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Posts
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So I just had to wonder if you'd taken 2XP weekend into consideration...I don't think the heuristic rank checks are going to be happy about that.
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Good to see you working on this, Archie. I just shot you an e-mail of my log from last night running the Mender Silos TF.
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The nice thing is that once the builds are done and you don't have anytihng in particular to spend your inf on, it piles up fast.
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This is another anecdote, but I noticed that getting through the early levels solo has been going faster by setting my difficulty to -1,2. It gives me a few more mobs at low levels, but the XP piles up fast enough that running through Azuria's missions gets me above level 5 more quickly than it did just running the lowest difficulty on the old system.
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Quote:Alright, as much as I want to keep playing and continue to avoid my homework, I need to get to it. Here is my sampling after running five missions from Borea in the RWZ in the Training Room. My cumulative total is at the bottom of the code box.Edit: Or rather, I am going to run some tests after the updater has finished updating
Code:09/28/2009 Character: Level 50 Kat/WP Scrapper Difficulty: +0/8/yes/no Mission 1: Server: Training Room Zone/Mission: V_Caves_30_Layout_04_01 Foes: Rikti ---------------------------------------------------------- Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.4.0 http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/ ---------------------------------------------------------- Defeats Minion Lieut. Boss Under. Pet Grey Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- 73 57 12 2 0 0 2 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Drops Total Common Uncommon Rare Very Rare ---------------------------------------------------- Pool A 4 3 1 0 0 Pool B 1 Salvage 5 4 1 0 Inspirations 30 24 6 0 ---------------------------------------------------- Other Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Inf. Rewards 72 (384,031 inf, 0 xp, 0 debt) Vanguard Merits 10 Enhancements 1 single origin enhancements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool DropRate Drops Expected Mobs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 4.60% 4 1-7 87 minion equivalents Salvage 6.31% 5 3-12 79 minion equivalents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) Mission 2: Server: Training Room Zone/Mission: SmoothCaves_30_Layout_02 (5:51) Defeats Minion Lieut. Boss Under. Pet Grey Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- 73 46 13 8 0 0 6 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Drops Total Common Uncommon Rare Very Rare ---------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1 1 0 0 0 Salvage 5 5 0 0 Inspirations 36 21 13 2 ---------------------------------------------------- Other Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Inf. Rewards 68 (490,593 inf, 0 xp, 0 debt) Vanguard Merits 13 Enhancements 1 single origin enhancements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool DropRate Drops Expected Mobs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1.04% 1 1-7 96 minion equivalents Salvage 5.66% 5 4-14 88 minion equivalents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) Mission 3: Server: Training Room Zone/Mission: Abandoned_Office_30_Layout_03 (6:03) Defeats Minion Lieut. Boss Under. Pet Grey Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- 124 86 15 9 4 0 9 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1 rewarding mobs of unknown rank Guardian (1) failed heuristic rank check Drops Total Common Uncommon Rare Very Rare ---------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2 2 0 0 0 Salvage 16 13 2 1 Inspirations 56 43 11 2 ---------------------------------------------------- Other Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Inf. Rewards 117 (593,545 inf, 0 xp, 0 debt) Vanguard Merits 18 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool DropRate Drops Expected Mobs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1.40% 2 1-9 143 minion equivalents Salvage 11.93% 16 6-18 134 minion equivalents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) This run (3) resulted in failure and had an ally to assist which was likely the cause of the failed heuristic rank check. Mission 4: Server: Training Room Zone/Mission: V_Abandoned_Office_30_Layout_02 (6:21) Defeats Minion Lieut. Boss Under. Pet Grey Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- 113 65 22 16 0 0 10 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Drops Total Common Uncommon Rare Very Rare ---------------------------------------------------- Pool A 5 4 1 0 0 Salvage 12 9 3 0 Inspirations 49 37 10 2 ---------------------------------------------------- Other Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Inf. Rewards 104 (780,905 inf, 0 xp, 0 debt) Vanguard Merits 14 Enhancements 3 single origin enhancements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool DropRate Drops Expected Mobs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 