Aett_Thorn

Mostly right, I just wanted to point out two things that aren't entirely accurate:

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The more enemies around you, the less damage they deal and the more you deal.

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The +DMG per enemy does grow, since there are more enemies around you, but the enemy doesn't do less damage the more that are around you. A single Mob will be debuffed just as much as if there was 10 Mobs around you.

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Enemies will have -recharge, -speed due to your taunt aura.

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Chilling Embrace also has a -DMG effect, that is actually greater than Shield's.

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Taunt for tankers has a -range on it, usually causing everyone effected by it to close to near melee if not true melee range. I don't recall if gauntlet, the tanker inherant, also has that built in but I suspect it does.

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It does not. Taunt was given -range after the players suggested it get something else to help Tankers out. It was a player-driven addition to the power, that was not given to Gauntlet. It is specific to Taunt.


And yes, it does not force the enemy to melee range. It just makes their ranged attacks harder to pull off since the range is shortened. If the -range makes their range shorter than the range that you can have on your attacks, you can basically force the enemy to stand there with no way to fight back. It's within your range, but you're not within his.

Ultimo, what you're ultimately asking for is a new AT, not an expansion of the current AT.

Your idea, to basically give Tankers Assault sets in addition to the current Melee sets, would be the same as asking for Controllers to have both Buff/Debuff and Mastermind secondaries. In is greatly increasing their roles, and changing them in a direction that they weren't meant to take until the end of the game.

While it might stink that you can't make your concept character based on the ATs that we have in-game, the ATs were made because free-form powerset selection had huge problems. While your suggestion doesn't end up with complete free-form choice, it makes it so that Tankers could potentially take one of two roles in a team, while the other ATs can only take one.

If a Tanker could essentially have a full ranged attack chain, they could end up being much more survivable in the low levels than they currently are, mainly because ranged damage is generally less on Mobs than melee damage. You'd essentially be giving Tanker more survivability by allowing them to stay at range and still dispatch enemies quickly.

Add to that the fact that, as a Tanker secondary, these sets would most likely have Taunt, which reduces enemy range. Thus, a Tanker could Taunt a small group, and take them apart one by one with a full ranged attack chain, and the enemies would have no chance to retaliate.

Well, your friend's Sonic/Rad Corruptor should definitely help in the late game against AVs, I'll tell you that much.

Since your friend will be able to give you AM, a heavy-hitting, but endurance-heavy set might be a good mix. I'd suggest either Stone or Super Strength for primary. Fire could work, but you'd lack mitigation, so depending on your secondary, it might not be that great.

As for a secondary, if it's just you and a friend, you probably don't need the stability of a Stone Tanker (well, at least not Granite, except against AVs). I would say that Invuln, Willpower, or Fire Armor (especially if you can work in Tough for the AVs later) might work well.



However, you might be fine setting it to the highest difficulty for most of the game, then putting it down one level when you come across AVs. Remember that fighting AVs as a duo is probably much harder than fighting the same creature as an EB.

I believe so, yes. You'll get the starting contact, and the scripted ones, but other than that, you should be fine.

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As I recall. Yeah. Pretty much.

I think ED got some carryover from the Global Defense Nerf (GDN) too. Basically, Def and Resistance were reduced in Issue 5 to a LOT less than they were before. AoE holds could no longer be made perma for Controllers and so on, but we were told there would be no more powerset changes, then Boom! ED hit in I6. A lot of the hate never had a chance to die out from the GDN so I think it carried over to the ED issue a lot.

Something similar is happening now. I-13 made a lot of unpopular changes to PvP, that hate carries over to the stuff in Mission Architect that was reported in Closed Beta, never changed, then was "found" to be exploitative after launch. Then, hot on the heels of the Farm nerf, comes the Badge Recall.

Maybe it's just my own mindset about it all, but I'm pretty much "Meh" about it. Everything changes. If the change isn't good, players adapt or move on. If the change is good, more come in. This game won't last forever. Nothing does. I don't see this being the death blow by any means though. I think "Going Rogue" will hit and people will let all this stuff fall away until the next time the Devs do something the players feel was wrong. Then it will all come back up again.

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I have to agree with this, and add one thing: The complaints about ED were increased again thanks to the way in which the news came out.

CoV was planned using ED in advance. ED was part of CoV and I6, but people in the closed beta for it, who knew this, couldn't tell the players of CoH. It was only because somebody broke the NDA (and promptly got smacked by the Mods for it) that the CoH community found out before it went into open beta. It didn't really help the cause that it seemed like the Devs wanted to keep it a secret.


