_Darkblade

This has been my experience as well. Many ranged attacks can inflict just as much, if not more damage, as melee attacks. And that was the point of my previous post: often it just isn't enough to keep them at range without noticeably reducing their attack rate. Again, even though entangling alone has a problem in that regard, it's this very reason as to why the key is to use it in conjunction with glue: just keep them pinned inside the glue patch so they won't fire at you as often while you pick them off.

In order for a single target immob to really be of any benefit, it has to debuff recharge, a la web grenade. And we all know that currently that's where TA falters.

On it's own, entangling doesn't do much for you since mobs virtually keep the same attack rate they had before they were immobilized. But again, since glue a) grounds fliers, and b) can be used at least once a fight, entangling now plays a bigger role in a TA build versus before. While the fact that it's outperformed by a level one blaster secondary power is indeed an issue and certainly needs to be rectified, it still has its uses.

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I hate to bring this up, but low level TA still seems a little lacking. Flash arrow and entangling arrow seem to be the culprits, Flash arrow doesnt seem to do enough for low level survival, Its acc debuff is just too small, also single target immobs really do nothing for survivability, and dont nearly compare to the other level 1 powers.

For a set thats all debuff and no heal or buff, it better be the best, but its not, rad and dark outperform it without the limitations.

Also disruption arrow compares very poorly to tar patch, tar patch has higher res debuff, lower tier, shorter recharge, added slow. Its not remotly close to being fair. Disruption arrow needs a secondary. Remember TA is a pure debuff, it just cant be even to other sets in debuff, it has to be better, or it will continue to go unplayed.

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I agree with pretty much everything here except for your comments on disruption arrow.

Actually, tar patch now has a longer recharge time (90 secs) versus disruption (60 secs). It's true that tar has a greater debuff value, but disruption is available more often, particularly when used in conjunction with hasten. I also could be wrong on this, but I believe disruption has more range (i.e., you're able to stand further away and activate it). I'm not sure as to what other effect you have in mind to add to it, but keep in mind that PGA has sleep, glue has a slow and -recharge, and was consequently buffed with the latest patch, and oil slick has a slow and knockdown component. I honestly think disruption is fine now as is with the lower recharge, and again, since glue is now available for activation much more often, it's easier to use both powers concurrently.

Also, I referred to entangling arrow's -recharge debuff a couple posts of ago as "piddly". While that's certainly an issue that needs to be addressed, glue now grounds fliers, which makes entangling that much more important to any TA build.

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Slow enhancements can effect many different things, and each of them is displayed, even if the final values are the same. I kicked that to engineering earlier to day to see if there is an easy way of condensing things.

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It's not a power/enhancement mechanic issue, _Castle_. It's the same problem that's causing accuracy enhancement values to not appear in the tooltips. Buggy tooltip display. No accuracy values, recharge showing up as slow, etc.

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Right. When I checked, Glue and Ice Arrow had no Slow DOs slotted. The Recharge Reduction DO values were being displayed with the "Slow" label. Recharge Reduction enhancement values appear to display correctly on powers that do not have a Slow component.

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When I checked the enhancement values for both powers on my screen, I noticed the same thing.

I'd just like to post a few comments in regards to Oil Slick. Before respeccing into it on test, I had no prior experience with this power, so I'm not familiar firsthand with the frustration others have experienced in regards to lighting it.

Out of 20 attempts, it lit a total of 16 times, which amounts to (if my math is correct) a 80% light percentage. I missed the slick twice, but on both occasions I was able to follow up and light it with my very next shot.

Now, would it be better if it lit 100% of the time? Ideally, yes. But let's keep something in mind: it also slows and does knockdown, providing the user with at least a fair bit of control. Having a perfect percentage in regards to lighting it on top of all this would more likely than not invite a visit from someone wielding a nerfbat, as Soul astutely pointed out in our conversation the other night. It's probably best left as is, though notably, TA/darks and TA/psys have no way to light it, and that is a problem that should be addressed. In any case, I should be on the TR at some point over the weekend, during which time I'll do some more testing. I'm also open to some type of group effort to do this as well. Though he isn't listed in my sig, my archer's name is Sgt. Scorpion, currently level 27.

Nice summation, Lum (my TA/A defender is Sgt. Scorpion, btw.) I think you pretty much covered everything relative to our testing, so I'm just going to touch on a point or two and then give my opinion as to the direction the set needs to go from here. Forgive me if my comments mirror things that have already been stated in this thread, but please remember that we have a better chance of seeing some changes if we continue to give constructive criticism, even if it does at times get repetitive.

