YuriFoxfirega

S'all about what makes you happy, I sez.

They're all very competitive, just that Fire and Psi are closer to the top-end then Thorny is (for the most part). If you'll be happier with a Fire/Thorn, by all means. :3 It'll definately stay competitive, unless someone's got figures showing otherwise.

I'll echo previous sentiments - Earth/Fire or Plant/Thorn. Both real solid, and function well in groups (small or otherwise).

The Ice/Psi won't exactly slouch either, though. But out of the four.. cointoss between the previously mentioned pair.

Yeah. Actually running the numbers, I can certainly see now why it's so popular, and that could be explaining a lot of it.

Still not overpowered, though, which was the OP's point. :/

I personally find the PVE points relevant, because unless you're PL'd and funded almost exclusively from a different character (entirely likely - but not how I run my ship), you're going to have to be doing something to get tricked out and to 50. That, and what are you gonna do when there's nothing going on in the PVP zones? You could certainly switch characters, but that still leaves you the problem that outside of PVP that particular character is incredibly sub-par compared to some of the other options.

I gotta consider all the angles when I look at a problem, and I tend to weigh all of them similarly.

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Ah. I keep forgetting about that. :< Which means I'll have to run another estimate...

EDIT: And with those taken into account... The new figures:

Fire Blast: 444 damage
Ice Blast: 366 damage
Psi Blast: 411 damage

Psi Blast is still lagging behind Fire, but gets a significant boost over Ice. Telekinetic Blast actually has pathetic damage using the PVP values, but Mental Blast and Will Domination both made up a huge chunk of the difference in and of themselves. Yowza.

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Now run the numbers again, but only include attacks that can be used from 120ft away (/em boost range).

I used to run a lol fly, lol tp psy/em with range slotted attacks and perma boost range. I would just hover over any squirmish and rain death from about 150ft away. Most things would be dead before they could even figure out where the attacks were coming from heh.

Outranging everyone else AND dealing high damage has its perks. You have to get double AS'd to die too, now that ET is so slow. Any attack that could follow up kill you after an AS leaves time to pop a green or two. (Not that AS+ET can kill a +hp blaster unless they pop reds )

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Archery can pull off higher numbers (428) and has a similar range advantage. Do we discount it because it's Lethal? Squishies only have 40% lethal resistance, and that's the same exact resistance they have to Psionic (barring Epic armors and Sonic 'fenders).

Psionic still only does 411.

Fire drops down to 331 (Fireball gets the full range benefit at all; Efficient, but this is a burst damage scenario we're talking about), with Electricity trailing at 277, and Ice at 323 (but it has a Hold factored in - Bitter Freeze Ray can hit that range as well). Sonic only hits 232, and Assault Rifle hilariously enough hits 421 (Full Auto cracks me up!). Energy is only at 286.

So, in rough order...

Archery (428)
Psi (411)
AR (421 - animation time kills it)
Fire (331)
Ice (323 -again, animations hurt but not enough to drop it)
Elec (277)
Sonic (232)

And that's all at max-range, but it's also worth noting that Assault Rifle can start from farther out. Snipes were discounted, though most sets would probably benefit from actually opening up with a snipe instead. This is also assuming you're Energy, and using it almost specifically for Boost Range.

Further points are that, while Psi/Nrg may be great for PVP, it's going to really suffer in specifically Group PVE through sheer lack of AoE options until the group hits hard targets (that hopefully aren't Psi or Energy reisistant).

I still don't see it as overpowered, though the comparisons were actually interesting to run. Note that secondary effects, factors besides damage, and animation times were mostly not considered (except when they were hugely excessive - Assault Rifle had 4 powers that qualified for this, one of them on a 6s cast time, and Ice had one on a 2.5s cast). This is all the base numbers (except range, which started out at 130 yards minimum - the base value [80'] plus the Boost Range bonus [60%], rounded up), and slotting will be a factor, as will Build Up/Aim.

Specific builds for specific fields are to be expected, and often 'specialists' tend to fail more often outside of their 'niche'.

