Antigonus

I really doubt it is just a matter of perception. I took a break from the game a few months back. At the time I left there were regularly ~1000-1200 hero players and ~500-750 villain players at peak times on Freedom. Since I came back there are rarely more than 800 blue and 400 red players during those same peak hours. I mostly play red side and the average lately seems to be ~300 players at any given time. And before people start talking about the server transfers, I was noticing the droppoff long before the holidays. I don't play the other servers anymore, but I would be curious if there has been an increase in any server population since the free transfers became available. Since I have never heard of any such thing happening, I have to believe there is some truth to what people are fearing.

Obviously, this is very un-scientific, but since NCSoft won't publish subscription numbers anymore, we can only guess what is really happening.

Are in the super secret double-closed beta? Because unless you are, you don't know jack ****.

I honestly can't tell if your optimism is real or put on, but either way it's annoying.

Actually I think you have it backwards. He's not quiting because of a lack of info, he's quiting most likely because he's bored with the lack of new anything in general. All he's saying is that more information would have convinced him to stay longer.

Yeah, I think this ultimately is the root of the problem. Most people that play this game really don't want something challenging. They want exactly what you described. A lot of people complain that the bad attitudes and trash talk are to blame, but really it's the fact that they don't want to play against a thinking opponent that can actually beat them in such a convincing fashion. They want to log on and lay waste to hundreds of limited AI minions that realistically pose little to no threat. PvP rarely fits into that mold.

I think it's a question of revenue vs. overall game health. Box sales can generate the largest amount of profit, but subs are a more accurate indicater of game popularity and overall health. In the long run, the number of boxes sold won't matter if nobody is playing past the free month. Look at CO for a good example of that. The game made good numbers in it's initial sales, but it won't be around much longer in it's current incarnation the way they are hemoraging subs.

Conversely, if the game has a stable number of subs that will meet or exceed operating costs, the game can theoretically go forever, even if a single new box is never sold. That appears to be the position that CoX is currently in.

It was stated before the PvP changes went live that it would cost NC a lot of subs if the changes went through. No suprise to anybody there except maybe to NCSoft. The AE losses were no real surprise either. They lost those subs at both points largely because of the horrible manner in which those issues were handled. More specifically, the manner in which they utterly disrespected there target playerbase.

I don't think this is anything new. It's been fairly well known that the game has been bleeding off subs fairly consistantly since launch. The only major exception being the CoV release, but things were back to their normal slow slide shortly after that. The big questions that linger, and the reason people still talk about it, is how much more can the game afford to lose before it is no longer able to support itself, and what can NC do to stop the bleed? GR is the next big step in trying to keep numbers from sliding further. I'm sure Golden Fangurl is absolutely convinced that GR is the greatest thing ever seen since the invention of the internet and will probably herald the second coming of Christ dressed as Statesman, but I'm not convinced it will have any lasting effect. Much like the CoV release it will spike subs for a short time and then it will all go back to our normal dooooooom.

This isn't really true. Yes, a good team will target the support characters first, because in the end it's the support that will make the biggest impact on a close match. It would not be entirely accurate however to say that those squishies are doomed to insto-death. A good taunting Tank/Brute/Scrapper can go a long way toward keeping those support characters alive as long as possible. The main difference between PvE and PvP is that the opponent is (relatively) intelligent and will find ways around the taunter. Unlike PvE, it requires an active effort on the part of the squishy to stay alive while supporting his team. The support roles on a PvP team are the most demanding because they require an ultra high level of situational awareness that most players simply are not capable of. Unlike PvE, you can not just sit in the middle and throw heals and buffs if you expect to stay alive long enough to actually help your team.




Do you realize that "ganking" as you call it occurrs all the time in PvE? Every time a team gets together to take down an AV/EB/GM, it's a gank. And people do it not because they always have to. I have taken down AVs on every one of my characters solo, and even did a GM without a team once. No, they do it because it's fun to work with others to take down a hard target. It happens the opposite way also. How often has somebody gotten caught by an ambush when they were separated from a team? How often do Scrappers and Tanks try to take down huge numbers of opponents by themselves? Do people complain about how outnumbered they were? No, they brag about it.

So why is it so bad in PvP when one has to fight against many? Why does that offend peoples sensibilities in PvP when it is so often desired in PvE? I'm glad that Hamidon doesn't come to the forums to complain about getting ganked every time a raid takes him down. I would hate for players to get nerfed because they didn't fight Hami with honor, 1 vs 1.

Also, for the record, the term ganker is just as offensive to some as the term carebear is to others. Please choose your words carefully.



You are correct about this, and you have the Devs to thank for it. Some people only want the PvP IO drops and will take the easiest method of getting them. GG devs.

I'm not even going to take the time to comment on your individual comments. Your arguments here are so far beyond the reasonable that I have to believe you are just trolling. I mean come on, comparing getting badges in a PvP zone to having your mothers car break down in a bad neighborhood? Really? That is a valid comparison to you? I'm sorry and I really mean no personal offense here, but you clearly do not have the personality type to be anywhere near a PvP zone, and we would thank you to stay away. Sadly, it is people like you that have ruined PvP in this game, not the PvPers.

