We are Heroes! This is what we do!

"Agree with me or you're a troll. All people who do not agree with me should just shut the **** up." - FFM

I don't think it's the disagreeing he takes issues with. But I'm sure a smart guy like you knew that already.

Wow, dude... it was never about the "fake heroes" in a "fake game" that was at the core of the issue here. This game has brought out the best in people like no other MMO. In an IRL world, where profiteering and stabbing people in the back is not only normal, but in many cases, encouraged, CoH has granted us a radiant sun in which the best part of our psyche has a chance to grow and flourish.

No, many of us don't run into burning buildings and save people. But that doesn't mean we wouldn't. That you view heroes as such implies that you don't pay much attention to what those heroes say in interviews afterward. The typical response is something to the effect of, "I was just in the right place at the right time and I did what I needed to do." That is often the defining factor. Not many of us get to walk down the street, see a crime getting committed, or a building about to collapse, to be given the opportunity to risk life and limb and do something heroic. But who are you to decide who does or doesn't have that in their heart? To say, "If you were like that, you'd be out doing it", is just silly. There are heroes out there who will never get recognized, because random chance will never grant them that critical moment to spring into action. And even then, have you taken a census? Do you know who on these forums is a peacekeeper in a warzone, a firefighter, an EMT, a lawyer trying to help someone keep their home, or a street-tough kid who stood up for the class wimp while he was being threatened by bullies? I didn't think so.

But I know this. I've never seen a more solid gaming community than I do here. A lot of blood families won't even pull for each other the way we do here. Charities have been raised as a result of this game, and even in this dark hour that spirit of giving has lived on, and is still helping people when they need it. And say what you want about whether or not risk of life is required to be a hero. But even generosity, in this morally bedridden society that we're all forced to live in every day, takes an aspect of heroism, and that's courage. It takes real courage to do good in a world where Villainy is commonplace.

If TonyV chooses to connect with the brightest corner of our souls in order to inspire and motivate us, what is wrong with that? Calling ourselves heroes doesn't take anything away from our role models, who we still look up to. Many of us will never get the chance to be a hero. But that doesn't mean we don't have the attitude.

no wonder cornflakes taste like piss these days. or at least how i would imagine piss to taste and based on description from another person who has tasted piss. cornflakes.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Ah there we go.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Also you could be seeing protest signs with those words all over the game if you downloaded a few tiny files:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297453

Edit: Here's the exact post. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=16

uh oh. downloading files.

Where did they come from?
Who made them?
Where is their privacy statement?
Who is in charge if they dont work.
Where is this company located?
How long they been around?
Are they affiliated with Google? Microsoft? Yahoo? Anyone else?

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

While I do in sense agree with Angry_Citizen on some aspect of that TonyV guy, I do agree with you that everyday people can and have been heroes. TonyV's motives seem a little suspect, but hey, if that is what inspires people to help save this game, then more power to him.

And I know for sure this game havent brought otu the best in everybody. Plenty of people with internet gorilla balls running around that would not behave, act like or say 1% of the stuff they get away with on here because they are tucked and safe behind the screen. On the other hand, some people who were not socialable in person probably found it easy to be socialble here .Some people that didnt knwo how to make friends in the outside world found it easy to make friends here. Some people who might have even been social rejects, find it easy to finally be te most popular guy around on here. The community thing I think probably helped alot of people and I hope those reasons are the ultimate goal of saving this game. Although people have various reasons for saving this game and none are wrong. Some people want to just continue to be able to play and damn the community. Some people dont care what game is created as long as the community there. Some people want both some wants neither and have different reason. I just hope that some people can see beyond the differences and realize that they might just want the same thing in one fashion or another. Even though some will not accept COH incarnate and nothing less while some people want something COH like. Those are the goals, now how do we get there? That is the ten million dollar question.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Granted. Every game has jerks. But I've been able to tell that the troll ratio is certainly a lot lower here than in any other game I've been to. And whenever someone does start to become a problem, they tend to get "run out of town" pretty fast. I've seen the bullying get routed here just as quickly as would purse-snatching in a superhero universe. And this is also the only game where not once have I seen anyone say "lolrp"

I dont know usually here, unless the bully is targeting a popular person, everyone seems to remain quiet. If the popular person is doing the bullying, everyone just laughs it off and call the other person as being too sensative and or try to run them out of town. Only time I've seen a run out of town attempt is when the target is a popular person with a bunch of friends. Now dont egt me wrong, this community is over all friendly relatively but I've seen lot friendlier online community. In game, it's a different story it seems havent seen much friendlier as far games go outside CO. Usually not too many jerks hanging around or doing much stupid stuff. Forum wise, it seems all bets are off and it's WoW all over again.

