Adeon Hawkwood

That makes sense to me, my problem with the slow sets is more a lack of useful IOs in the slow sets for powers where damage slotting is not important (well Tempered Readiness could really use slightly stronger set bonuses).

In particular a few Slow/Recharge IOs would help out when Frankenslotting a number of longish recharge slow debuffs (caltrops, frozen rain etc.) although the Slow/Endurance/Recharge ones are almost as useful.

Actually now that I look at it, most of the Mez/Debuff sets got Main Aspect/Range IOs but no Main Aspect/Recharge IOs. That seems an odd choice to me, Range is only really useful in cones and cone debuffs/mezzes are not that common (I can only recall the one in Dark PBlast and the one in Poison of the top of my head).

Well this, at least, is WAI. Pets are not supposed benefit from recharge (IIRC it was screwing up the AI for some pets).

Actually I pretty much agree with that classification (although I word it differently). It's just that for the SoAs I consider level 24 to be level 1. Level 24 is when they actually become "supers", the bits before that are their origin story . This also explains why the respec at level 24 allows them to change powers. They were a wolf spider relying on natural training and basic gear but now they hit "level 1" and get promoted to Crab Spider at which point they are officially super.

While this would be cool it would make hunt missions even more frustrating. The Numina TF is the stereotypical example, it's really frustrating if you're doing it and an invasion event shows up in one of the zones leaving you unable to progress.

How am I contradicting myself?

Ok, lets take the simplified hybrid-car metaphor. My take on it is that, to use my terminology from above, the car has two "power sources", gas and electric but it's gas origin. The combustion engine is used to recharge the batteries and not the other way around. To stretch the analogy to the breaking point the hybrid car started off as a gas car but then at level 41 took Conserve Power from it's APP. Taking Conserve Power (i.e. adding an electric engine to improve gas efficiency) didn't change its fundamental nature as a car that needs gas to run. Conversely a fully electric car that either doesn't have a combustion engine at all or just has a small one for emergencies would be considered electric origin since that is it's more important power source.

The same thing applies to the magical cyborg. Unless magic is his primary power source (like the Tin Mage) his primary power source is technology.

Here's the way I look at it for a character with multiple power sources. When you take one away what happens to the powers granted by the others? If you take the combustion engine out of a hybrid car it won't run since it needs that to charge the electric motor. If you take the electric motor out you've converted it back to a regular car (yes, this isn't a perfect analogy but you get the point).

If you take the Magic out of the Cyborg he's still a Cyborg if you take the Cyborg out of the Cyborg he promptly vanishes in a flash of logic. The Magic needs the Cyborg to work but the Cyborg doesn't need the Magic. As such the Cyborg is the more fundamental power source and to me THAT is what defines origin.

Yep, if you send an email to a global name (as opposed to a specific character name) you can attach inf and/or an item to it. Since global names are cross server it can be retrieved by any character regardless of server or faction. Makes outfitting new alts soooo much easier.

Yeah, to be honest I don't think making all of them affect the caster is the best way to balance the sets, I think it would bring the sets into closer balance but it's not a great solution. In the particular case of FF it would make the FF tougher allowing them to solo larger groups if they wanted but wouldn't really increase their speed. The GR Tanker Bruising buff is a good example of the inverse, my understanding is that part of the reason for it was to speed up Tanker soloing.

In the case of the 100% uptime full-team non-caster buffs I mostly advocate for them to be made PBAoEs that don't affect the caster or given longer active times as a method for making the set more interesting to play.

That's more an issue with the limitations of the system than anything else. My personal feeling on the matter is that Wolf Spiders are Natural, Crab Spiders are Technology and Bane Spiders are somewhere in between.

The Wolf Spider powers mostly represent basic military skills and training with equipment that, while fancy, is not especially important (the arachnos rifle doesn't seem to be significantly more fancy than a regular gun and the armor is just basic body armor).

The Crab Spider skills are based around the Crab Backpack which due to the tech level and the need to surgically attach it I think counts as Tech origin.

Bane Spiders could go either way depending on what you view as their main skills. The melee attacks could easily be natural attacks but the ranged skills are definitely more tech in nature so I guess what matters is are those the critical powers or the melee attacks?

The robotic spiders I actually consider to be natural powers. The SoA didn't design them and he didn't build them. His ability to control them is caused by his membership in Arachnos so his "power source" for them is natural.

My problem with this argument has always been two things. First off the Scrapper has significantly higher offense than the Defender. Secondly the limitation is notably absent from newer sets. Traps in particular is a notable offender providing noticeably more personal defense than FF and a much better array of secondary effects.

I really don't consider the ability to buff the team to be powerful enough to justify the solo weakness of the set. Other sets (Traps and Cold Domination) can provide sufficient defensive capabilities (both Defense and other mitigation) and add more offensively.

I disagree. I think a tool (whether a magical sword, a gun or whatever) can change a characters origin. The critical question is if you took away their special item and gave them a generic one from a store how much ability would they lose?

If you gave Inigo Montoya a magical sword that was sharper and stronger than his ancestral weapon (ignoring the morale bonus he gets for wielding that) he would still be a Natural character since his "core" ability is his skill with a sword. On the other hand if you gave me (a person notoriously clumsy) a magical sword that granted me Inigo Montoya skill levels while I was wielding it I would become magical origin since my abilities are dependent on magic to work, replace my magic sword with a standard one and I'd be useless with it. If Inigo and I swapped our magical swords this would be even more apparent, his skill level would be basically unchanged while a magically sharp sword doesn't do me any good.