EDIT: Forgot to mention and stress that once again, this is an opening burst-fire scenario. Almost universally, except for Psionic Blast and possibly Ice and Assault Rifle, almost every other set considered will be cycling their attacks far faster. Sonic, in particular, will have a ridiculous cycle time as it's only last due to having nothing but it's first two attacks available, and it's not even last by that much. Factoring in 40% PVP resistances (and my own limited experience in Siren's), that opening shot isn't going to be near enough to drop your target, especially if you can't make it all hit (It took a Rad/Sonic Defender about 30 seconds to drop my Bane Spider, and that's with Radiation Infection and Sonic's stacking -Resist factored in - If they'd been a Sonic/* Blaster instead, they'd have had a harder time landing solid hits).

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*gives Detra 1001 cookies!*

Umm Yuri.. I think we meant Southern US accents.. Not South London.

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But I gotta learn it for a character anyway.

Oi, s'a blighter of a day.

Had a barney with me trouble, and now I'm short of bees. On top of it all, I got pig's all over my best whistle, so I'm on the blink for getting a proper dog's until that gets settled.

Barring that, s'been a bully day, though.

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I think what we can take away from this thread is that NCSoft should take any left over money and invest in a fast food joint. They could call it Up and Away Burger.

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Or, alternately, City of Gyros.

The only one I have at the moment is Soviet Auspex, a third-generation legacy heroine who's grandmother originally had the name during World War II, that eventually passed to her mother, and then to her.

Soviet dream of a people's republic lives on, comrade.

Beryl Enchantress also has a patriotic costume, but I don't have a shot of it yet (as for the moment she's devoid of that slot). <.< Not sure if that qualifies.

My only point is that, in PVE, Psi Blast compares well with the top two sets while completely giving up any AoE viability at all for the honor of an additional 40' base range on it's attack chain.

In PVP, it's actually a far closer comparison (and only between Fire and Psi) then I had expected, however, everyone gets at least 40% Resistance to Psionics in PVP as well (reducing the total damage there), with the exception being Tankers, Brutes, Stalkers, and Scrappers only getting 10% base resistance... and enhancable well up to over 50% in some (most) sets with just SOs, and those sets that don't get more then 10% are purely defensive sets that get additional Psi defense instead.

However... this is kind of coupled with the fact that while every set does get some Psionic resistance base, they tend to get resistance to everything else at somewhat higher values. Invulnerability, the set with one of the bigger PVE holes of Psi damage, does however get more resistance to it (17%) then it does to Fire, Cold, or Energy (with Resist Energy/Resist Elements and Unyielding up, and all slotted).

Competes, sure, but it's also factored in already.

I don't generally tend to list any - though for long-term characters, I tend to generate short 'playlists' that cover their moods and motivations pretty well. >.> It just may take me some time to find them.

Off the top of my head, my Bot/Storm Mastermind has a few good ones... 'Absent Without Leave' by Sirenia, 'Skullcrusher Mountain' by Jonathan Coulton, and 'The Promise' by Krypteria.

Rather interested to see what the combination makes people think of, and how well it matches up with her *actual* personality.

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I would be curious why so many players consider it a weak set.

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Thorns actually has more AoEs then any other set (a ranged cone, PBAoE, a melee cone, and technically Thorntrops contributes damage [BWAHAHAHA! I'm sorry, I couldn't help giggling - the DoT period rends it's DPS laughable]), but because it has so many options.. it loses the major benefit of activation time, slotting, and endurance management cutting into it.

Thorny Assault - 201 damage in 6.8s for 39 endurance (Note: Does not include Thorntrops)
Firey Assault - 133 (248 in FE) damage in 5.67s for 28 endurance
Psionic Assault - 107 damage in 4.64s for 21.9 endurance

That's just the current live numbers, though - I'd have to actually go through and play on Test again to get the new numbers, but it boils down to that Psi and Fiery are capable of far higher bursts for far less slotting then Thorny is, and don't take it up the back-end for Endurance as well.

I've always been a bit confused as to why Thorn wasn't considered for most AoE figures, either, until I stopped to look at the end/activation times. :/

(Sidebar: If someone wants to redo my figures including the current Test numbers, I'd be ecstatic. )

EDIT: Also forgot to point out that Thorny requires far more total positioning then Firey or Psionic Assault do, as well, which was (in addition to PSW being a freak) one of the main benefits that Psi had for so long. It required no shuffling of position at all.