Ironically I see "lolrp", whatever that means quite often on virtue. Or at least used to, especially in Atlas and Pocket D. A couple of times in Talos a week, and only one time in past four months in PI. Is that an insult to role players?

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

It's pretty much trollspeak (or sometimes PvPspeak) for, "You should leave. I don't like you. And I don't like you, because you are stupid for RPing in an mmoRPg." Somehow, there is a group of players, and in most cases that group is the majority, who feel that RP has no place in the MMO world.

It's pretty much the equivalent to highschool jocks suddenly deciding that playing chess is now cool. And the first thing they do is try to scare away the uncool chess club so they can take over.

ah. lot of trolls on virtue then or was.

learn something new everyday.

I find it a bit ironic that someone would make fun of another for Rping. I mean unless that person is some spandex wearing super power throwing human/mutant/powersuit/beast in RL, then in a way they are role playing too.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Or at the least, being VERY childish in a way. Some years ago, I hit this realization, that if you take away the game element, we're pretty much all playing dress-up with dolls and action figures. But for some reason it's more socially acceptable because those action figures can now talk, run around, shoot lasers, and kick **** all by remote control. A pretty fascinating paradox to ponder over.

You know, I'm okay with this. If I didn't convey that impression to at least a few people, it would have been a clear sign that I was not emphatic enough and that my post was an utter failure for what it is designed to do: evoke a sense of exigency strong enough to call people to action.

Actually--and hold on to your socks because I'm about to blow your mind--it's both. Saving the community is easy. I can keep the Titan Network forums running indefinitely, post a few "Hey everyone, let's just convene over there!" messages, and mission accomplished.

If we stopped there, though, then 80+ people would still be out of a job and the labor of their love, their pièce de résistance, their Mona Lisa, would be destroyed for no good reason.

Believing that is your prerogative. Some people think that if the Mona Lisa were thrown into a bonfire and destroyed, hey, no worries. It's just a thing, and it was really kind of ugly anyway. Others fall somewhere in between the two extremes on the spectrum. Different people are coming at this from different angles, and believe me, the community is a major consideration of why I have been fighting so hard.

So that's your cutoff? You have to put yourself in mortal peril? So someone who fights a company who is dumping waste and destroying environmental resources, they're not a hero? After all, there's very little risk of mortal peril in a courtroom with metal detectors and all. A football player who is a great sportsman and role model in convincing kids to pursue high standards of academic excellence instead of just worshiping his physical prowess isn't a hero? When John F. Kennedy was piloting his PT boat, I suppose that was pretty heroic since he could have been shot and killed, but when he was navigating the tricky minefield that was the Cuban Missile Crisis, that wasn't particularly heroic since he'd probably be pretty safe and sound in the event of an actual nuclear strike?

To me, a hero is someone who fights for a noble goal, who clearly goes above and beyond the call of duty to set right things that are wrong. Are people who put their lives on the line to do so heroes? Oh, hell yes they are. Do you have to put yourself in mortal danger to be a hero? Absolutely not. And in that spirit, I really do think that we are heroes.

What NCsoft is doing is wrong. Destroying years of hard work and creativity when there are viable options in which everyone can benefit is wrong. Laying off 80+ people instead of spinning off Paragon Studios and keeping those people employed is wrong. Needlessly destroying a large chunk of a strong community without warning after helping to build it up is wrong. To me, fighting against this injustice is a noble goal, and the people doing it aren't just piloting fake heroes in a game, they deserve every ounce of support, appreciation, and respect that people have to offer.