3.18% 5 2-10 157 minion equivalents Salvage 8.32% 12 6-19 144 minion equivalents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) Mission 4: Server: Training Room Zone/Mission: SmoothCaves_30_Layout_02 (6:40) Defeats Minion Lieut. Boss Under. Pet Grey Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- 91 73 11 4 0 0 3 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Drops Total Common Uncommon Rare Very Rare ---------------------------------------------------- Pool A 3 3 0 0 0 Pool B 1 Salvage 6 5 1 0 Inspirations 42 27 15 0 ---------------------------------------------------- Other Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Inf. Rewards 89 (427,010 inf, 0 xp, 0 debt) Vanguard Merits 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool DropRate Drops Expected Mobs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.80% 3 1-7 107 minion equivalents Salvage 5.99% 6 4-15 100 minion equivalents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::: TOTALS ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ---------------------------------------------------------- Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.4.0 http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/ ---------------------------------------------------------- Defeats Minion Lieut. Boss Under. Pet Grey Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- 474 327 73 39 4 0 30 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1 rewarding mobs of unknown rank Guardian (1) failed heuristic rank check Drops Total Common Uncommon Rare Very Rare ---------------------------------------------------- Pool A 15 13 2 0 0 Pool B 2 Salvage 44 36 7 1 Inspirations 213 152 55 6 ---------------------------------------------------- Other Drops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Inf. Rewards 450 (2,676,084 inf, 0 xp, 0 debt) Vanguard Merits 70 Enhancements 5 single origin enhancements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool DropRate Drops Expected Mobs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.54% 15 9-25 590 minion equivalents Salvage 8.06% 44 32-57 546 minion equivalents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.)
Another expression of thanks to all the work done on the part of Synapse, Pohsyb and the rest of the team who uncovered the original problem is in order. Thank you for all you do and for finding a solution so quickly. You were seriously underestimated by some. -
Nope, check out the patch notes in the Training Room forum. It includes a fix for the drop rate. I'm going to run some tests right now.
Edit: Or rather, I am going to run some tests after the updater has finished updating.
Edit Edit: Good timing on the release of the new dropstats, Archie....just in time for this patch. -
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Quote:I know that the uber build for soling AVs and general game-play at 50 and the 'exemp friendly' build for lower-level task forces is the way I have my toons set up. It isn't a bad way to go at all.Given this, I'm pondering whether it makes sense to have two builds - one for the 50+ content and one for SSK'ing in the lower level content. As shown by the example from the OP here, it'd be quite easy and cheap to put together a very effective SSK build consisting of lower level IO sets, yet also still be effective at 50th level. Thoughts on this?
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Quote:Drop rates are low which has been discussed in extravagant detail in another thread and the matter is being addressed. However, I think this is nothing more than finding a data set that conveniently fits an already-established perception of the game.PvP recipe drops with roughly the same kill count.
Hero- 5 recipes
Villain- 1 recipe
Drop rates seem low overall and are clearly inconsistant.
Oh boy, I'm starting to sound like Synapse! -
Quote:Shoot, I'm going to come across as splitting hairs, but I'm really not trying to be a jerk or anything in taking a slightly contrary position again. My main is a scrapper and I've found it extremely uninteresting to go very far with other classes, even on the villain side. Such being the case, I have to defend the scrapper boards a little. Yes, most of the posts there show how to get the uber build, which of course requires the uber shineys, but I've also seen a good number of posts on how to create less expensive, yet quite effective, builds.True, I didn't look at it from that aspect. And yes you're right Organica, they will show you how to min/max with uber amounts of inf that only the market pros have :P. Thanks for clearing that up Agent.
Often somebody will come into the scrapper domain and ask how they can even afford 'cheap' build and they are referred here to the market forum to learn how to make influence. I wouldn't say this is because of any lack of knowledge on their parts, but because this is where all the knowledge of the ages is stored when it comes to profiting from the use of the market.
It always makes me roll my eyes to hear somebody say that using the market is not playing the game as intended. I know nobody has been so disparaging on this particular thread, but I feel like writing right now so if you're loosing interest in the post, I'll understand if you say TL;DR and move on.