I think that the Devs learned a decent amount from that, and seem to try to let us know of upcoming changes to powersets, or at least that those powersets are being looked at, before the changes are actually put into beta.

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Obviously this would be an option for any lvl 50....if you wanted to keep your 50s and have them gather dust and/or just play with them then fine but if you wanted to do the "end game content" or whatever you want to call it then you could do the mission/arc.

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The reason that we don't like the idea is twofold:

1) Unlike you, the OP wanted to FORCE people to retire their level 50s. There was no choice to. I think a choice would be a welcome idea. But a forceful retirement is NOT a good idea.

2) The reasoning behind the OP was faulty. The reason the OP gave was to prevent farming and so that more people would play the lower-level characters. We correctly pointed out that it would do neither of those two things.

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Haha...thanks for pointing out my error there.

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Heh, hope you didn't think I was nitpicking or anything. Didn't really mean anything by it, just thought it was worth clarifying.

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You got nothing to worry about from me. It was an error that could have confused the OP. You were right to point it out.

Haha...thanks for pointing out my error there.

Just look at the Ancillary Pools for Tankers, which tend to have ranged attacks in them.

Well, Brutes are much more like Scrappers than Stalkers are, but I'd still recommend a Brute if you're not a big fan of MMs. Brutes and MMs are usually considered the solo-friendly villain ATs (even though they're all pretty solo friendly).

If you're going to be solo for most of the time, a /Fire, /Willpower, or /SR Brute might be pretty good. As for Primary, they're all decently good, but the animations on Energy Melee are pretty long, if you don't like those.


Difficulty in missions: the highest you can go while being able to go through missions at a decent rate without dying too much. Basically, if you can survive the missions easily and are cruising through them, keep cranking it up by one difficulty level until this is no longer the case.


Better to kill enemies outside: No. End of mission XP can be a big help, and you don't have to spend time searching for enemies in the level range that you want. Missions are generally better for advancing your character.


Good Power Pools: Fitness will probably help you a lot (you'll be going for the tier 4 power: edit -> meant the power Stamina, of course). Other than that, it's up to you. A travel power is usually a good idea. Other than that, it depends on your build to see what you might need.


Are AE missions any good: It REALLY depends on the arc. I've played some really good ones, and some REALLY bad ones. They vary depending on how much effort went into making them.


Hope these help!

Heck, even just adding the effects that can already be in missions would be great.

The Ghost missions in Croatoa (I think it's these missions) have some clouds as you go through them that lower your accuracy and speed.

Are you in AE missions? Patrol XP does not get applied in AE missions.

Vanguard Pieces are available through Vanguard Merit purchases in the RWZ.

You can get an outfit pretty close, but they have some unique costume parts that you won't have access to, such as the leg holsters and such.

No worries. Like I said in the OP, it was just a test balloon on the idea. People made convincing arguments against, and not many people were for it. That's fine with me.

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Once again, your suggestion would do absolutely NOTHING to stop PLing and Farming. It would AT MOST slow it down temporarily until people with level 50s got a new level 49 up to level, and then would turn off the XP and continue doing what they are doing.

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I'm not familiar with the possibility of turning off XP. How's this achieved, and for what reason?

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You can turn off XP gain by clicking, hard enough as it seems, the Disable XP button in your options menu in-game. It was put in so that people could stop gaining XP to prevent outleveling a contact, or other level-locked aspect of the game.

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Players who join a power leveling farm can often level up without landing a single blow, or offering a single buff or debuff. They can repeat the same mission over and over, ad nauseum, without having to negotiate the non-mission game world (an often dangerous place). The advent of AE farming means that players can get everything they need in one place, and even get mission-end bonuses to boot.
All the leveling and stuff of the actual game, but with none of the dangers.


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Once again, your suggestion would do absolutely NOTHING to stop PLing and Farming. It would AT MOST slow it down temporarily until people with level 50s got a new level 49 up to level, and then would turn off the XP and continue doing what they are doing.

So you'd harm to normal players, and do nothing to the farmers and PLers. Well done!

Please, for the love of god, stop confusing PLing and Farming.

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Look, I realize that the nature of the forums is that someone suggests something, and then all the old guard show up to shoot down the idea.

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That is not the nature of this forum. The nature of this forum is to agree with suggestions we agree with, and argue against suggestions that we don't agree with. The 'old guard' is nothing. I have disagreed with every 'old guard' member there is on this forum at some point or another.

