We are Heroes! This is what we do!
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
I'll still think TonyV and his cadre are self-aggrandizing, pompous fools who reinforce stereotypical views of nerdrage. By putting forth this silly slogan, he's implying that it's the game, not the community, that is worth saving. It's not. This game could be blown up and remade from scratch for all I care, so long as the community remained a part of it. We the community are not heroes. We pilot fake heroes in a fake game. That's not heroic. It never has been, is not now, and will never be. Implying otherwise is insulting to the memories of real heroes. Real heroes give their lives for a just and worthy cause, or at least come within mortal peril. That's how I define a hero. A hero is not some dude with an obviously wrong yet catchy slogan. Those are called politicians, and most of them aren't revered as heroes.
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No, many of us don't run into burning buildings and save people. But that doesn't mean we wouldn't. That you view heroes as such implies that you don't pay much attention to what those heroes say in interviews afterward. The typical response is something to the effect of, "I was just in the right place at the right time and I did what I needed to do." That is often the defining factor. Not many of us get to walk down the street, see a crime getting committed, or a building about to collapse, to be given the opportunity to risk life and limb and do something heroic. But who are you to decide who does or doesn't have that in their heart? To say, "If you were like that, you'd be out doing it", is just silly. There are heroes out there who will never get recognized, because random chance will never grant them that critical moment to spring into action. And even then, have you taken a census? Do you know who on these forums is a peacekeeper in a warzone, a firefighter, an EMT, a lawyer trying to help someone keep their home, or a street-tough kid who stood up for the class wimp while he was being threatened by bullies? I didn't think so.
But I know this. I've never seen a more solid gaming community than I do here. A lot of blood families won't even pull for each other the way we do here. Charities have been raised as a result of this game, and even in this dark hour that spirit of giving has lived on, and is still helping people when they need it. And say what you want about whether or not risk of life is required to be a hero. But even generosity, in this morally bedridden society that we're all forced to live in every day, takes an aspect of heroism, and that's courage. It takes real courage to do good in a world where Villainy is commonplace.
If TonyV chooses to connect with the brightest corner of our souls in order to inspire and motivate us, what is wrong with that? Calling ourselves heroes doesn't take anything away from our role models, who we still look up to. Many of us will never get the chance to be a hero. But that doesn't mean we don't have the attitude.
![](http://www.fragglerockforever.com/CoX/toons.jpg)
I could point to groups like Real World Heroes to argue the point but.... **** it, snark's more entertaining.
Shorter AC: "We are citizens, we take it lying down!"
-Female Player-
What about people that mostly or exclusively played villains? Are they left out of this campaign and slogan?
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![](http://imageshack.us/a/img163/8111/savecohredleaderboard.jpg)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297453
Edit: Here's the exact post. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=16
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Also you could be seeing protest signs with those words all over the game if you downloaded a few tiny files:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297453 Edit: Here's the exact post. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=16 |
Where did they come from?
Who made them?
Where is their privacy statement?
Who is in charge if they dont work.
Where is this company located?
How long they been around?
Are they affiliated with Google? Microsoft? Yahoo? Anyone else?
-Female Player-
Leandro, he's with the Titan Network now and a long-time trusted member of this community. Also in that same thread I just started trying to talk him into making it where we can see those slogans an the billboards within the game.
He said it might be possible and he'll look into it after some sleep.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Wow, dude... it was never about the "fake heroes" in a "fake game" that was at the core of the issue here. This game has brought out the best in people like no other MMO. In an IRL world, where profiteering and stabbing people in the back is not only normal, but in many cases, encouraged, CoH has granted us a radiant sun in which the best part of our psyche has a chance to grow and flourish.