The market is a wonderful tool in being able to complete enhancement sets. Could you imagine how much time you'd have to sink into this game hoping for that one drop to finally get the sixth enhancement in a set after waiting for what seems an eternity for the other five. Personally, I think I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon.
I know there are advocates of the store, but those who make this demand, I think, fail to realize the business aspect of an MMO. In order to make a profit, people have to play the game. If everything is automatically available at low prices in a store, things could be acquired extremely quickly and then you'd be stuck in the waiting game for more content or a new power set proliferation or some other feature that would hold your interest. I think the 'drop rate' of new content is such that people would probably loose interest and move away from the game. Too few players in the game means that the game would dwindle until it would finally be scrapped.
The bottom line is that you can get enjoy the bulk of this game on SOs. It is enhanced with the various invention sets, but that enhancement takes some investment and time to acquire, thus making the game thrive and continue to exist because the subscription fees continue to roll in. If you want the best sets, you need to be prepared to invest the best amount of time. -
Quote:I can't say why, but my standard 'go to' missions are generally Borea. Chewing through Rikti is highly satsifying to me. I kind of RP the fact that I am a lone force in the world that is being quickly overrun by the alien horde. Perhaps it isn't all that creative, but it's how I enjoy the game. I'd enjoy the romans more if I had better defense debuff resists, but a tray full of purples usually helps.During the last (and pretty much every) double XP weekend, someone on our server runs "Endless Borea" missions (or as I like to call it "Endless Boring"). 8-person groups for every waking hour he was on during that three days -- not ONE purple dropped for anybody this past x2 XP.
Incidentally, I did come across a Soulbound Allegiance (Rech/Acc) Recipe last night against the Rikti. It seems like the last purple I got was also from this group. While I don't need it, I'm going to happily craft it and put it on the market at the earliest opportunity. -
I think this post is perfectly fine. It is a perfect example of what can be done to make a solid character with very minimal investment on the market. The OP geared it mostly to the fact that a good build can be build without having to go for all the uber shinies.
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Wow, suddenly I have been reminded of Marshal from Alias. It was a plot by Sloan to secure a Rimbaldi artifact. It was Sydney's task to plant a super-secret virus into the servers of NCSoft and then report back to SD-6.
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Quote:Most excellent news! I'll be looking forward to hitting the test server....keep us posted!I just wanted to let you know you can probably stop recording data, a fix for this should be making its way to the training room fairly soon. Your drop analysis there, when this patch hits the training room, would be very useful. Thanks for everyone's diligence, and believe it or not the bug had nothing to do with team size, what map you were on, whether you were in taskforce mode or not or anything else mentioned in this thread.
Regards,
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Quote:Salvage has been seeming to rain from the sky on my main character and so am not at all surprised to see the shift in salvage prices. Everything except oranges gets listed for 100 (for some reason I just like those zeroes), and the rare salvage gets placed in a salvage rack in my base either for use later in crafting, or for one of my lowbies to take and sell for a bit of seed influence.Actually, seems to be the opposite. I've seen Hami goo for 500k RITE NAO, and a number of other orange rares for between 700 and 900. Highest I've seen was 1.5m RITE NAO.
I'm attributing this to a decline in the number of recipes worth crafting coming into the game. We'll see what happens over the weekend, but oranges haven't gone up yet.
It seems that the proc in this set is a popular one in anything that is looking to do more damage whehter a blaster or my favorite scrapper. I just want one of the PvP -resist procs to add a little more. Last time I checked they'd stack. -
Quote:Amen to that. I've had my own marketeering mishap or two, but thankfully I never put all my eggs in one basket. I always work in two or three areas at any given time, though lately I've found myself more interested in testing drop rates than playing with the market. I've just been crafting and selling whatever set IOs happen to come along and am still making a fair amount of influence. Ah the beauty of playing a tricked out toon with no immediate need for anything in particular. Any gems I happen to come across as drops I stash in my base and I still finding my wallet a little heavier.Every once in a while ya screw up and eat a big chunk of inf. At least I do.
