AddamsFamily

Okay, here's another arc for the sacrificial altar:


Name: A Midsummer Night's Scheme
Arc #: 2378
Author: Devil Childe

Very Long (5 Missions)
Time: 45 Minutes to 1 1/2 Hours
Opponents: Red Caps, the Cabal, a Custom Group
Description: Shakespeare in the Park Paragon City Style. Can you keep it from looking like one of his tragedies? (Paraphrased somewhat).

Story about the Cabal's new tactic in the war with the Red Caps.

There is one Defeat All Mission (yes, I know these can be annoying) but it's on a Small Map. And yes, the custom group is a bunch of Faeries. (I need to work a Denzel Crocker joke in somewhere. If you don't understand the relevance, just ask.)

All the threads on farming missions triggered an idea.


The farming is about doing the same mission over and over again, right?


Anybody familiar with the Country Song "Mr. Mom"? (By Lonestar).


Well, in tribute to that song, I suggest farm missions be tagged "BarneyMA".

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And here I am with my little story arc that chances are no one will play because all anyone does is farm. Once upon a time I was so jazzed about I14. Now I have no inspiration to write any more arcs because I don't see the point when like, 10 people total will play them. Maybe.

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Amen, brother. I feel the same way. Why work so hard to develop a classic comic feel and story when all anyone wants to do is make leveling easier on themselves? Isn't leveling easy enough? I'm beginning to think the game is being dumbed down to a level that will erode what makes it great. I mean, am I the only one who actually reads all the mission text?

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So we should all be forced to run your arc instead of doing what we want to???

Have you tried promoting your arc? Turning it over to the critics? Lead groups through it? Or are we just supposed to rub a magic lamp and magically pull your arc out of the thousands that are published atm? Not to mention it is only the group leader that sees any of your contact dialog you are so proud of anyway....

Heck you dont' even advertise your arc in your signature...How in the world would anyone find it even if they wanted to?

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He asks if anybody actually read the text and you lecture on advertising his story arc (if he actually has one himself).

I think this calls under the heading: disconnect.


Editted heavily, way too late right now.

Mod Smack this Quick!

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[I prefer Robert Louis Stevenson and Arthur Conan Doyle myself.]

[Edit: Forgot Jules Verne.]

Excellent examples. All authors that are admired and left unread by the general public. It's great to name names. But they are not books that the modern public reads and enjoys. There are certainly a minority that do enjoy them.

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You do realize that books aren't the only story-telling method now days? Ever heard of movies? Including those made for T.V.?


Sci-Fi channel did a version of 20,000 Leagues under the Sea. A Christam Carol is played every Holiday Season. PBS has a Mystery Series that includes Sherlock Holmes. They run these things because people are still interested in the stories.


The term "Classic" refers to stories that somehow transcend the time and place they were written. They touch on some fundamental aspect of human nature that doesn't change, which makes the main theme of the story pertinent even in modern times.

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Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does

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Umm, reading comprehension class?


There are farmers that have admitted to this, and I have caught missions with 5-star ratings and 100+ votes suddenly getting a large number of votes that pushed it to 4-star.


BTW, I have one arc. It's currently 4-star and never had anything lower than a 3. (And I use a global handle that is different from my forum handle, so I don't have to worry about being rating griefed by forum trolls.)

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"Because good storytelling is timeless."

that's just not true.

read any 19th century classic - they are terrible to read now.
storytelling is a skill and style which develops over time.

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Aren't we lucky that we've evolved past the amateur story-telling fumblings of Dickens and Twain.

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I prefer Robert Louis Stevenson and Arthur Conan Doyle myself.


Edit: Forgot Jules Verne. (Translated since I don't read French.) Anybody else want to chime in?

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What are farmers doing to you again?

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When's the last time you tried to find a good (non-farm) mission that hadn't been posted by someone in the forums?


There have been farmers that have admitted to one-starring non-farm missions just to ensure they don't have 5-star ratings. That means non-farm missions stop showing up in the 5-star range after they get a certain number of votes. If you then go to the 4-star missions the first 3 pages are full of Rikit Doll Missions.


My use of the MA system doesn't impact the ability of farmers to find a play a farmable missions. The action of the farmers, on the other hand, sure as {$@!} impacts MY ability to find a good, non-farm mission.

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I did think about making it just hitting each other with rocks. It's still abusive behavior, but not necessarily lethal.

