Worst MMO ever


Arcanaville

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Hypothetically speaking, if I was trapped in a VR MMO and someone berated me for looking for alternate ways out, I'd probably kill them and then go back to looking for alternate ways out.
I've got anime logic on my side. Idiots can defeat geniuses with pure determination so using genre savvyness, i'll intentionally let you underestimate me and kill you instead.


 

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I'd tear the helmet off and fry my brain immediately, giving a middle finger as I do it.

Seriously, the problem with most sadistic scenarios like this is that there is no leverage, no repercussions for the villain, no guarantees of anything, and no morality of the villain to stop them from doing anything more insane than what has already transpired. You're stuck in a world with a malignant god with no way to fight back. They want you to play the game, so you don't play the game.



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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid View Post
I'd tear the helmet off and fry my brain immediately, giving a middle finger as I do it.

Seriously, the problem with most sadistic scenarios like this is that there is no leverage, no repercussions for the villain, no guarantees of anything, and no morality of the villain to stop them from doing anything more insane than what has already transpired. You're stuck in a world with a malignant god with no way to fight back. They want you to play the game, so you don't play the game.
Not playing the game that way also means you let them win.

When you can play the game as you try to figure out a way to fight back. You either get out, die anyways, or you get out alive while able to get revenge/justice/what have you on the one who put you in that place.

Sometimes getting out alive is the only reward. Sometimes justice doesn't get dealt.


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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I've got anime logic on my side. Idiots can defeat geniuses with pure determination so using genre savvyness, i'll intentionally let you underestimate me and kill you instead.
I wouldn't estimate a target I had to kill for real. I'm not an anime villain. If my life depended on surviving City of Heroes combat I would use my entire inspiration tray to kill a minion, and I would use nukes on a player with only five points of health left. And then I would run out to sniper range and wait to see if it rezzed. While stealthed. And running a full complement of amplifiers. With all the base buffs.

The only thing killing me in a deathmatch MMO is the RNG.


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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Sometimes getting out alive is the only reward. Sometimes justice doesn't get dealt.
Just because it might not be possible to win, doesn't mean you shouldn't recognize who the real enemy is. The real enemy is the game dev, and the real game is against him. The MMO itself is a meta game. Win or lose, my sole goal would be to beat the dev. Everything else is a distraction, even if a very dangerous one.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid View Post
I'd tear the helmet off and fry my brain immediately, giving a middle finger as I do it.

Seriously, the problem with most sadistic scenarios like this is that there is no leverage, no repercussions for the villain, no guarantees of anything, and no morality of the villain to stop them from doing anything more insane than what has already transpired. You're stuck in a world with a malignant god with no way to fight back. They want you to play the game, so you don't play the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Just because it might not be possible to win, doesn't mean you shouldn't recognize who the real enemy is. The real enemy is the game dev, and the real game is against him. The MMO itself is a meta game. Win or lose, my sole goal would be to beat the dev. Everything else is a distraction, even if a very dangerous one.
Take out all the sci-fi stuff about VR and neural connections and an MMO, and what we basically have is a hostage situation. The criminal has a gun, a bomb, something that gives him life and death leverage over everyone at no risk to himself, and he's telling them that if they want to be released, they have to jump through his hoops.

On the one hand, we should always be looking for a chance to wrest power from him when he least expects it and escape that way. But on the other, if a criminal has a gun drawn on you and says "dance like a chicken and I'll let you go," would you really choose to instead let him pull the trigger, just to make a philosophical point about free will? This criminal went one better than most hostage-takers by giving his hostages a way out, so I'd focus on keeping everyone safe and taking advantage of it, so 10,000 people can then march right over to his real-life house and give him a collective beatdown.

On the third hand (hey, it works for Zaphod!), this troubles me...

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Originally Posted by starphoenix View Post
An amusing moment in the anime was when the dev made every avatar look like the player. So the classic male playing as a female to get good loot for free from other players turns into a male. Resulting in an awkward situation.
If the developer's willing to meddle with people's interactions above and beyond the rules of the game, then he's not playing by his own rules. I haven't read anything apart from this thread and the Wiki article on SAO, but that suggests he can and will interfere with any mass escape plan that gets too close to succeeding, even if everyone's following his rules. In that case, we'd keep playing the game (after all, he's still holding a gun on 10,000 people), but the game becomes even more of a pretense for hacking the system from within, secretly coordinating with people on the outside, finding exploits that screw up the engine or some other method of breaking his hold on the situation.


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Originally Posted by Sparkly Soldier View Post
On the one hand, we should always be looking for a chance to wrest power from him when he least expects it and escape that way. But on the other, if a criminal has a gun drawn on you and says "dance like a chicken and I'll let you go," would you really choose to instead let him pull the trigger, just to make a philosophical point about free will?
Just because you dance like a chicken when the gun is on you doesn't mean you can't be looking for another way out while you're doing it.

Nor does it preclude observation of the gunman's behavior while you're dancing, so that you can try to get inside his head.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkly Soldier View Post
Take out all the sci-fi stuff about VR and neural connections and an MMO, and what we basically have is a hostage situation. The criminal has a gun, a bomb, something that gives him life and death leverage over everyone at no risk to himself, and he's telling them that if they want to be released, they have to jump through his hoops.

On the one hand, we should always be looking for a chance to wrest power from him when he least expects it and escape that way. But on the other, if a criminal has a gun drawn on you and says "dance like a chicken and I'll let you go," would you really choose to instead let him pull the trigger, just to make a philosophical point about free will?
Let's ask the crew of the USS Pueblo:


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Posted

Um, okay.

Quote:
Following an apology, a written admission by the U.S. that Pueblo had been spying, and an assurance that the U.S. would not spy in the future, the North Korean government decided to release the 82 remaining crew members, although the written apology was preceded by a verbal statement that it was done only to secure the release. On 23 December 1968, the crew was taken by buses to the DMZ border with South Korea and ordered to walk south one by one across the "Bridge of No Return". Exactly eleven months after being taken prisoner, the Captain led the long line of crewmen, followed at the end by the Executive Officer, Lieutenant Ed Murphy, the last man across the bridge. The U.S. then verbally retracted the ransom admission, apology, and assurance.
Sounds like exactly what I was saying: play along long enough to get out alive, and worry about getting revenge later. Virtual reality trappings aside, this is precisely the same situation that Bane had Gotham City in during Dark Knight Rises: the villain could kill thousands of people instantly, so people have to play his game until they can secretly figure out how to fight back without dying instantly. If "playing his game" in this case gets them out faster than playing along until they've outsmarted and beaten the villain, that works too. They're not mutually exclusive plans.


"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."

 

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Well, except that they gave the finger to the camera so that the propaganda photos ("see? look how well these Americans are doing in our lovely country") would be ruined, even though they were beaten for it once their captors figured out what the gesture means, and that Commander Bucher's forced confession says "we paean" (pronounced "pee on") North Korea, its people, and its leader.

They played along when it couldn't be avoided, but they also found ways to fight back.