Further EDIT: Thought about it, and the reason Spines/* does so well for scrappers (less so for stalkers - curse you, Assassin Strike!), is that it has two significantly ranged AoEs (Throw Spines and Spine Burst), one of which is PBAoE (183 damage), and the presence of Quills (10 damage/tick) means you don't have to reposition as much. With, say, Blazing Aura or Death Shroud (and an Immobilize), you get vastly more AoE potential (23 damage/tick auras) of Firey Assault (ranged cone, PBAoE on ridiculous activation time), while still hitting harder and only having to slot 2 powers heavily for damage/recharge/acc. Endurance'll be a concern, but Fiery in particular has Consume to compensate for that (Dark just has to eat it). If you're any other secondary, though, the damage aura consideration is moot. Also worth pointing out Fiery has a second Build Up (Fiery Embrace doubles fire damage for 30s, but still provides a Build Up effect for 10s on damage for everything else).

>.> I started out making an informative post, then got distracted by a fun tangent (like I always do). Doesn't mean I have no interest in being helpful, just that I like discussion, period. Doesn't really matter what it is.

Still, going to state once again that I'm sure a fairly significant percentage of what this game makes does indeed go back into the game, just that some of it is also siphoned off to try and produce other games that either ourselves, or the rest of the world, will find just as if not more enjoyable.

...and once again giving a shameless plug where hopefully NCSoft will look: Please get an International version of Blade and Soul out as soon as possible.

I'd say I'd hope he's behaving on that honeymoon... but I've been told that frequently misses the point.

Grats, box-man! I hope every single minute becomes a happy memory.

I'd say the chicken is the only stuff I eat at McDonald's, but I've already admitted that I occasionally get cravings for things I'm not wholly sure is actually food.

So my opinion there may not be of much help.

...but even I avoid the beef and fish products!

Let me try to explain it a bit better...

Dominators, as a whole, got a 29% (melee) to 46% (ranged) damage increase. This increase effects everything, completely gratis. That's a 37% total damage increase without anything else even affecting it.

Some secondaries got an additional increase in damage, that also included an increase in recharge, and a definative 30% average increase in Endurance usage for the sets most heavily affected. The recharge and damage numbers are likely close to these total changes, though not exactly.

Dominators got a 37% increase in damage, and some of their secondaries got more then this on top of that in individual powers that had a profond increase in endurance usage and recharge times for those sets of 30% for endurance usage only, with likely similar numbers (dependent on the Damage/Rech/End Formulas) in both damage and recharge.

Is there some part of that you're missing, or is it intentional? I'll state it more clearly: Not all dominators will see an increase in recharge times or endurance usage, and if they do, it will almost assuredly be wholly in the usage of their secondary alone.

EDIT: And to further clarify - those sets that do see a significant increase in recharge may further see an endurance usage spike because they're using their primary to fill gaps between powers, and the primaries have always been fairly endurance heavy on-average to compensate for the added control values.

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QR

Ghost Widow is bearing my children.

No, I didn't read your OP.

No, you shouldn't ask how a ghost can carry children.

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Curse you!

Well then... I call dibs on Nocturne.

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...Dibs on Numina.

Dibs.

Totally dibs.

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I find McDonald's fries entirely flavorless. Like chewing old gum.

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I'm Canadian.

I find Canadian McDonald's and American McDonald's taste different... for what it' sworth I think American McD's is disgusting.

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I've been told that by other Canadians quite frequently, actually - that McDonald's there serves actual food, with taste and nutritional value.

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Thou speaketh madness!

In regards to fast food, if I have a choice... I'll go Chick-Fil-A nine times out of ten.

That other time? Sometimes, you just crave something you're really not sure you can properly identify as food. For that, I have McDonald's, KFC, and Taco Bell.

If you don't believe me about KFC, you haven't worked there (or at least the local ones - they're frightening).

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I miss Chic-Fil-A I'm not on the East Coast any more... I used to love the waffle fries.

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Amusingly, the one in our local mall has by far the most efficient line I've ever seen.

There's an ever present and changing crowd of people that stays roughly the same size all day, and they generally get orders spot-on. Every time I go there, they've got my order prepped and ready in under 10 minutes unless for some reason they need to wait on something to finish (usually because it was popular).

...every other fast-food spot (ignoring some of the pseudo-resteraunt and Asian places that actually do your order when you ask for it and not sooner) there, including the Subway, tends to have longer lines and wait times.

It's kind of awesome watching them work it. Only place I've seen turn orders around that fast is the Coffee Beanery.

