced so you have less of a relative advantage to the enemies, you need to use storage on alts for inventory and market slots for sales because your storage is limited. The turnover of the recipes is in general slow (I know I leave bids up on them for months in anticipation of making new alts)Originally Posted by Jophiel
Sticks in your craw though to be effectively paying ~175mil for a recipe that way. I don't mind dropping a million on some yellow or several million on some orange. 175,000,000 on a lvl 35 orange is a bit much
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Quote:Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Yup. I had Moonbeam on my Stalker for over a year.
Then I actually looked at the numbers, and realized that Dark Blast outperformed the hell out of it for damage (you can cast it like 6 times in the time it takes to fire Moonbeam once and wait for it to recharge--Stalker snipes have a ridiculous activation time of something like 8 seconds). I respecced and put a single Range IO enhancement in Dark Blast, and it works far better than Moonbeam in every situation.
Snipes in general are just plain poor. They seem to have been beaten to death with fear of range and fear of single target damage.
Opposite experience here. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen a blaster with a snipe and actually using it in the last month.Quote:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
While I do not like snipes and they do indeed seem unpopular on the forums, I rarely see blasters in game without them and defenders and corruptors often have them as well. I think they are quite popular, despite their many drawbacks. -
Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
I left up 11 bids on stacks of 10 ancient bone for 123 inf.
I then listed 110 ancient bones for 1 inf. None bidding. I also put up bids on one more stack of 10 at 123 inf.
First one sold for 500k, roughly 10x the last bids.
My first few stacks:
590,000
90,500
166,111
20,172,000
62,000
640,500
86,000
Guys, during the ENTIRE time this happened, there were at least 50 ancient bones up for 1 inf.
Edited: And after that:
736,313
161,031
641,000
815,000
10,000
... and that's what I had so far.
SELLERS ARE NOT AFFECTING PRICES.
ROFL. That has to be the greatest example of an experiment designed to prove nothing I have ever seen. Then it is followed by an unsupported conclusion. Whats more the conclusion is far to broad even if the experimental technique were sufficient.
Loud applause is called for here and please forward this to the journal of irreproducible results post haste.
P.S. If the glove don't fit you must acquit. -
Quote:That would be interesting to see. What parameters are you talking about for build.Originally Posted by seebs
I wouldn't necessarily expect devices to stomp traps in such a test. But you can design a test in which devices will stomp any of the Foo Manipulation sets. (And, quite easily, tests in which they'll stomp devices.)
Side note its a shame this thread has gone to the proves nothing challenge stage. -
Quote:Where do you come up with this cabal of people stuff ?Originally Posted by Camper
So, Another Fan, is it you contention that many or most market prices are being driven by a cabal of people intent on driving up prices?
Or are you just arguing that it's possible to drive up prices in some cases?
Ever since you started posting here, I've been trying to figure out what your position is, but since almost all of your posts are basically assertions that the prevailing wisdom in the market forum is wrong, or that individual posters are wrong, I've rarely heard you speak to what you actually believe.
If there is a cabal and I frequently drive prices higher why wasn't I invited ?
Does this cabal argue about who gets to wear the fez as well ?
Kidding aside, we have a market that is pitifully easy to manipulate. People come along, look, say hey I can do that and then they do it. -
Quote:ThisOriginally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Two things:
2) Typically, no one builds for "as much recharge as possible." They build for "enough recharge to run my optimal attack chain."
And thisQuote:Originally Posted by StrykerX
Extremely high recharge builds are mainly good for characters who have a long recharge power they need to make permanent. Domination or Phantom Army, for instance, are far more effective permanent than with even one second of downtime. With Blasters there aren't really any such powers though... all recharge does is let you nuke more often or use more AoEs. That's handy, but in practice you only need so much recharge to do it. My Blaster recharge goals are generally:
Not so much this.Quote:
Once I have those, there's no real need for more recharge. I'm not going to be using Rain of Arrows twice a spawn or getting Aim and Build Up every spawn with any sane level of recharge, so once I have a solid attack chain and I can use all my AoEs each fight what is more recharge really giving me?
I have aim and buildup on a 24 second recharge on my archery blasters.
This means I Aim,Buildup, Rain of Arrows every twenty four seconds. Rain is up every 20 seconds but due to its cast time it syncs very well with aim and build up.
For a long time I played an archery blaster very effectively without any consideration for defense. The ability to take out more than 2 spawn/minute alowed me to use inspirations to fill in my gaps. -
How clueless are you ?