But let's try to strip that out. The argument seems to be that because a certain type of play cannot be entirely prevented, no efforts at all should be made to do so? Farming is being presented as a fait accompli, and that everyone should just give up and accept it. Laws cannot be 100% enforced; therefore, there should be no laws. Anything goes. Anarchy.

I suggest you look up the fallacy of the excluded middle. The devs' inability to do away with all exploits and forms of farming as soon as they arise does not consititute official endorsement or tolerance of same. And if one entirely rejects their authority to say whether it's right or not, because the cold practical fact is they can't stop it entirely, that doesn't mean we should just accept its presence either.

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Once more, you seem to be confused between exploit and farm. Exploits are bad. They are to be found, reported, and removed. Farms are nothing more than finding the most effective path to your goal and repeating it over and over until your goal is reached.

You seem to be laboring under the impression that there is a rule against farming. There isn't. Farming is not encouraged or intended, but it is by no means outlawed. If you can prove me wrong, I will retract my statements and champion your cause. However, the fact remains that while some of the administrative staff is antifarm, including Posi...the official position of the game leaves the method viable as long as exploits are not being used.

If you don't think farming is accepted, look at merits. Without doing TF every day, especially redside, It would take you forever and a day to get the merits needed for one set of rare recipies, much less a build worth.

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This has been said before; there is a difference between farming dev. created missions and the farm missions being created using the MA.

The farm missions in the MA are set up in such a way as to give rewards far above what you can get playing regular content, and far above any MA mission set up in the way the dev's expected missions to be made using the MA system.


The MA System was not set up with the expectation that players would create farm missions (look up the definition of bug the dev's use). And setting up a farm mission provides a statistical advantage for the player doing so (look up their definition of exploit).


The one thing you farmers seem to forget is that farming normal content is something that is basically private in nature. (This is true to a certain extent when playing a MA farm mission, as long as you aren't spamming messages for farm teams)

Putting a farm mission on the MA system puts your behavior on public display. Sort of like running on field during a Yankees/Red Sox game wearing nothing but your Nikes.

What may be acceptable behavior in the privacy of your home is not acceptable in other settings.

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Aside from being terrible ideas, this would pretty much just impose limits on the flexibility of MA content, which would come back to affect everyone.

How is farming MA different from farming official content? Nothing has changed. And I don't mean since I14 was released, I mean nothing has changed since the dawn of MOOs and MUDs and grinding some 20 odd years ago.

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The difference is that there are a few bugs that the farmers are exploiting when making their MA Farm Missions. Most have been fixed, but there are still one or two left.

These bugs allow the MA Farmers to get rewards that FAR exceed what they can get by farming regular missions. Or to create a mission where the custom group can't even fight back.

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So what is the difference between me soloing through a set of rikti com officers collecting prestige/inf/tickets and mowing through a spawn on the wall for prestige/inf/drops? Niether of these provide any challenge to my brute, neither have me in any danger of death, both can be done at a high rate of speed, both can be fought at will since the wall spawns fast enough to do so and the AE can be reset at will. If anything the comms are harder for the reward as they all shoot me instead of rushing into the range of my footstomps.

The ae is fine, the exp is fine. If they would just give all custom mobs a generic pistol/pistolwhip ranged/melee attack so they would be able to hit anyone from any position, I would be perfectly happy and I am a farmer

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The problem with the Comm Officers is the amount of the reward given.

If you hit them before they have a chance to open their portal, they never summon help. At that point they're no more dangerous than a Minion (and if you check, that's what they're listed as) but they give rewards as if they're Lieutenants.


It would be comparable to going through the creatures on the wall, and having them give rewards 5 times greater than if you had defeated an equal number of opponents, of equal difficulty, somewhere else. That's how screwed up a mission full of Rikti Communications Officers is.

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Ah, you both are making the common fallacy of "I know it when I see it."

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Can't I just report it and let a GM decide?

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Can't I just report lame stories and let the GM decide about that?

Can't I just report mission with baddies that I feel are overkill and abusive?

Why don't we ALL just report EVERY SINGLE mission that we don't like, just to see if the devs will be OK with taking it out?

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What a false analogy. We're talking about reporting possible violations of the EULA, not personal taste. I wouldn't call security just because I don't like the color of one's car. I mean, I could, but that would get me in trouble for abusing the system.

Speaking of which, one can get in trouble for abusing the report system, so I suppose one could report as much as one wanted, if one wants to get in trouble oneself.

