Xanatos
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Posts
2017 -
Joined
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Release the maps to the AE/Arena first please.
PVP on the space map = nerdgasm. -
Are you guys even trying? Rofl.
Also: the log in prompt is blank, and the mission 1 contact busy dialogue is bugged.
My offer of helping you guys with this still stands. -
The Justice Force.
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My new one:
www.formspring.com/DuggyMcFresh
My character Xanatos has outsourced his PR to Paragon's favorite rapper... -
You guys thought about promoting this via formspring? A lot of the active RP community can be found there.
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Just played this. Wasn't impressed. Seemed rushed. The new Dark Astoria content shows that the writers can do better than this. C'mon guys!
Criticism aside; If the writers want a soundboard to bounce ideas off, or even a ghost writer to save the game's storyline/direction, then by all means send me a message.
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All the old timers. The people who helped to forge this RP community. The people who are now forgotten by pretty much everyone.
I miss those guys and gals. -
I am Virtue RP.
And I don't consent to this. -
Quote:Agreed completely for the main part. My only reason for pointing out that PVP was originally intended, is that many people tend to say it wasn't as a means to justify the devs largely ignoring it post I13. Something which I take to be absolutely ridiculous.Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Let's see. They had existing PvE content in pre-beta that testers could interact with. They were actively trying to figure out what was wrong with it and how to make it work. They were making changes trying to fix what they percieved to be the biggest problems. (The well-documented whole-system overhaul that introduced Archetypes and such.)
Did they have any existing PvP content that testers could interact with? Were they actively trying to figure out how to make it work, and were they making changes to fix the problems they could see? There's not a lot of evidence (as Arcanaville noted, mostly in the fact that they were already pressed for time working on the PvE stuff) but what little there is points to the fact that no, they did not.
So from this we can in fact conclude that "The amount of 'planning' that went into 'planning on including PvP' was considerably smaller than the amount of 'planning' that went into 'planning on including PvE'."
Now, the original debate was on whether "they only bolted on PvP in response to every other MMO having it" or "they had been planning on including PvP all along". It would seem in this case, the truth is somewhere in the middle - "they had given some thought to including PvP in the game all along - but not very much thought."
Which, really, is a good summary of how PvP has been treated throughout the course of this game.
This thread has veered off topic though. Assuming Arcanaville doesn't write me another short story, I'll happily bow out. -
@Coyote_Seven
In the nicest possible way: I don't think you understand what you're talking about.
@Venture
Taking things out of context is something you do in all your reviews. I'm hardly surprised you've done the same here. -
Quote:Contrary to my best efforts, I do not live on the forums.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I lol'd. Oh, and where did Xanatos go?
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Quote:Any claim that posits something, even a null claim, requires the burden of proof. Contrast:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually trying to prove the entire negative - that the devs *never* thought about PvP at any time during the implementation of the game is, of course, impossible. However, the burden of proof is on the people attempting to assert the opposite, because in every case where we have actual knowledge its been established that they did not, or if they did the thought they put into it was nonsensical.
"I believe God does not exist"
"I do not believe that god exists"
The former has the burden of proof. The latter doesn't. You can say that you lack the belief that the devs planned PVP prior to the game, but you cannot say that you believe the devs did not plan PVP prior to the game. Sadly if you're going to assert the latter, then you have to prove a negative, which is impossible. The only alternative is to have a dev back you up. Which isn't going to happen. For this reason, you should stop making the claim that you believe the devs did not intend to put / plan to put PVP in CoH.
My original statement, the one you're contesting, said this:Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
By their own admission, the devs in the early days threw stuff on the wall and used datamining to see what stuck. If you believe the devs put any thought into how to implement the game for a reasonably fair PvP, you first have the contend with the fact that we know with certainty they didn't even do this for PvE.
"PVP was always intended for CoH. It was planned since pre-beta. As early as 2002."
Let me change it slightly:
"PVE was always intended for CoH. It was planned since pre-beta. As early as 2002."
Do you disagree with this too? Does the fact that many PVE systems were badly implemented make the above statement false? Do design changes, or system changes prior to the game being released make the above statement false? Do any of your arguments outlined against PVP apply here also against PVE?
No. They don't.