First, I'll briefly touch on our encounter last night with Paladin in KR. Three of us (myself, Dancing, and Bluff I believe) decide to try and take him down. But we failed miserably and ended up making a quick trip to the hospital. Now, IIRC, Giant Monsters were significantly boosted with the I7 patch, so it might be said that a team of just 3 were doomed to fail from the start. But we barely put a dent in him; in contrast, if say, a team of Rads or Darks would have decided to take him on, they would have been able to put up a much better fight due to the higher quality of debuffs at their disposal, even though the end result may very well have been the same.

In other words, the recent changes to TA are much welcomed and appreciated, and go a long way towards enhancing the quality of the set. It makes a TA defender's contribution on a team more meaningful, which is an area where it was lacking. But it still needs more. And while there's a number of issues that are still outstanding (entangling's piddly -recharge, the almost non-existant aftereffects associated with ice, for example), I honestly believe that if 2 major steps were taken with it, it would go from being a good set to a very strong one.

Flash Arrow: the auto-hit and pseudo-stealth is nice, but it really needs it's accuracy debuff component strengthened, particularly in light of the debuff schedule change from A to B. Even the description of the power lends itself to this conclusion: "the targets are so blinded that they can hardly see a thing." Well, if that's true, how can they see enough to be able to hit you so readily and often, as if they weren't even affected?

Poison Gas Arrow: the -damage effect is noticeable, and the sleep is a welcome addition, but as others before me have already noted, it really does need a -regeneration component. It's true that EMP already has one, but it's on a long timer, and in comparison, Rad has Lingering Radiation, which it can fire off more consistently and contains -regen, and EM Pulse, which IIRC has the same recharge duration as EMP Arrow and does the same thing.

If those 2 aspects alone were fixed, what would we have? A set that would debuff accuracy, defense, damage resistance, recharge, health regeneration, and mob speed, along with an immobilize (despite the low -recharge on entangling, it becomes that much more important to a TA build because of the revised recharge on glue), 2 holds, and a power that gives you a knockdown effect as a bonus. And more importantly, since this is a debuff only set, with no heal and no direct team buffs to speak of, it would do it at a level very comparable to Dark and Rad, which we all know are considered the kings of debuffing sets, and many of us have regularly pointed out that this is the ballpark where TA needs to be. The proposed change to Flash alone would greatly help low level TA defenders, since they would have an additional tool available to them that would mitigate a good chunk of incoming damage, both for themselves and for their teammates.

So at this point, sure there's still a few issues with TA that need to be worked out. They're all legitimate ones, and in no way do I mean to say that they don't have any significance. It's hoped that they're all addressed in time. But the factors I mentioned above are major ones, and are what I believe the only 2 that are left that prevent it from taking a major step forward.

I just copied my lvl 27 TA/A defender over to test last night. I'd like to use a banked respec and drop fitness, specifically to choose a couple powers that were changed so as to test them. (I dropped entangling, and haven't picked up oil slick yet). I wanted to play him some tonight, but I got preoccupied with my elec/elec brute. Anyway, his name is Sgt. Scorpion, so if anyone wants to hook up and run mish's or whatever for testing purposes, /friend him and send a tell.

I will say that from the short time I did play him that the set is much improved with the changes to glue and disruption alone. Admittedly, it doesn't solve all it's problems, but it's a good start.

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NOTE: Before you ask--yes, what I've shown here states that recharge enhancements are NOT allowed in the 15 minute recharge pet powers.

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This last statement is very telling. If anything, it strongly suggests that the PPP pets come with a full range of attacks- equal to what you'd see as if you were fighting against them. Their use would clearly then be situational, for example, summoning one so as to help in defeating an AV or Hero. The duration/recharge ratio only underscores this, and when you throw in the fact that you can't slot recharges, it becomes clear that the devs felt it would be against the grain in regards to game balance if they were available more often. Or the info given to us could very well be wrong.

That's just my 2 cents. Of course, the jury is still out until someone reaches level 47 so as to obtain the pet for testing (barring a level bump given out by Cryptic.)

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Reference for Corruptors...
Summon Mistress
* Ranged Moderate Damage (Psi)
* No secondary effect listed
* Duration: 4 mins or upon zoning (map or mission)
* Range: N/A
* END: 26
* Recharge: 900 secs

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Bleh. If this duration/recharge ratio remains the same once I7 goes live, I'll have serious reservations at the very least about choosing this power.

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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.

Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.

In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.

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If I'm understanding this correctly, are you saying that scrapper mez protect powers (integration, etc.), will be nerfed (again) sometime in the future? And that the primary reason behind this change would be PvP? What about people like myself, who don't engage in PvP combat? Wouldn't this be unfair to them? Or is this strictly a PvP change?