Incidentally, if you still insist that lives have to be saved, people have told us that City of Heroes has quite literally saved their lives in some way by helping them through hard times and allowing them to make friends that they wouldn't have otherwise met. Maybe you think they're just being melodramatic, but I think they are serious. Maybe it's not as striking an image as running into a burning building and rescuing a child, but I think that it is worthwhile, and I'm extremely proud of every person here who has helped out in any capacity.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Don't forget though, this community HAS made IRL contributions. http://realworldhero.com/

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

If in theory it is saved in tact, I hope there is a more cherish every moment attitude and not thinking it will all last forever or it can never happen to this game. I think by now, most people figured out that even a good game, like this one, is not immune to be shutdown. Maybe now, when we see another game be shutdown, instead of thinking or saying "oh well sucks to be them" like in the past, now it's a greater understanding of what it is like. I hope there would be some change that is not temporary that last the first few weeks and then back to the old until it's on the chopping block again.
Now instead of not caring if a bunch of people play or not, how about a little more marketing, a little more getting the word out, BEFORE it's about to be shutdown, and encouraging people to stay instead of trying to run them off and doing all of that until the point that the game turn a profit so big that even a multi-billion dollar corporation would be absolutely nuts to get rid of.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

The last time this happened to my favorite MMO, me and a whole lot of other players boycotted the publisher, and joined together as a community that was unwilling to let their game die. And it wasn't just talk. It took eight years, but Earth and Beyond is now in a feature complete beta state, faithful to the original game; and also chalk-full of new updates, features, art and story content made by, and funded by the players, and implemented by a professional dev team who has worked together for years-- to achieve a quality free service, and to right a wrong that was done to their fans.

Hundreds of players are exploring the stars at any moment, thanks to two things especially: community and determination. EA hasn't so much as attempted to write a cease and desist letter because they know the Earth and Beyond community will decentralize in response, and just like the Ultima Online emulator community did years before, there would be dozens of professionally run servers (and thousands of, ahem, other sorts) for them to fuss with their lawyers over--something that would cost them much money and effort for very few results as a reward.

A few years ago, a new CEO at EA finally bowed to pressure and bad PR, and publicly admitted that EA's strategy of killing their competition by buying them out and shutting them down over the years had been, perhaps, not well-thought out. Meanwhile, Earth and Beyond's old producer recently said he's amazed and thrilled by what his [destroyed] studio's fans have done. Or rather, what they didn't do: give up.

I'd love to read comments like that from Brian Clayton or Matt Miller some day, years from now, which is why I'm admittedly disappointed by the news that the Titan Network has decided not to get behind a City of Heroes emulator. Bowing to legal fears and concerns doesn't impress someone who's been there, done that, and is still a member of two emulator communities, both very successful for years now, where many MMO players have sworn off big publishers as a matter of principle (and, perhaps, the wisdom of experience).

The Earth and Beyond emulator team is reportedly gearing up to start their own real-deal studio after the emulator hits the "Live" stage and they release all server code to the public. After nearly a decade of surmounting every single speed bump and Mount Everest in their way, they've proven to themselves, to their fans, and to the MMO development community, that they can achieve the seemingly impossible.

The Titan Network's Plan Z, on the other hand, is also admirable, and achievable. But it is also extraordinarily awesome in scope, and would be even for an already established studio. The idea that a group of players--some who couldn't agree on the most basic gameplay mechanics during their years on these forums--could get together and...eesh, it's a heavy order, even for an Optimism Incarnate like me.

You just don't slap an MMO together, not if you want it to deserve the moniker of City of Heroes' spiritual successor. MMO designers who make great games have years of experience behind them, and that's only half of the equation. The other half is the ability to work well together, and working well together ALWAYS, INEVITABLY means saying "yes sir" to the programming lead, or content lead, or art lead, or assistant lead, or team lead, or whoever it is you're under. Even when you hate their idea with all your heart. THAT is what working together truly means, and if you can't do it, you can't make a good game. This is why I brought up the Earth and Beyond team: because they're sitting on a success right now that has earned more respect than ire in their industry, and it's allowed some of them (who previously had little or no experience) to cut their teeth on game design and learn from experience. Some of these guys and gals wouldn't be prepared to start their own studio and make their own game if they hadn't brought their old game back to life first.

Sorry for rambling. Thanks for reading, if you did.