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I find McDonald's fries entirely flavorless. Like chewing old gum.

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I'm Canadian.

I find Canadian McDonald's and American McDonald's taste different... for what it' sworth I think American McD's is disgusting.

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I've been told that by other Canadians quite frequently, actually - that McDonald's there serves actual food, with taste and nutritional value.

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Thou speaketh madness!

In regards to fast food, if I have a choice... I'll go Chick-Fil-A nine times out of ten.

That other time? Sometimes, you just crave something you're really not sure you can properly identify as food. For that, I have McDonald's, KFC, and Taco Bell.

If you don't believe me about KFC, you haven't worked there (or at least the local ones - they're frightening).

Oddly, not that infrequently asked for and suggested (either as costume parts, or full-on archetypeness).

And every single time... I concur most soundly.

Still, it does get brung up periodically.

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I think it would be pretty nice of them to make it 1 MA slot a year. Means that 5 year vets celebrating the 5 year Anniversary wouldn't have to pay anything.

I don't necessarily think it's going to happen, but it would be nice.

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Can't disagree with that, honestly.

But, in the 'thinking of things that would be nice' realm, I'd rather them make Vet-slots (should any be added) not subject to the cap, so vets can potentially have 13 total slots.

Despite the fact I'd only have 10.

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I agree with the Fox. After my testing I gave the changes a 7 out of 10, with 10 being Excellent. The changes help and I like them, but I feel as if there is something else missing or perhaps Castle ran out of time to take the revamp to another level all together.

Anyways, I'll be playing my doms once this goes Live.

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I'd completely forgotten the fact he'd stated that it was a now-or-hella-later kind of deal (specifically i15, or some nebulous time around i17). That's a good point, and I certainly hope he keeps tracking data to adjust things more towards the acceptable average over time. :/

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I don't know, I can't cite the source at the moment, but at one point, the devs said that they would never give away anything that people paid for, in relation to people asking for stuff like some of the add-on pack perks as veteran rewards.

I don't necessarily agree with that philosophy, but under that rationale, we won't see story slots as veteran rewards.

P.S. The helmets and prestige sprint powers don't count. The rationale provided at the time is that you weren't charged extra for the pre-order, so technically, they're not pay-for items.

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Hate to poke a hole in the argument (as this particular one does have some merit), but purchasable character slots were added in to the veteran rewards as a total deal when they gave you the option to increase your slots-per-server, in addition to the 2-free-slots-per-account deal.

Technically not the same thing, I don't think, as they had planned it from the onset (and there's been no word so far if they are planning as much for the MA arc slots), but it's also not quite the same thing as the GvE Jump Pack or other similar purchasable add-ons as well.

Ball's in the air on this one, but I think with the rather low capacity that they currently have on max arcs (8 total, including the 3 free ones everyone gets [unless you were naughty]), it's rather unlikely that they will unless those slots are (somehow) not subject to the max limit.

Those endurance/recharge adjustments also don't take into account the fact that the base damage scalar for those powers also increased. The AT scalar going up is completely independent of those changes, and as I brought up in my post on the matter, Icy Assault suffered only an 8% increase in Endurance usage on the whopping one power that got changed.

The +30% average Endurance increase only factored in the sum total of every power changed, and doesn't include the new adjustments in both recharge, damage, and endurance currently up on Test to account for the complaints of a lack of fluidity in the sets themselves.

Having actually tested the changes, I much prefer the new experience over the old. Saying again... I think it's a good step in the right direction, though it's not the exact perfect spot for the best shot, while still being far closer to goal then it was.

From the snippets I've picked up, */Fire and */Psi have less separation between them now, and are both equally valid choices. Fire's got the advantage that it still puts out fairly solid ranged ST damage as well, but */Psi didn't exactly lose it's AoE status... it just got the field changed from spamming just one button and reaping the benefits.

As for */Thorn, I don't think it got enough of a boost to really topple any of the other two, but it might still be able to actually compete. Hopefully someone with a more detailed analysis will come through, though! As I'd be rather curious myself to get the general consensus on this matter in one location for easy reference. :3

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Aion looks pretty nice

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It does, but the GameGuard rootkit -- ahem, "Anti-cheating measure" -- is something of a deal-breaker for me.

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Any particular reason? For the sake of curiosity.