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Which I hope these anti-farming nazis run into - but back to your unproven assertion:

Please specifically quote the part of the EULA that you are using as the basis for the reports YOU are making.

Reporting a mission for having a reward rate you do not like, or being "too" monotonous, is exactly thr same as reporting a mission for having the wrong colored car - a matter of taste.

Reporting a mechanic that is too easily abused, like possibly comm officers, is much more defendable.

So again, exactly what part of the EULA do you think being violated? Please quote FROM the EULA.

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Try Rule 18 of the Rules of Conduct:

You will not exploit any bug in City of Heroes and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of City of Heroes . Bugs should be promptly reported via 'Ask A Question' at http://support.cityofheroes.com.

Farm Missions are almost by definition an exploit of some bug, whether it's making a Custom Group of creatures that give rewards that excede the reward normally given for that type of creature (Rikti Dolls) or custom creatures that have no chance to damage you (melee attacks only and you have hover). And by making a mission using this exploit, you are communicating it to other players.

It's listed under "recovery", and yes they used lower case on it.

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Ah, you both are making the common fallacy of "I know it when I see it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

The phrase "I know it when I see it" is a colloquial expression by which the user attempts to categorize an observable fact or event, although the category is subjective or lacks clearly-defined parameters. This phrase is best known as a description of a threshold of obscenity, no longer used, which is not protected speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. Exhibition of obscene material may be a criminal offense. The phrase notably appeared in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964), decided by the United States Supreme Court.

But this isn't really about that. Its about expecting people to follow rules, but since you never tell them exactly what the rules are, they have no way to ensure they are doing so.

This is no different than when some ISP (was it Comcast?) declared they would terminate your internet service for exceeding their bandwidth cap - BUT they refused to tell us what that cap was.

You can understand WHY they wanted to keep it secret, but it's still wrongity wrong to do that.

Having secret rules people are punished for breaking is WRONG.

I can't be more clear than that.

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Well, gee. The thing is I do "know it when I see it." Why"?


Becasue the exploitive farm missions (the ones that need to be reported and pulled) use pretty much the same tactic. They use one of two methods when making a custom group and then use one of two maps. Whenever I see that one of those maps is loading, the mission turns out to be an attempt to create an axploitive farm mission.

I say attempt becasue some of them have been so badly designed that they could actually slow the player down when compared to a non-farm mission. Nobody said that farmers were brilliant, and given some of the farm missions I've seen and the blatant advertising of exploitive behaviour I'd have to say the majority of people making these farm missions fall on the other end of the spectrum.

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We need to be explicitly told. The only ones who would disagree are just the people who are RP snobs and don't like people playing this as a game in the first place.


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In other words, "If you don't agree with my position, you're just a {fill-in-the-blank} and people should pay no attention to what you say." Typical debate tactic of someone who knows they are on the losing side of an argument.

1) Mission difficulty slider

2) You can have various mission objectives, and select them to be necessary to complete or optional. If you have a mission objective (collect object) set to mandatory for completion you can avoid having to make the mission a complete all.

3) Mission bonuses are based on the number of tickets awarded durin the mission. You do get more tickets for Bosses, but the reward is somewhat random and it can take longer to defeat Bosses/EB/AV.

4) Ticket bonuses for mission completion is greater for the last mission in a 5 mission arc than for the first mission (or one mission story.) The ticket reward for first mission is equal to the number rewarded during the mission. The reward for the fifth mission in 1.2*Tickets Rewarded.

5) Probably just the server.


Edit: First Post after Arcanaville! Almost as good as posting after a Red Name.

No, there is definately a "per mission" ticket cap. I hit it on the test server when seeing just how bad the Council Transformation Chamber problem was. I hit the cap quick on that mission.

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Wrong target.
Blame the people actually responsible, please.

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You mean the devs?

I don't personally think it's a blameworthy situation, but if blame you must the group that created the exploitable system is the obvious target.

A group of players will push any content you hand them to the breaking point, guaranteed. Blaming them when the content can't handle the stress makes as much sense as blaming a shark for eating a seal.

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If the Devs had to wait until they eliminated every possible explot before publishing, we would still be waiting for the initial release of the game.


There were literally thousand of players in Open Beta, many of them were looking for potential exploits. How can you blame the dev's for not finding exploits when the thousands of beta testers couldn't? The only way the dev's could possible avoid creating something that can be exploited is to stop creating new content. Do you honestly think that would be good for the game?

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Long before I started complaining about farm missions.