You're confusing poor planning and poor implementation with zero intention and zero planning. Hence your completely irrelevant rant against my very simple point. -
Quote:Read the post. Haha.Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Prove it.
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Quote:I don't know where to start with this. There's just too much incorrect information, fallacial reasoning, and incorrect assumption. So I'll simply say this instead of engaging you in internet debate: prove it.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's a half truth, made a quarter truth by being a statement made before City of Heroes was refactored into the game it is now. Its essentially talking about a different game that happened to share the same name as ours, made by a developer that did not factor into the final design of our version of the game**.
The truth is the devs always told themselves "one day, we'll add PvP" but they did absolutely nothing to ensure that the game could actually support it, either because they deliberately didn't bother, or because they didn't even realize you can't just trivially retrofit PvP into a game that isn't designed to support it.
In other words, the devs statements that they always intended to add PvP have as much value as dev statements that they always intended to move the corporate headquarters to the Sun.
The most accurate statement that can be made is that the original developers intended to *try* to add PvP at some future date. However, they had no idea what that would entail, or how they would go about doing it.
The arena concept is just the setting for PvP: there was exactly zero thought put into whether the powerset and archetypes had any chance of being viable in a PvP setting. The unequivocal evidence for this fact comes from the fact that the devs made many radical PvE-based balancing decisions leading up to launch with no regard for whether the original powersets were proper for PvP, or the altered versions were proper for PvP.
That game, to the best of my knowledge, never existed. In many ways, the pre-Beta paper design of City of Heroes was the Battlecruiser of MMOs. It was a set of features that even a well-funded dev team with modern technology would have a hard time delivering in a coherent game today. People talk about wanting to see "City of Heroes 2" but I'd love to see City of Heroes 0. I'm just not sure any dev team in existence today could pull it off, anywhere.
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Quote:PVP was always intended for CoH. It was planned since pre-beta. As early as 2002.Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
The truth that PVP-lovers will deny is that CoH is not meant for PVP. It only has PVP from popular demand and because all the cool kids were doing it.
"However, we do plan to implement an arena where players can engage in "friendly" bouts with one another."
-Rick Dakan
Source: http://www.actiontrip.com/previews/c...heroes_i.phtml -
Someone mentioned Astro City? Awesome!
Thanks for the writeup VK. -
To be fair "let's do an event about upcoming content prior to it being released" is something we've done on Virtue since Issue 1. Hardly a new idea.
My event was gonna be at 7pm CST outside KR police station. Sometimes people just happen upon a similar idea. It's not a big deal. Looks like I'll have to move it to Friday 3rd. Not sure what the turnout would be like on a Friday though. Guess I'll have to wait and see
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Props to whoever wrote this. This is nice.
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Dr.Warlocke is an awesome name and the event sounds intriguing. I'm probably going to be running an open RP event around that time. Here's hoping they don't clash
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New #: 536183
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Fantastic Cap!
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Release - Arc ID 536183 - "The Cosmic Crisis"
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Details
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Arc ID: 536183
Title: "The Cosmic Crisis"
Level Range: 45-50
Length: Medium - About 30 minutes
Difficulty: Very easy - Soloable on your normal solo difficulty
Alignment: Heroic
XP: Standard
Outline
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A tale of adventure in space! Help The Starfighters and the rest of the galaxy against the conqueror of the cosmos known only as...Galacton.
Can you find a way to defeat the diabolical demagogue?
Will you be able to protect the populace from his perverse plan of power?
Or will planet Earth be swept under the might of the monster's malevolent machinations?
All these answers and more, inside... -
Quote:The devs should use that costume for the Dream Doctor.Originally Posted by Turgenev
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Quote:The content was on the pre-release boards and most people who entered did so with characters they didn't intend to play. (Poison entered with a character called Scirocco...which had more than a passing resemblance to the Scirocco who ended up in game many years later.) Numina was designed by a member called "Belle", but I dunno if that's the same @Belle that's still kicking around on Virtue and on the current forums.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Was Numina originally a player's actual character that they played with, or did that player just make her up for the contest? I wasn't around for CoH's beta so I have no idea.
Most of the oldschool CoH crowd who ended up in game post on cohguru.com and I can't remember belle ever posting there. Maybe she didn't make it to release. -
CoX = City of Xanatos
So...me!