No, many of us don't run into burning buildings and save people. But that doesn't mean we wouldn't. That you view heroes as such implies that you don't pay much attention to what those heroes say in interviews afterward. The typical response is something to the effect of, "I was just in the right place at the right time and I did what I needed to do." That is often the defining factor. Not many of us get to walk down the street, see a crime getting committed, or a building about to collapse, to be given the opportunity to risk life and limb and do something heroic. But who are you to decide who does or doesn't have that in their heart? To say, "If you were like that, you'd be out doing it", is just silly. There are heroes out there who will never get recognized, because random chance will never grant them that critical moment to spring into action. And even then, have you taken a census? Do you know who on these forums is a peacekeeper in a warzone, a firefighter, an EMT, a lawyer trying to help someone keep their home, or a street-tough kid who stood up for the class wimp while he was being threatened by bullies? I didn't think so. But I know this. I've never seen a more solid gaming community than I do here. A lot of blood families won't even pull for each other the way we do here. Charities have been raised as a result of this game, and even in this dark hour that spirit of giving has lived on, and is still helping people when they need it. And say what you want about whether or not risk of life is required to be a hero. But even generosity, in this morally bedridden society that we're all forced to live in every day, takes an aspect of heroism, and that's courage. It takes real courage to do good in a world where Villainy is commonplace. If TonyV chooses to connect with the brightest corner of our souls in order to inspire and motivate us, what is wrong with that? Calling ourselves heroes doesn't take anything away from our role models, who we still look up to. Many of us will never get the chance to be a hero. But that doesn't mean we don't have the attitude. |
And I know for sure this game havent brought otu the best in everybody. Plenty of people with internet gorilla balls running around that would not behave, act like or say 1% of the stuff they get away with on here because they are tucked and safe behind the screen. On the other hand, some people who were not socialable in person probably found it easy to be socialble here .Some people that didnt knwo how to make friends in the outside world found it easy to make friends here. Some people who might have even been social rejects, find it easy to finally be te most popular guy around on here. The community thing I think probably helped alot of people and I hope those reasons are the ultimate goal of saving this game. Although people have various reasons for saving this game and none are wrong. Some people want to just continue to be able to play and damn the community. Some people dont care what game is created as long as the community there. Some people want both some wants neither and have different reason. I just hope that some people can see beyond the differences and realize that they might just want the same thing in one fashion or another. Even though some will not accept COH incarnate and nothing less while some people want something COH like. Those are the goals, now how do we get there? That is the ten million dollar question.
-Female Player-
And I know for sure this game havent brought otu the best in everybody. Plenty of people with internet gorilla balls running around that would not behave, act like or say 1% of the stuff they get away with on here because they are tucked and safe behind the screen.
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![](http://www.fragglerockforever.com/CoX/toons.jpg)
Granted. Every game has jerks. But I've been able to tell that the troll ratio is certainly a lot lower here than in any other game I've been to. And whenever someone does start to become a problem, they tend to get "run out of town" pretty fast. I've seen the bullying get routed here just as quickly as would purse-snatching in a superhero universe. And this is also the only game where not once have I seen anyone say "lolrp"
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Ironically I see "lolrp", whatever that means quite often on virtue. Or at least used to, especially in Atlas and Pocket D. A couple of times in Talos a week, and only one time in past four months in PI. Is that an insult to role players?
-Female Player-
I dont know usually here, unless the bully is targeting a popular person, everyone seems to remain quiet. If the popular person is doing the bullying, everyone just laughs it off and call the other person as being too sensative and or try to run them out of town. Only time I've seen a run out of town attempt is when the target is a popular person with a bunch of friends. Now dont egt me wrong, this community is over all friendly relatively but I've seen lot friendlier online community. In game, it's a different story it seems havent seen much friendlier as far games go outside CO. Usually not too many jerks hanging around or doing much stupid stuff. Forum wise, it seems all bets are off and it's WoW all over again.
Ironically I see "lolrp", whatever that means quite often on virtue. Or at least used to, especially in Atlas and Pocket D. A couple of times in Talos a week, and only one time in past four months in PI. Is that an insult to role players? |
It's pretty much the equivalent to highschool jocks suddenly deciding that playing chess is now cool. And the first thing they do is try to scare away the uncool chess club so they can take over.
