PPM and katana, Nerf or not?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

From what i hear, this is going to nerf the katana set's io usage, since due to it's lower recharge the chance to proc will be insanely low on gamblers and ( To a lesser extent) golden

Most notably, the -res procs, which are awesome, would be heavily effected if this is true.

Someone tell me i'm wrong


 

Posted

From everything I read on the topic (which is, really, a bunch of Hopeling posts here and there), it should be a buff for anything but extremely low recharge powers, like GC or Neutrino's Bolt. So even if GC takes a hit, Katana as a whole is likely to end up better - Gaussian proc in BU, and so on.


 

Posted

Well the Attuned version of Achilles is 3PPM so in I24 it should get 3.75PPM while the current crafted Achilles Heel has a 20% chance to proc.

Now working backwards at 3.75PPM Achilles will have a 20% chance to proc when the recharge time of Gambler's Cut is 2.53 seconds (ignoring global recharge). That works out to 18.5% Recharge Enhancement.

So yeah unless you aren't slotting any recharge in Gambler's Cut itself it's a bit of a nerf but not a major one. Even at 95% recharge enhancement you'll still have a 13.8% chance to proc.


 

Posted

So, Basically, Gamblers and REALLY UNGODLY QUICK powers will likely be the only things nerfed through this? And even then will still have decent performance?

So if i chain Flashing>Lotus> flashing with procs, Would that work out as better or worse with procs?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Well the Attuned version of Achilles is 3PPM so in I24 it should get 3.75PPM while the current crafted Achilles Heel has a 20% chance to proc.

Now working backwards at 3.75PPM Achilles will have a 20% chance to proc when the recharge time of Gambler's Cut is 2.53 seconds (ignoring global recharge). That works out to 18.5% Recharge Enhancement.

So yeah unless you aren't slotting any recharge in Gambler's Cut itself it's a bit of a nerf but not a major one. Even at 95% recharge enhancement you'll still have a 13.8% chance to proc.
Then as soon as you add an alpha recharge in their you get screwed over again. I am Hoping they implement a cap on how much of a hit you take by making a minimum base line. he talked about it at one time I have not followed it since the change.

Over all it will be a nerf to several sets


Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
Then as soon as you add an alpha recharge in their you get screwed over again. I am Hoping they implement a cap on how much of a hit you take by making a minimum base line. he talked about it at one time I have not followed it since the change.

Over all it will be a nerf to several sets
Simple solution since 2nd ATO's probably will released with i24 (or shortly after it) I will be putting second set in GC anyway for critical chance proc and moving achielle along with hecatomb set into soaring dragon. Still have similiar -res proc chance but now i get +critical chance with my top attack chain being gc-gd-gc-sd so it is a win-win situation.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangstor View Post
Simple solution since 2nd ATO's probably will released with i24 (or shortly after it) I will be putting second set in GC anyway for critical chance proc and moving achielle along with hecatomb set into soaring dragon. Still have similiar -res proc chance but now i get +critical chance with my top attack chain being gc-gd-gc-sd so it is a win-win situation.
Looks like their will be a floor and they are no longer going to punish you for global recharge (alphas still do)

So it will be a slight nerf to some but not as bad as the initial one they where looking to implement. Just adds another headache to building out my toons. Now I have to look at my db/ea I am working on


Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
Looks like their will be a floor and they are no longer going to punish you for global recharge (alphas still do)

So it will be a slight nerf to some but not as bad as the initial one they where looking to implement. Just adds another headache to building out my toons. Now I have to look at my db/ea I am working on
Well i don't see why a katana scrapper needs recharge alpha but than again maybe a clicke heavy secondary requires it. I personally uses muscularate anyway.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangstor View Post
Well i don't see why a katana scrapper needs recharge alpha but than again maybe a clicke heavy secondary requires it. I personally uses muscularate anyway.
Regen scrappers rely on a lot of recharge


Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

 

Posted

Oh, thank Rularuu, a PPM thread that isn't filled with rampant misinformation and unfounded nerf-panic.