If the tool enhances existing abilities then or grants abilities that are minor compared to existing ones (like the example I used a while back of a master swordsman who gets a sword that shoots fireballs) then I agree that it doesn't change their origin but when the tool is fundamental to their abilities I think it does.

This is an extremely narrow view of it. I view it the same as a tool, the magic is enhancing existing abilities but it isn't overwriting them. The laser eye beams are still laser eye beams they just function better (for whatever reason).

It's also completely ignoring the possibility of character who, storywise, are not getting any direct power from the Well but instead are gaining knowledge that they can use to enhance existing powers. The Natural character who, in his dreams, is trained in swordplay by the heroes of Greek mythology. The Technology character who gains the ability to telepathically communicate with his alternates in other dimensions to collaborate on research projects. In both cases the new ability granted to the character is magical but it doesn't directly impact their abilities as a super hero, instead ti grants them the knowledge they need to improve their own abilities.

You're completely ignoring the fact that a character could perfectly easily have multiple "power sources". For me a character's origin should be the power source that sets him (or her) apart from regular baseline humans. It does not have to be the power source for all his powers but should (in my opinion) be the source of his most fundamental powers. In many ways I consider "beginning" to be a better way of choosing an origin than "power source" simply because a character's beginning describes his most basic power source although obviously this doesn't work for all characters.

Your assumption seems to be that the magic from the Well is changing all of your abilities to work due to magic but I see nothing in the Incarnate content that suggests that. The magic is, at most, providing a boost up to your existing abilities. Suppose you have a cyborg who has the ability to shoot laser beams from his eyes. Even after becoming an incarnate he still needs the laser eye beam projectors to do this which is why his origin remains technology. He uses magic to boost up his powers but without the technology the magic is useless.


A few examples:

My Pistols/Storm Corruptor Jack Steam is Magic Origin. However his pistol skills are entirely natural. His magical skills lie in his ability to manipulate the atmosphere in a localized area, he lacks the fine control to use this to shoot more effectively and he sucks at enchantment so his pistols are perfectly ordinary guns. He has two power sources: magic for his storm abilities and natural for his pistol skills. I selected Magic for his origin since of his power sources I think this is the one that really sets him apart. If you took away his guns he could still toss you around the room, if you took away his magical abilities he's just a punk with a gun.

Taking your example of a Cyborg who gains Incarnate powers. He now has two different power sources: Technology and Magic. Which one is his origin? I would say Technology. That is the fundamental source of his powers, the magic is simply providing a power up. If you took away his rocket launcher or his laser eye beam projectors he can't use magic to replicate the effects, if you take away the magic he can still use his abilities, just at reduced effectiveness.

That is correct, I'll also add in the fact that the maximum recharge (including both the enhancements in the power and global bonuses) is 400%.

Approximately once every 92 seconds, it's a simple equation. Sharker is correct, it is impossible to get DP's recharge any lower than 72 seconds (and that requires outside buffs).

Most of the sets have Toxic resistance as their last bonus which is of very limited utility. On the other hand Apocalypse and Coercive Persuasion both have defense bonuses in their 6th slot which (depending on the rest of your build) could be very useful. Soulbound Allegiance also has a defense bonus but since it lacks the recharge bonus and the rest of the bonuses are weak I can't see much need to 6-slto it.

I prefer "Any Sufficiently Analyzed Magic is Indistinguishable from SCIENCE!"

Several of my characters take the view that Magic is just a simple way of saying "we don't understand the Physics".

Personally I'm going to take this interpretation and cheerfully run with it as far as incarnates go. The Well of Furies has granted them new abilities, it's magic because they don't really understand how they got the abilities but the abilities themselves might be magic, or they might not.

I also have a fondness for having situations where the character's explanation for a power is not necessarily true. As an example my Tech origin Inv/Axe Tanker uses a suit of power armor. If I ever get her to 50 and incarnate her (she's hovering between 4th and 5th on my list) the in-character explanation for her increased power is that she has been meditating and communing with the spirits of her ancestors and by doing so has established a bond which allows them to lend her some of their power when she needs help (this is also her explanation for certain other non-incarnate abilities). Is this actually what's happening? Maybe, it's certainly possible within the lore of the CoX universe, but it's equally possible she's a little bit delusional and has instead activated a latent mutation, or is unconsciously using magic.

Given that it is becoming inherent in I19 I think it's safe to say that the devs agree with you (assuming that your point was to make endurance costs balanced around not having it but still being able to keep going).

That's an interesting idea. I can definitely see the idea. You use your T1 and T2 attacks as your main abilities pretty much whenever they are recharged and then higher tier attacks when you need the oomph (blue bar permitting).

They have, it's called Monster Island .

Well that sucks. Guess I be using the recharge one until they fix it (I know the recharge doesn't affect pets, I just want more recharge for my traps)

You are correct, I thought it seemed a bit odd but apparently never read it correctly.

You can slot and use Siphon Life however you want. However that does not change the fact that if your goal is to maximize damage (which was the question you asked) Siphon Life should be slotted and used as an attack.

Even without slotting it for healing using it regularly should provide you with sufficient healing or alternatively several people have commented (in this thread and your other two) on how to slot it for damage and healing. As for the recharge bonus Crushing Impact is a damage set with a recharge bonus.

No, I'm just being misremembering what I did. I was mucking about in Mids a few days ago working this out and forgot what I did. You need a Steadfast IO and slightly overslotted FFG to hit the softcap. Sorry for the confusion.