Posi said that CURRENTLY there isn't any way to switch to a different patron because the powersets are tied to the content. Again, the key word here is currently. That's not to say that sometime in the future that won't change. The impression I get is that if they ever come up with the content to allow such a thing, then it'll be possible.

I can understand why a lot of people are alarmed, but there's just too much that we don't know yet. We know there's a total of 4 patrons. We don't know how many powersets each one will offer, and aside from a comment about being able to summon a bunch of shark spirits, we know nothing about what they do. So let's wait until I7 hits test, which (in my mind) will likely be in early April, try out some of these powers for ourselves, and then pass judgment.

Also, I don't know if this was mentioned or not, but the impression I get is that while we won't be able to respec out of patron powersets, the powers themselves will be interchangeable when we respec. I just don't see the devs not at least giving us that much leeway.

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Just in case no on noticed, there are new sound effects for Acid Arrow and Rain of Arrows.

It's not much, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

How they got to the top of the priority list, I don't know.

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I have a ways to go before I get RoA, but I did notice the new sound effects on Acid. Why they didnt do something a lot more practical, such as enlarging the AoE so that is actually matches the graphic, is beyond me.

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The reason my TA/A defender can't solo anything but heroic is quite simple really. Since there's no freaking way I can actualy prevent damage other then ice arrow, a boss tears me apart. It's the small fact that Ice Arrow can't hold a boss ever. Against minions I can lessen damage enough that 3 or 4 enemies is survivable, barely.

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I know exactly what you mean about ice arrow. Mine is 6 slotted (1 acc/3 recharge/2 hold duration) simply because there's no other way currently (until I get EMP, which is on a longish timer) to completely shut down a mob to keep him from hitting me. At least with this setup I can make a double application if necessary so as to hold a boss.

My level 25 TA/A currently solos on the lowest setting as well, and as of now I wouldn't dare up the mission difficulty. Even taking on so much as 2 or 3 even cons at times can be hazardous, and I often find myself having to make speeding retreats so that I can rest up and continue the fight (he doesn't have the medicine pool- not yet anyway).

I'm actually looking forward now to the coming buff to PGA. With a 50 to 66% chance to sleep, it'll be very much worth it to slot for sleep duration enhancements. Then it'll be a more useful tool to mitigate incoming damage.

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And we dont believe your assertion of how high Flash Arrow is. From what I can tell your evidence is based off of one passing quote from Castle where he says "it's identical to Smoke grenade". Then you mathematically applied an AT modifier and enhancement modifiers to reach your 20% assertion.

When the set first came out someone did actual testing with Flash Arrow and concluded that the base debuff was about 7 or 8%. Unfortunately I can't seem to find that thread anymore, may have scrolled off the boards. Anyway since this fits much closer to my own experience than your 20%, I'm not believing your assertion unless a red name states it...twice. Or at least until someone has some numbers that they themselves have tested to show that the debuff is higher than 8%.


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My guess based on experience is that its about 10% unslotted, which would make it 20% slotted. But it might be very hard to tell the difference between 20% and 16% (which is base 8% 3-slotted) without a very long set of trials. In fact, in general most accuracy tests have a margin of error on the order of one to two percentage points, which makes a measured 8% well within the margin of error of a true 10% number unless the tester tested many thousands of swings.

In other words, 8% doesn't contradict 10% unless the margin of error on those tests were very tight (probably at least 5000 swings).

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The 8 to 10% numbers seem to coincide with my own experiences. I've never run any hard tests on FA, but I can tell you that even when I get good mob coverage with it that I'm hit a whole lot more as opposed to when I plant either RI or DN with my rad or dark defenders. Sure, anchors do have a couple disadvantages: they seperate from mobs, or somebody just ups and knocks them to the four winds. But when it comes to overall safety, I'd put my hard-earned money on RI or DN before I'd invest it in Flash Arrow.

Regarding my own experiences with flash arrow (my TA/A defender is level 24):

I originally chose it when I created him, and I eventually went on to 6 slot it (2 acc/4 acc debuffs -all +3 DOs). Despite using it on a group of mobs (blues at the time- it was an old mission) and trying to pull around a corner, I was still peppered with a menagerie of bullets. Fed up with it, I used a freebie respec I had and dropped it for entangling. I've since picked up ice arrow and found myself using entangling less and less, so I recently used yet another freebie respec and got rid of entangling, and hence had no other choice but to revisit flash arrow. As of now, I only have 2 accuracy enhancements in it, and to this day nothing has convinced me to invest any more slots into this power. In my opinion, it's only a slightly gussied up version of smoke grenade and nothing more.