Quote:Yes there are no real world factors but there sure as hell is better and worse.Originally Posted by Dragonkat
You know you guys make this way too easy sometimes.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=253
I'm sorry AF, but I thought there was no "Real world" factors in a video game? =p
You do grok better and worse I hope ?
Or maybe you race a pacer in gran tourismo ?
Unh hunh. I understand high schools these days will promote and graduate students to avoid giving them a social stigma as well.Quote:Either way if you want to carry yet another silly and pointless comparison one step further I'll continue to point out that what you missed yet again is that CoH isn't balanced around a Mclaren, if anything it's balanced around the pacer, or heck a soccer mom SUV. -
Quote:Originally Posted by DSorrow
At least get your facts straight. You can raise the price of an item and make profit off of it, but the point is you can't go on doing it forever. Very soon people will catch onto your scheme, either lowering the maximum sale value (other flippers) or increasing supply to a level where you can no longer control it (everyone else).
If you are going to tell someone to have their facts straight you should have yours somewhere close to straight first. We have had posters state quite simply they were able to raise prices and make a profit at it as long as they wanted and make sizable sums doing so. Hell I have been doing it for the last 3 weeks. I do it every time I need to get sales badges on an alt.
Seeing as we are talking about faith here, where is your proof that flipping stabilizes prices ? Just how much does it stabilize prices ?Quote:I believe this bit was about flipping not causing price spikes, because that's what it prevents. When flipping stuff, the bottom price rises some, but the overall price is stabilized preventing wild spikes from happening. Why does this happen? In order to get the stuff, you need to have the highest bid around (setting the minimum price), but in order to sell the price has to be low enough that people still buy everything and everything is sold by you (setting the maximum price). If another flipper comes along, the maximum price drops because they have to compete on the lowest sale price.
Please, show me how flippers do not stabilize prices in the long run. Logic dictates something completely else, but if you can prove otherwise, go on.
You have no proof of this. Its an article of faith for you. I doubt you could even define what constitutes a more stable price or the long run let alone that flipping makes it happen.
You have managed to go from flipping be able to create short term price spikes to it preventing them. Well done. What are you going for next ? Defining anything that causes prices to be more volatile as not being flipping ?
You really have trouble with the fact that our market destroys information wipes it out and makes it bothersome to get what it doesn'tQuote:Uh, you mean if you want to understand how lazy people are? Often if I put stuff up for sale at 5.1xx million inf, people try bidding 5mil, it doesn't work and they jump straight up to 7.5mil or something else that's nice and round. Even better, if the last five all say 20mil, I can confidently put my stuff up at 15.xxx mil, and pretty much every single one of them goes for 20mil because people don't bother to try lower prices.
This is almost as funny as when people told Smurphy to go read the market forum so he could find out how things worked and stop whining.Quote:It really does irk me when people let their own "tenets of faith" get in the way of logic.
Its pretty obvious that what irks you is when people challenge your tenets of faith. -
Quote:I laughed at this. I suppose there is no difference between an AMC Pacer and a Mclaren F1 in your world either.Originally Posted by Dragonkat
Wrong again chief, oh and you know what I "Smell"? Another whiff of that elitism from the guy who somehow thinks an SO slotted character is somehow not as good? Either way. -
Quote:Oh indeed !!Originally Posted by seebs
Never underestimate the power of beliefs held as dogmas with no semantic content.
Lets go over the dogmas the market forum has put forth over the years.
You couldn't raise the price of an item and make a profit off of it. That was a great one. You even had Smurphy's empty challenge of raising above the equilibrium price and making a profit. He defined the equilibrium price as the highest price you could sell at and still make a profit. I still chuckle over that.
Nethergoat's endless bit on flipping not raising prices. We got the lovely bit of spin from that trying to differentiate flipping from monopolizing. Finally ending with him holding the positions that "Flipping is not monopolization" and "Flippers can't coexist in a niche" simultaneously.
Flippers Stabilize prices. This seems to be a tenet of faith and one that is provably wrong. Just start to play with common salvage to make a profit.
I don' even want to think about the horrible reaction one poster had when people pointed out his "Anti Flipping Experiment" wasn't much of an experiment and didn't show much of anything.
If you want to understand just how inefficient our market is, just the watch the amount of inf you can make by simply shifting the price of items to odd numbers.