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Yet you proudly mention in another topic you reported a farm exploit in a previous closed beta.

I'd say more, but most likely it'd get everyone to shout "Oooh ! G's Law !", because God (oops, religion) forbid we talk about serious things. Let's just say, much like some people not so long ago, you seem to be much too eager to report other people to the authorities simply because they break the rules.

Despite living in a country where we have cultural bias on this kind of thing (as kids, we're taught that reporting is bad), I can understand the good may outweight the bad in some situations ; but again, your tone on these posts makes it seem like you're enjoying reporting people. Forgive me if I have a little contempt at your behavior.

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Excuse me, I reported something that amounted to an exploit. The Dev's agreed it was an exploit. They took action becasue it was an exploit.

And please, check out the Rules of Conduct, particularly #18:

You will not exploit any bug in City of Heroes and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of City of Heroes . Bugs should be promptly reported via 'Ask A Question' at http://support.cityofheroes.com.


Not reporting a bug, especially one that constitutes an exploit, violates CoH's Rules of Conduct.


BTW, I reported the exploit in OPEN Beta, not closed. And you report these types of exploits so that the poeple who are willing to blatantly violate the TOS don't get a chance to do so. Some of the exploits slipped through. The farmers have been using them. (It's why certain Rikti creatures got pulled.)


The farmers have been using exploits, and I have been reporting them when I find them doing so.

You are apparently defending the actions of people caught violating the Rules. In other words, you are defending people who have been caught cheating.

Oh, and another thing you should know, my mission that got banned was Arc #2000 something. Published the first day MA went live.

It got smacked the next day.


Long before I started complaining about farm missions.

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And the farmers say their behavior doesn't impact other players.

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In other topics, you complain about the farmers ruining your game and you yell GMs should stop them... and when GMs listen to you by stopping them and yanking your arc at the same time, you blame the farmers again using this as your example of them ruining your game.

Self-fulfilling prophecy... I'm on to you, sir.

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Let's see, a bunch of people engage in exploitive behavior, i.e "Farm Missions". I then make a mission making fun of these people. It gets pulled despite the fact that it violates no rules. Primarily becasue the people engaging in behavior that violates the rules have done so in such volume that the GMs can't make decisions on a case-by-case basis.

And this is all MY fault.


I can't use Snake Eggs in a Mission because farmers would use them in an exploitive fashion. Same thing for certian Rikti, Cimorian Medics, Council Transformation Chambers, etc.


And it's all MY fault.


They yanked end of mission XP/Inf bonuses.


And it's all MY fault.



Wrong target.
Blame the people actually responsible, please.

I ran into an interesting trick today. I had to rescue hostages on a rather big map. The problem was the hostages were dressed exactly like their guards. So much for zooming over with flight and searching for the hostages (and, yes the hostages were standing up and doing nothing like the guards).

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Well, there was a complaint on my arc that it said it was banned because Farming Missions give an artificial advantage.

Except "A Farming Tale" doesn't give any artificial advantage. The name was chosen to make fun of the panic about "I14 will be used for farming" during test, but it's just a silly arc that takes place on a farm. It even got hit with Dev Choice.

Well, it got blocked on Friday, I sent a petition asking for it to be looked at again and editing the description to make it clear it wasn't a farm mission. After maintenance I logged in, and it was gone.

Very annoying. Apparently the word "farm" was enough to get it killed.

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Yep, heard this one before. Had it happen to me. "Old McDonald's Farm" definately did not give any sort of advantage for playing it (come on, who farms Croatoa maps?) but still got smacked.


Non-farm missions that jokingly refer to farms (because that's where they're set) are getting yanked because of the real farm missions.


And the farmers say their behavior doesn't impact other players.

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Apparently there is a way to keep a 5 star rating. Just add the string "JSNTS" into your arc description. Go ahead and search on that.

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Saw that yesterday. The ones with more votes don't have 5 star ratings. There's just so much your SG can do to keep your rating up.

(I assume this is what is happening with those missions.)

If I have to make a guess, I'll say the prisoners were removed due to a bug. Probably the same bug that's been seen with other groups.

The problem with prisoners is that the mission will make them lvl 1 if the player is a villian, but make them lvl 20+ if the player is a hero. This is due to the fact that prisoners are only seen on the villian side in the Break-out (tutorial for the villians), while on the hero side, the prisoners are running amuck in Bricktown.

If there was an exploit from farming prisoners, I have no idea what it would be.