Now I'll add comments in regards to TA as a whole. All in all, I am enjoying playing my character. It requires much more patience to do so compared to both my rad and dark defenders, and you have to work a lot harder to achieve the same type of results that you would get with either of those 2 sets. But I knew that going in, and it's not something I really have a problem with at the moment.

However, my being pleased with him overall doesn't mean the set doesn't have problems that need to be addressed-preferably sooner, as opposed to later. The long animations can be a hindrance at times, especially when on a team that's killing things quickly. When I do team with him (which isn't often), many times my target is dead before my shot even goes off, or he's switched positions, forcing me to fire since I'm still locked in the animation. _Castle's_ recent post indicated that this is by design to achieve the smooth look of him firing an arrow, so my guess is that that aspect isn't likely to change. (That's probably the reason why I enjoy playing him- he seems to have a smoothness to him that my other defenders don't have). But as good as it looks, TAs debuffs lack sufficient punch to make up for it. Either they're saddled with long recharge times (see glue, poison gas, disruption, ice-even though this power was addressed primarily with the rest of the defender holds in the nerf-fest of I5, and oil slick), or they don't have enough of an effect (see flash, ice arrow's -recharge component, poison gas's sleep), or don't contribute anything really useful (entangling would have been handier ten times over if it stopped mobs from firing at me so much.) There is a noticeable improvement in performance once hasten is added into a TAs build, but then again, pretty much half it's powers can't be used every fight without it. And while it can be argued that you don't necessarily use all your debuffs every fight (I often don't), TA is the ONLY defender primary where this is the case. Thus, the current predicament TA finds itself in pretty much guarantees that my character will never be as effective as my other defenders, and I say that with confidence despite only going about halfway through it. And particularly because other sets exist that give the same or better results with a lot less effort, lots of people understandably feel that the time invested so as to receive a payoff really isn't worth it.

However, maybe the coming fix for poison gas is a sign of good things that are soon to come. I was at least halfway expecting that TA would get the major overhaul it needs once I7 comes down the pipe, but _Castle's_ recent comments suggest otherwise. But, one can always hope. As of now though, TA is best suited as a controller (or mastermind) secondary, when the said controller/MM can use powers from his primary to fill in the gaps and shortcomings, rather than a defender primary.

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Which ones are worth it? The button-mashing damage dealers sure don't know, and I am beginning to become skeptical about their effectiveness. Flash arrow rocks, I know that, but other than that....someone please let me know if poison gas, acid, or disruption arrow is worth it.

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I recently fixed the Sleep portion of Poison Gas Arrow for all AT's, and fixed the fact that it was single target instead of AoE for Masterminds and Controllers. So, that one may be a bit better than folks are reporting in I7.

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I appreciate the attention that was given in fixing this problem, but I would think that the sleep component would be counterproductive. Assuming mobs are slept, you would just continue attacking them (or more likely, your teammates would do it if you're grouped), and/or you would use it in conjunction with another debuff. Either way, the effect is broken. Couldn't this be changed to a disorient instead?

That's actually what I was thinking of in regards to it too. A targetted AoE, like tar patch, that pulls foes within a certain radius towards its center and maybe dealing some type of minor crushing damage. But as it is, it's a completely worthless power that in reality doesnt do anything except attract a large amount of aggro to you once you use it. It really needs to be reworked.

Castle, along with the rest of the defender community, I'd first like to say thanks for all the time and effort you put into researching all of the various issues listed within our powersets. Unfortunately, most of your responses contained something that we didn't want to hear: that they were working as designed. And, it's particularly troubling that a lot of that information was weighted more toward controllers rather than defenders in regards to effectiveness. As I'm sure you realize, the defender community is now pretty much up in arms in regards to all this.

Without rehashing pretty much everything others have mentioned so far in this thread (since my main hero is a defender, I agree with nearly 100% of it), I'd just like to point out that it supports an opinion that us defenders have held onto for a long time, and that we continue to have. It's this: a controller with holds, mezzes, sleeps, containment, and debuffing abilities that they wield from using a defender primary as a secondary is in a much better position to safeguard and defend a team against incoming threats than a defender. In short, they out-defend defenders. When you throw in the fact that they also get the option at level 41, via Indomitable Will, to provide themselves with a great amount of status defense, the differences between defenders and controllers become even more glaring.

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With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.

Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.