Hopefully you have enough other schemes going that one big ouch won't wipe you out.
As to how long I leave things up...I don't move in the high end stuff and usually don't like to wait for more than a week for something to sell, but that's just me. -
Quote:Thanks for the continued help on figuring this out, Synapse. While I was a little harsh on the evaluation of your last post, it's good to see that you're still looking into this. It will be nice to iron out this wrinkle on an excellent new issue.Very very good point. I was in fact in Ouroboros mode. I'm going to do some testing outside of Ouroboros. I think we're getting closer to finding out what is actually going on here. Thanks for everyone's diligence. We're still looking into this.
Synapse
I know it's a little off topic, but this really has been a pretty sweet issue. I've played around a little bit with the power customization and love the extra dimension it adds to a character. Hats off to you, Babs, and all the rest of the Dev team! -
Quote:Now I think you're going a little extreme there. As far as I am concerned I just think that 15 missions on non-live servers is not a fair representation of the conditions on live. I know the code is probably the same, but I think there may be other factors that lead to what is causing the problem and the only way to see it is to play on the live version of the game.Since we're in waiting mode, can we please put the tinfoil hats and conspiracy goggles away and stick to the facts until rednames do more investigating? There's no good thing to come from flying off on the handle and accusing the Devs of intentionally ruining your Christmas.
For a little while I designed web pages for my own amusement. I could tweak them and get them to look perfect on my own system, but then I would look at them on somebody else's and they had issues displaying properly. I think this is a parallel situation.
In his post, Synapse said that there was some unchanged data that was looked at. It would be nice to have a little more information as to what that data was. I don't think he was referring to the data we've accumulated in this thread, though it seems he at least took a cursory look through what we have...thought at 300+ posts, I'm sure it's a lot to wade through.
Quote:...I'll try and switch up characters more often, at least once in a while, to run the same maps and see if I can get different results.
Now I think you're being a little too harsh there. Synapse could just as easily have not said anything, but I am going to hold onto the hope that he is honest about his endeavors to explore this problem and find a solution once the cause of the problem has been nailed down. This issue has only been live for a little over a week, so let's give the development team some more time and keep running our own tests, altering the parameters to see if we can't lock down the problem so a solution can be found. -
Hmmm...so I changed from being in SG mode and noticed my rates are a lot lower...though i think this is an issue with DropStats (I know you're working on it, Archie)...not a bug in CoX.
Edit: now that I think about and after looking at my logs from the last two days, I only got 3 recipes tonight running 3 missions where last night I had 9 recipes and the night prior I had 13. So to suddenly only be getting three makes me think that either SG mode or scanner missions might have some effect on the rates.
I'm going to alternate the next few nights between being in and out of SG mode and see if that doesn't yield any differences. Anybody else is more than welcome to join me in seeing if this isn't the cause of the borked recipe drop rates. Salvage still seems to be raining from the sky.
Code:Runs 09-23-2009 Level 50 Kat/WP Scrapper +0/8/yes/no Supergroup Mode: Disabled Mission 1: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: Caves_30_Layout_05_02 Targets: Circle of Thorns Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 0.66% 1 2-10 152 minion equivalents Salvage 8.50% 12 6-19 141 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 93 rewarding mobs defeated 20 bosses and elite bosses 20 lieutenants 52 minions Mission 2: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: Caves_30_Layout_02_02 (8:13) Targets: Carnival of Shadows Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1.06% 1 1-7 94 minion equivalents Salvage 9.43% 8 3-13 85 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 66 rewarding mobs defeated 7 bosses and elite bosses 15 lieutenants 43 minions Mission 3: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: Office_30_Layout_06_01 (8:26) Targets: Circle of Thorns Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 0.00% 0 2-11 222 minion equivalents Salvage 10.60% 22 10-25 208 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 125 rewarding mobs defeated 35 bosses and elite bosses 28 lieutenants 61 minions Total Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 0.43% 2 7-21 468 minion equivalents Salvage 9.69% 42 25-47 434 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 284 rewarding mobs defeated 62 bosses and elite bosses 63 lieutenants 156 minions 3 rewarding mobs of unknown rank Clemalion (1) Kara (1) Behemoth Overlord (1) failed heuristic rank check 0 pets and 14 greys 2 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats) 0 uncommon and rare recipes 2 common recipes 1 Pool B recipes (Mission Complete) Expedient Reinforcement: Acc/Dam/Rech (Recipe) 43 salvage 2 rare 7 uncommon 34 common
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Quote:It is rather insulting to think that a mere 15 missions run on non-live servers substantiate a claim of a 'perception issue' on the small community of us that have defeated thousands of MOBs and made a very precise measurement of what the rewards of those defeats have been.No data to provide, more than enough has been to warrant extensive further investigation and to convince you that your initial testing has not satisfied the issue.