![](http://www.fragglerockforever.com/CoX/toons.jpg)
It's pretty much trollspeak (or sometimes PvPspeak) for, "You should leave. I don't like you. And I don't like you, because you are stupid for RPing in an mmoRPg."
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learn something new everyday.
I find it a bit ironic that someone would make fun of another for Rping. I mean unless that person is some spandex wearing super power throwing human/mutant/powersuit/beast in RL, then in a way they are role playing too.
-Female Player-
ah. lot of trolls on virtue then or was.
learn something new everyday. I find it a bit ironic that someone would make fun of another for Rping. I mean unless that person is some spandex wearing super power throwing human/mutant/powersuit/beast in RL, then in a way they are role playing too. |
![](http://www.fragglerockforever.com/CoX/toons.jpg)
I'll still think TonyV and his cadre are self-aggrandizing, pompous fools who reinforce stereotypical views of nerdrage.
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By putting forth this silly slogan, he's implying that it's the game, not the community, that is worth saving. It's not.
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If we stopped there, though, then 80+ people would still be out of a job and the labor of their love, their pièce de résistance, their Mona Lisa, would be destroyed for no good reason.
This game could be blown up and remade from scratch for all I care, so long as the community remained a part of it.
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We the community are not heroes. We pilot fake heroes in a fake game. That's not heroic. It never has been, is not now, and will never be. Implying otherwise is insulting to the memories of real heroes. Real heroes give their lives for a just and worthy cause, or at least come within mortal peril. That's how I define a hero. A hero is not some dude with an obviously wrong yet catchy slogan. Those are called politicians, and most of them aren't revered as heroes.
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To me, a hero is someone who fights for a noble goal, who clearly goes above and beyond the call of duty to set right things that are wrong. Are people who put their lives on the line to do so heroes? Oh, hell yes they are. Do you have to put yourself in mortal danger to be a hero? Absolutely not. And in that spirit, I really do think that we are heroes.
What NCsoft is doing is wrong. Destroying years of hard work and creativity when there are viable options in which everyone can benefit is wrong. Laying off 80+ people instead of spinning off Paragon Studios and keeping those people employed is wrong. Needlessly destroying a large chunk of a strong community without warning after helping to build it up is wrong. To me, fighting against this injustice is a noble goal, and the people doing it aren't just piloting fake heroes in a game, they deserve every ounce of support, appreciation, and respect that people have to offer.
Incidentally, if you still insist that lives have to be saved, people have told us that City of Heroes has quite literally saved their lives in some way by helping them through hard times and allowing them to make friends that they wouldn't have otherwise met. Maybe you think they're just being melodramatic, but I think they are serious. Maybe it's not as striking an image as running into a burning building and rescuing a child, but I think that it is worthwhile, and I'm extremely proud of every person here who has helped out in any capacity.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Pretty sure you're just a guy with a mouse and keyboard killing pixels and time. Some perspective, please, so you don't come across as completely off the deep end. We're not heroes. We're a bunch of cool people who grew close to each other while playing a fun game. Heroes are guys who run into burning buildings to save a child. They're not guys who run into burning buildings to save a collection of pixels. Please stop demeaning the word.
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I think we've all made our point now to the Eye of Sauron...
![](http://www.fragglerockforever.com/CoX/toons.jpg)
And this post reflects why I respect you so much and stand behind you.
It's so easy for people to complain, whine, and be overall negative - because truth be told pessimism is easy compared to optimism. It takes real effort to stay optimistic, but it is the defeatist who can say "F*** it!" I choose the hard path...the path of most resistance. I will not give up without a fight. Giving up and accepting defeat is the NON-HEROIC thing to do. Everyone involved in the #SaveCoH campaign are heroes in my eyes. No we are not ending cancer...no we are not saving people from hunger...but we are fighting to save a community of thousands which in my book is pretty damn heroic.
You know, I'm okay with this. If I didn't convey that impression to at least a few people, it would have been a clear sign that I was not emphatic enough and that my post was an utter failure for what it is designed to do: evoke a sense of exigency strong enough to call people to action.