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Thanks, Positron, but you've really done nothing more than simply throw us a bone. The main issue isnt endurance, since part of the 'diversifying' will be using end reducers in our powers. It's the fact that the sets that rely on defense and damage resistance have taken yet another sore beating by the nerf bat that you guys continue to wield. So when we see a corresponding increase in defense, damage resistance, as well as a reduction in the ridiculously long recharge times of a lot of powers as a result of the I5 nerf, and a base increase in damage, then this idea of 'enhancement diversification' will be moving in the right direction.

hey, statesman. some time ago, it was proposed that black hole from the dark miasma set would be turned into a toggle, instead of a click power. has this been worked on, and if so, will it be in issue 3?
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Darkblade - 3D Defender- Security Level 41
Protector

The Origin of Darkblade.
Evann Drake realized that he was different. Not different as in different hobbies or interests, but as in strangely different.
It all began when he was still in high school. One day he walked in late to his physics class. As he went to sit down, all of a sudden everyone within 5 feet of him began screaming and shouting, and scrambling to get away from him as fast as possible. It was almost as if they had seen a ghost. To them, he suddenly became repugnant, and they didn't want anything to do with him. This strange, out of the blue classroom disruption would be talked about for weeks.
Then there was the time when he went out on a date with his girlfriend, and afterwards they decided to make out. After a passionate kiss of about 2 seconds, his girlfriend felt strangely weak and lethargic, and what made even less sense was that at the same time his energy and adrenaline level went up. It was like he literally sucked some of her life right out of her.
Shortly after that, he got into a fight with some idiot as school. It was so trivial he couldn't remember how it got started. He only got in one punch, but it was enough. The poor kid was knocked back, then he was almost paralyzed, but at the same time sort of rocking back and forth and losing energy over a period of about 2 minutes. He wound up being suspended for a week.
He had a close relationship with his parents, Roberta and Evann Drake Sr., so naturally he told them that something was wrong, that he was having this weird effect on people. At first, his parents just listened, but Evann could tell they were being strangely silent. Clearly, they were withholding something from him. After some more heated discussions, his parents decided it was in the best interests of their son to come clean.
They then related to Evann a particularly dark period of their lives. During WWII, Evann Sr., having enlisted in the U.S. Army, was stationed in Nazi Germany. One night, after eating dinner in a restaurant, they were suddenly accosted and kidnapped by a group of Nazi soldiers. They were then interrogated and subjected to some truly inhumane scientific experiments. They didn't tell Jr. exactly what was done to them for two reasons:first, they were still in a sort of denial as to what happened, and second, they didn't want to freak him out beyond what was absolutely necessary. The most important thing was that they both somehow survived, despite the heavy scars they would carry for the rest of their lives. Later, Roberta unexpectedly became pregnant, and it was an occasion both of joy and of dread. They both hoped and prayed that the experiments wouldn't have an adverse effect on their unborn child. Now, their worse nightmare came to light.
Evann's parents then panicked. Even though he caused these things to happen to people he came in contact with, Evann himself felt fine and up until now suffered no ill effects. Of course, they had no way of knowing if that would continue to be true. So, the day after this discussion, his father made contact with a close friend that also happened to be a renowned geneticist-Dr. Benjamin al Zahib. His laboratory was in England.
After several tests, it was discovered that Evann wasn't just different, but radically different. The term 'mutant' wasn't entirely unfamiliar to him;he understood it to be a somewhat rare and deformed act of nature, which naturally made him even more uneasy. They found out that he had a vast reserve of negative energy swirling around in his body which didn't seem to adversely affect him, even though it had the power to somehow drain energy from other people, and even affected their emotions, making them feel fear. Dr. Zahib couldn't guarantee that Evann wouldn't someday suffer the same symptoms he caused in others, but made them all promise to return for further treatment if that ever became the case.
Fast forward to the present. Evann is now 30 years old, having graduated from high school some 12 years ago, and also having undergone other numerous, strange, and even embarrassing incidents since then. But even more importantly, his beloved Paragon City is now under the heavy effects of the Rikti invasion;it's now only a shadow of what it once was. What if Evann could somehow use these 'dark' powers he had for the benefit of other people? One night, after witnessing a particularly brutal mugging, he decided that he had had enough. He decided to learn to cope with any uncertainties he had regarding his physical makeup, somehow control and hone his powers to the best of his ability, and rid Paragon City of all the scum that filled its streets. Finally, after brooding for what seemed like forever and designing his own costume, Darkblade was born.
But there was one final thing he had to make sure of. He had to keep this a total secret from his parents and his current girlfriend. Because if they ever found out that he was running the streets fighting bad guys, dodging bullets and who knows what else, and constantly putting himself in harm's way, they would kill him.