I could understand if there were cries of low drop rates without any documentation or data to back up the cries. Unfortunately, this is far from the case demonstrated in this thread. We have been keeping track of how many defeats, what class they were, and what rewards were yielded based on our chat logs from the game. We even have an individual who has created a script to parse our data and stream it into a very understandable form.
I, for one, am not going to be so quickly dismissed and continue to run missions and extrapolate data. If it falls on deaf ears..well then I guess I will adapt and have a somewhat diminished view of the development team for this game.
Others might not be so generous and that is what worries me the most. -
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Okay, the sampling is rather small, but these numbers actually look correct. I have tried to be as detailed as possible with my records. Please let me know if anything is lacking:
Code:Diff: +0/8/yes/no Char: Level 50 Kat/WP Scrapper Mission 1: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: SmoothCaves_30_Layout_08 - Rikti Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.78% 3 1-7 108 minion equivalents Salvage 4.95% 5 4-15 101 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 99 rewarding mobs defeated 13 bosses and elite bosses 13 lieutenants 43 minions Mission 2: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: V_Abandoned_Office_30_Layout_05 (8:16) Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1.71% 2 1-9 117 minion equivalents Salvage 10.62% 12 5-16 113 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 117 rewarding mobs defeated 16 bosses and elite bosses 9 lieutenants 51 minions Mission 3: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: V_Caves_30_Layout_02_01 (8:35) Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.74% 2 0-5 73 minion equivalents Salvage 7.14% 5 2-11 70 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 67 rewarding mobs defeated 8 bosses and elite bosses 6 lieutenants 37 minions Mission 4: Server: Freedom Zone/Mission: SmoothCaves_30_Layout_01 (8:50) Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.82% 2 0-5 71 minion equivalents Salvage 6.09% 4 2-11 66 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 59 rewarding mobs defeated 6 bosses and elite bosses 9 lieutenants 35 minions Totals: Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.44% 9 5-17 369 minion equivalents Salvage 7.44% 26 19-39 350 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 342 rewarding mobs defeated 43 bosses and elite bosses 37 lieutenants 166 minions 28 underlings (XP only) 68 rewarding mobs of unknown rank Chief Mentalist (25) failed heuristic rank check Guardian (43) failed heuristic rank check 0 pets and 40 greys
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Quote:That's interesting because I've actually noticed an improvement in performance since the release of I16. I don't know if I'm playing when my roommates aren't also trying to use up some of the bandwidth from our wireless router or if it's the game servers, but I've been chewing through things quite easily and have only had a small differential in my drops as far as what I think should be expected. In other words, I am only slightly off what the drop rate should be on recipes. Salvage drops are right within the targeted range, but the recipe drops still don't seem to be flowing like they should. I could care less about enhancements as they don't make any money on the market.With the other complaints of additional lag I wonder if maybe it isn't communications related.
Where I'm still getting salvage drops as expected, I am utterly befuddled as to why recipes seem to be lacking. I wonder if it has something to do with the weighting formula...but those are only for reward rolls at the merit/ticket vendors........
/head scratch
Another interesting tidbit....salvage drops are as they should be, but it's the recipes themselves that seem to be lacking as has been the case in all of my test runs. I'm running some more Rikti missions right now to varify this a little further.