Actually--and hold on to your socks because I'm about to blow your mind--it's both. Saving the community is easy. I can keep the Titan Network forums running indefinitely, post a few "Hey everyone, let's just convene over there!" messages, and mission accomplished. If we stopped there, though, then 80+ people would still be out of a job and the labor of their love, their pièce de résistance, their Mona Lisa, would be destroyed for no good reason. Believing that is your prerogative. Some people think that if the Mona Lisa were thrown into a bonfire and destroyed, hey, no worries. It's just a thing, and it was really kind of ugly anyway. Others fall somewhere in between the two extremes on the spectrum. Different people are coming at this from different angles, and believe me, the community is a major consideration of why I have been fighting so hard. So that's your cutoff? You have to put yourself in mortal peril? So someone who fights a company who is dumping waste and destroying environmental resources, they're not a hero? After all, there's very little risk of mortal peril in a courtroom with metal detectors and all. A football player who is a great sportsman and role model in convincing kids to pursue high standards of academic excellence instead of just worshiping his physical prowess isn't a hero? When John F. Kennedy was piloting his PT boat, I suppose that was pretty heroic since he could have been shot and killed, but when he was navigating the tricky minefield that was the Cuban Missile Crisis, that wasn't particularly heroic since he'd probably be pretty safe and sound in the event of an actual nuclear strike? To me, a hero is someone who fights for a noble goal, who clearly goes above and beyond the call of duty to set right things that are wrong. Are people who put their lives on the line to do so heroes? Oh, hell yes they are. Do you have to put yourself in mortal danger to be a hero? Absolutely not. And in that spirit, I really do think that we are heroes. What NCsoft is doing is wrong. Destroying years of hard work and creativity when there are viable options in which everyone can benefit is wrong. Laying off 80+ people instead of spinning off Paragon Studios and keeping those people employed is wrong. Needlessly destroying a large chunk of a strong community without warning after helping to build it up is wrong. To me, fighting against this injustice is a noble goal, and the people doing it aren't just piloting fake heroes in a game, they deserve every ounce of support, appreciation, and respect that people have to offer. Incidentally, if you still insist that lives have to be saved, people have told us that City of Heroes has quite literally saved their lives in some way by helping them through hard times and allowing them to make friends that they wouldn't have otherwise met. Maybe you think they're just being melodramatic, but I think they are serious. Maybe it's not as striking an image as running into a burning building and rescuing a child, but I think that it is worthwhile, and I'm extremely proud of every person here who has helped out in any capacity. |
Everyone involved in the #SaveCoH campaign are heroes in my eyes. No we are not ending cancer...no we are not saving people from hunger...but we are fighting to save a community of thousands which in my book is pretty damn heroic.
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![](http://www.fragglerockforever.com/CoX/toons.jpg)
For more than selfish reasons, I would love to see this community after going through this and having City Of Heroes remain.
I have no false expectations of some idealistic utopian online community, haha... But I would love to have back what we had before August 31st... yet with the new connections I have made with the people involved in these efforts and all of us with a greater understanding and appreciation of each other and what we believe we have here.
The more I go through this process with everyone involved, the more I refuse to lose this community. I know that is entirely in our hands, but I would absolutely love to see full success for several reasons and one of them is to absolutely have this community back, mostly in tact and see what we'd do with the bonds we've developed and the experiences we've shared through it all.
And, EternalAmethyst, put your words back up, mate.
I am sorry that we did not post in here sooner. You had probably the two most bitter posters around here these days come in and rain on your positivity.
Don't let them affect ya. I know it makes it seem like it's not worth bothering posting in here sometimes... but there are countless more people who like what you had to say than there are dissenters.
And... if you have no dissenters... you know you're not standing up for anything. Haters are gonna hate... But, you know what... there are a bunch of lovers and dreamers here and we're not backing down.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
For more than selfish reasons, I would love to see this community after going through this and having City Of Heroes remain.