As has been said before, it's a matter of perception. I've been PvPing since the arenas went live in issue 4. I've seen all manner of PvPers on 3 different servers, 4 if we count the test server. I know the jerks exist and they can be annoying. However, nothing could possibly convince me that they are as prevalent as you would make them out to be. They are not, as you say, the content. You are treating the minority as the whole, and that was my point. After 5 years in this game I have seen far more abusive language and griefing tactics from PvE play than I ever have in PvP. The fact of the matter is that the bad PvPers are just as easily dealt with as the bad PvErs are, just the methods are different. You can just as easily get around a jerk in PvP and continue playing. A jerk on ignore isn't doing anything different in PvP than a non-jerk. The rules of engagement are the same whether or not a person is being ignored. There is no griefing in PvP as far as tactics go outside of TPing a person into the geometry in manner that the game prohibits.

If you are constantly being targeted, it will generally be for one of three reasons:

1) You are the biggest threat on the board and they need to go through you to deal with everybody else (i.e. healers/buffers). If this is the case, take it as a compliment.

2) You are considered inexperienced enough that you are an easy target. Nothing wrong with this. Everybody is new at some point. Take it as a learning experience. There is no better way to learn evasive manuevers than to be everybodys target of choice. I usually take any new characters I make into PvP zones as soon as possible with as few enhancements as possible so that I can first learn how my characters will work at their weakest and what I need to do to survive with that character before I start worrying about getting kills.

3) You're the only one in the zone. It happens more often than it used to with the new rules ( gg devs ). Just zone out and try again later. Or do what I do and sit in the base where they can see you but not attack and just talk. Tell a few jokes and drone somebody just to watch them scream about it

I can't tell you how glad I am that I didn't just throw up my arms and stop playing the first time I encountered a jerk in PvE. I still remember getting booted from a team because my Rad Troller wasn't a good enough "healer". I would hate to think that with your attitude, that would have been the last time I ever played the game.

Bad attitudes are everywhere. Yes they are easier to ignore in PvE, but that's not the point. The point is that maybe, just maybe, you might need to check the person in the mirror when you think there's an attitude problem.

And this right here is the biggest reason for the small PvP population. It has little to do with balance or mechanics or all the various other reasons that people give for not PvPing. The vast majority of players in CoX simply have no interest in PvP. For many, the lack of PvP was the reason for buying the game.

I personally enjoy PvP a great deal in this game, although less so since issue 13 (gg devs). I think it is important to develop PvP to make it a fun part of the game for players to enjoy, but a huge mistake to make changes to PvP to cater to those that will never have an interest in it. That is exactly what happened in issue 13 and the PvP population shrank rather than increased because of that mistake. It was basically the equivalent to changing the rules of the game to get more people to roleplay in the D. I won't be anymore likely to RP than I was before and it just pisses off the RPers.

So if any any devs are taking a stroll through this thread, please don't make any more changes to PvP unless it is to give us back our pre-I13 PvP. I love PvP, but please listen to the haters this time and stop putting development time into destroying what little enjoyment is left for the PvPers for the sake of those who will never play it.

One of the biggest problems that PvP faces in this game is the solo mentality. Balance has always, from day one, come from teaming. In that regard, it is actually very similar to PvE. The devs stated this fact very clearly from the begining. However, many players who were unfamiliar with PvP chose to disregard that and play solo. The reasons for this will range from some kind of warrior code of honor to just being anti-social. Regardless of the reasons, the result is a lack of balance in 1 vs 1 encounters. In the end, those players became frustrated when they were repeatedly beaten by teams and rather then adjust their play style to play the game in the manner the devs intended, they chose to come to the forums and complain about how unbalanced it is.




While PvP is different from PvE, it isn't as radically different as some would believe. Learning how the powers work in PvP is no different than learning how a newly introduced set works in PvE. If people can take the time to learn how the new Dual Pistols set for Blasters in GR will work (and they will), they can take the time to learn how their already existing powers will work in PvP. It's that easy. The hardest part people have is letting go of preconceived ideas of the game that don't apply in a PvP environment. It's kind of like playing (American) Football for years and then switching to indoor Football. The fundamentals are the same but some of the rules are a little different. If you can play one, you can play the other without too much difficulty.

Some people do more damage by sticking around then they do by participating. Best to just get them out as soon as possible.

This is basically what happened to me as well. The Blaster I was fighting went into Hiber and hit full right as the SD timer went. I was just short of full and got the loss.

Avengers Forever is one of the best mini series ever writen. I had to buy a second set so I could re-read the first without destroying any value the second set might have.

I don't think that was really the intention of the writers. It came across that way, but I think they intended for it be more along the lines of him needing to make amends by bringing back the city and everyone in it and anybody that gets in his way is just something to be brushed aside. He didn't set out to destroy the universe so much as the universe being colateral damage.

Served them right for even thinking about resurrecting something the devs clearly wanted dead.

pssht nub.

Fire/Pain is better for somebody just starting. Rad blast requires expensive procs to be good and Sonic roots too much for somebody that doesn't know how to kite with it.

There was no need for the Parallax reveal at all. It was clumsy and unnecessary, and ultimately made no sense in the overall context. The story of Hal Jordans fall and redemption was actually pretty good, even if parts of it were not well written. I for one would have much prefered for the character to have kept that blemish. A character that faulters but manages to redeem himself is far more interesting to read than one that is just perfect. This is particularly true of a character like Hal that is known for his arrogance.