That does nothing to prove that your idea is anything but bad. We've listed several reasons why it's bad, and you have yet to refute them or even argue against them. If your idea cannot hold water, then it's a bad idea.

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What if level 50 characters were moved to a separate serve, filled with exclusive level 50 content. What if they were given a place where they could really explore their potential? Would that be enough of a carrot to lure you away from the mundane, repetitive nature of farming?

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Once again, there is no reason to do this. After that is acknowledged, then we can deal with the fact that we'd have two different code bases to deal with, twice the testing time on new content, and twice the bug finding and dealing with times just because you think that this will stop farming, and not just pissing of the playerbase.

From Hyperstrike:

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All this will do is lead people to turning off XP at 49 and never taking such a stupid death sentence for their toon.

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I had forgotten about this. This idea would do NOTHING to Farmers, who could just stop at level 49 and continue doing whatever they were doing before. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that a fair share of normal players (including me) would do that too.

From Amish:

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Farming has a negative effect on the game for one very simple reason. It encourages players to do the same thing over and over.

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Okay, now explain why THAT is a bad thing in and of itself. This game, whether you like it or not, is mainly doing the same thing over and over again, with little actual variation, except visually. Most enemy groups don't require a huge change in tactics. So this whole game is literally one big farm. The problem is, it's an ENJOYABLE farm. And to some, farming the same mission over and over again is little different than farming different missions over and over again.

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The rewards for repeating the same mission are greater, and the risks less, than for exploring the game as a whole.

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No, it's really not. It depends on the particular mission, but the rewards and risks are EXACTLY the same if you're doing that mission once or if you're doing it 100 times.

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That's negative because it's unsustainable. If you're not actually experiencing the game itself, you're just playing that one mission over and over, what's the point in having the rest of the game at all?

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Some people farm for different reasons. Ignoring those differences, and lumping them all into one category, is hugely negative to your point. Some people farm to get cash for new alts, which is fine in terms of stability. Some people PL to get into PvP levels, which is fine in terms of stability. There are forms of PLing and Farming which have no impact on stability.

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As far as I'm concerned, all the proof you need is a level 31 Warshade asking other players where Striga Island is. But, if you want additional "proof"? Just read some of the stories in this thread.

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PLing newbies is indeed bad. It has a bad impact on the game. But that is not all PLing, let alone even a fraction of farming.

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All your precious level 50's cease to have meaning when players who've been in the game for less than a month, and who've only explored 1% of the game content, have multiple characters of that level.

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Them having multiple level 50s does nothing to minimize the fun I can still have with mine.

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I'm presupposing that it IS bad, and based on that assumption, I'm suggesting a possible resolution.

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Here is your problem. You're basing your assumption on a presupposition. If your presupposition is incorrect, then your suggestion is unnecessary. THAT is why people are attacking your presupposition. If they can prove that your suggestion is unnecessary, then the discussion of the specifics of the suggestion can be ignored, because they're based on a faulty presupposition.

Also, Amish, there is nothing realistic that the Devs could give me that would make me accept this idea. The Devs aren't going to give me $5,000 for shelving a level 50.

My point for shelving my level 50 is well beyond what the Devs would ever be willing to give me, and every other person who has a level 50. So let's just get that out of the way.


Now, if you could address the many shortfalls this idea has, you might actually gain some traction on this (likely very little, but you'd have a better chance than you have now).

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I'm not giving forcing anyone to do this, but I am attempting to figure out what sort of compensation would be enough to encourage you to do this.

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If your idea necessitates that mitigation be made to the players for something the Devs didn't need to do, then perhaps it is just a bad idea?

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Um...swapping carrots, and offering an alternate carrot are the same thing.

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No. No they are not. Not even close.

If I was to tell you that I was swaping your current car with a beat up old jalopy, is that the same as giving you the jalopy, in addition to your current car? No, it's not. In one, I'm taking your current car, and in the other, I'm not.

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Is there really no reward which would be enough for you to part with your level 50 toon? Free months of membership? Access to additional content? Access to Beta-testing for new releases?

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No, because I see absolutely no reason to do it at all.

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The point of the game is to advance through the content. However, if you remove the end goal, then to a lot of people, you remove the incentive to advance through the content, since at the end is nothing.

The content is good, put if there's no carrot, or even perceived carrot, at the end of the stick, then you do remove a lot of motivation for trying to get the character there.

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I'm proposing an alternate carrot, because I feel that having a level 50 is a pretty lousy carrot to begin with.

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No, you are not. You are swapping carrots. And in my opinion, replacing the current one with a really, really bad carrot.