I have no false expectations of some idealistic utopian online community, haha... But I would love to have back what we had before August 31st... yet with the new connections I have made with the people involved in these efforts and all of us with a greater understanding and appreciation of each other and what we believe we have here. The more I go through this process with everyone involved, the more I refuse to lose this community. I know that is entirely in our hands, but I would absolutely love to see full success for several reasons and one of them is to absolutely have this community back, mostly in tact and see what we'd do with the bonds we've developed and the experiences we've shared through it all. And, EternalAmethyst, put your words back up, mate. I am sorry that we did not post in here sooner. You had probably the two most bitter posters around here these days come in and rain on your positivity. Don't let them affect ya. I know it makes it seem like it's not worth bothering posting in here sometimes... but there are countless more people who like what you had to say than there are dissenters. And... if you have no dissenters... you know you're not standing up for anything. Haters are gonna hate... But, you know what... there are a bunch of lovers and dreamers here and we're not backing down. |
Now instead of not caring if a bunch of people play or not, how about a little more marketing, a little more getting the word out, BEFORE it's about to be shutdown, and encouraging people to stay instead of trying to run them off and doing all of that until the point that the game turn a profit so big that even a multi-billion dollar corporation would be absolutely nuts to get rid of.
-Female Player-
Maybe now, when we see another game be shutdown, instead of thinking or saying "oh well sucks to be them" like in the past, now it's a greater understanding of what it is like.
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Hundreds of players are exploring the stars at any moment, thanks to two things especially: community and determination. EA hasn't so much as attempted to write a cease and desist letter because they know the Earth and Beyond community will decentralize in response, and just like the Ultima Online emulator community did years before, there would be dozens of professionally run servers (and thousands of, ahem, other sorts) for them to fuss with their lawyers over--something that would cost them much money and effort for very few results as a reward.
A few years ago, a new CEO at EA finally bowed to pressure and bad PR, and publicly admitted that EA's strategy of killing their competition by buying them out and shutting them down over the years had been, perhaps, not well-thought out. Meanwhile, Earth and Beyond's old producer recently said he's amazed and thrilled by what his [destroyed] studio's fans have done. Or rather, what they didn't do: give up.
I'd love to read comments like that from Brian Clayton or Matt Miller some day, years from now, which is why I'm admittedly disappointed by the news that the Titan Network has decided not to get behind a City of Heroes emulator. Bowing to legal fears and concerns doesn't impress someone who's been there, done that, and is still a member of two emulator communities, both very successful for years now, where many MMO players have sworn off big publishers as a matter of principle (and, perhaps, the wisdom of experience).
The Earth and Beyond emulator team is reportedly gearing up to start their own real-deal studio after the emulator hits the "Live" stage and they release all server code to the public. After nearly a decade of surmounting every single speed bump and Mount Everest in their way, they've proven to themselves, to their fans, and to the MMO development community, that they can achieve the seemingly impossible.
The Titan Network's Plan Z, on the other hand, is also admirable, and achievable. But it is also extraordinarily awesome in scope, and would be even for an already established studio. The idea that a group of players--some who couldn't agree on the most basic gameplay mechanics during their years on these forums--could get together and...eesh, it's a heavy order, even for an Optimism Incarnate like me.
You just don't slap an MMO together, not if you want it to deserve the moniker of City of Heroes' spiritual successor. MMO designers who make great games have years of experience behind them, and that's only half of the equation. The other half is the ability to work well together, and working well together ALWAYS, INEVITABLY means saying "yes sir" to the programming lead, or content lead, or art lead, or assistant lead, or team lead, or whoever it is you're under. Even when you hate their idea with all your heart. THAT is what working together truly means, and if you can't do it, you can't make a good game. This is why I brought up the Earth and Beyond team: because they're sitting on a success right now that has earned more respect than ire in their industry, and it's allowed some of them (who previously had little or no experience) to cut their teeth on game design and learn from experience. Some of these guys and gals wouldn't be prepared to start their own studio and make their own game if they hadn't brought their old game back to life first.
Sorry for rambling. Thanks for reading, if you did.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
But that's OK.. I have a solution for prats like you.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.