Yeah, a few characters (although not many) will get worse overall from the PPM changes, but not by a lot. If you move your Achilles' proc into Soaring Dragon, even if you have ~130% slotted recharge (ED cap + Spiritual Core Paragon), it'll still have a 3.75*(1.33+9/(1+1.3))/60= ~33% proc chance. This is not much worse than getting two 20% proc chances from Gambler's Cut, especially once you consider the diminishing returns on multiple Achilles procs per 10-second window due to its non-stacking nature. Meanwhile, for quite a lot of other uses, PPM is a straight buff: the Gaussian proc in Build Up will have a ~90% proc chance, rather than its current measly 5%, and an Armageddon proc in Golden Dragonfly will have a proc chance of at least 53% and possibly higher depending on slotting, compared to its current 33%.

Overall, I would definitely not call the changes a nerf for the current flat-rate procs. Procs that are already PPM are getting pretty directly nerfed, but still not by as much as one might think.


 

Posted

Well I would only call it a nerf for SBE procs since there is no reason to buy them after changes :P


 

Posted

There are reasons, but they're the same reasons to buy any other SBE - namely, that they work without an invention license, and they can be slotted at any level, and you don't have to deal with the auction house nor with crafting them.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
There are reasons, but they're the same reasons to buy any other SBE - namely, that they work without an invention license, and they can be slotted at any level, and you don't have to deal with the auction house nor with crafting them.
No they can't be slotted at any level they can be only slotted at the level range of set itself which kinda kills the SBE procs need since you can just put same sets lowest proc and have same effects. And iirc they indeed require IO license.


 

Posted

Er, yes, only within the level range of the set.

But really, those are the draws of the SBE sets in general. Although it seems to have been forgotten now, very few players were even aware that SBE procs were PPM, or even what a PPM is, for quite some time after SBEs first appeared. It wasn't until the first round of ATOs and the Performance Shifter proc thread that it seemed to become common knowledge. Yet the SBEs were selling just fine the whole time.
Some players so dislike crafting, or have so little inf, that they don't use or can't afford IO procs at all, certainly not minimum-level procs that are generally more expensive and harder to obtain than the max-level versions. And far more players than you might expect just from reading the forums have a very hard time getting enough inf to buy purples.

SBEs definitely do not require an invention license.


 

Posted

The reason for SBE for me is that I hate the crafting consignment meta game. I like TF's and merits is how I IO'd out my heroes. The second reason is that they are always usable within the level range of the set. Not to mention the end game is meh to me.

IO's bonuses, outside pvp ios/purples, are not available when you down level for said TF's either.

I don't only use SBO's (I do play the consignment house game of thrones now and again), but there are definite upsides to using them. As vip I get 400 points a month to blow anyhow.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Late2Party View Post
The reason for SBE for me is that I hate the crafting consignment meta game. I like TF's and merits is how I IO'd out my heroes. The second reason is that they are always usable within the level range of the set. Not to mention the end game is meh to me.
All procs are usable in their set level range so SBE does not bring anything new on this matter and procs doesn't change effectiveness with their crafted level so no new development in there either. Although crafting may a valid point you can always buy a crafted on from AE which brings thing down to paying with inf vs paying with money and that is all about the difference.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangstor View Post
All procs are usable in their set level range so SBE does not bring anything new on this matter and procs doesn't change effectiveness with their crafted level so no new development in there either. Although crafting may a valid point you can always buy a crafted on from AE which brings thing down to paying with inf vs paying with money and that is all about the difference.
I was speaking more on benefits of SBEs. On that note how much do level 46 LOTG +recharge cost on consignment compared to cost of a level 25 one?

That is what I'm talking about. The SBE will always provide the maximum defense at the level you are and what you exemplar to. It will also work as low as possible just like the more expensive level 25 ones.

Damage procs yeah, just get the lowest one but I was speaking of SBE's in general.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Late2Party View Post
I was speaking more on benefits of SBEs. On that note how much do level 46 LOTG +recharge cost on consignment compared to cost of a level 25 one?

That is what I'm talking about. The SBE will always provide the maximum defense at the level you are and what you exemplar to. It will also work as low as possible just like the more expensive level 25 ones.

Damage procs yeah, just get the lowest one but I was speaking of SBE's in general.
True but than again in-game enhancements if they have any kind of level based parameter (like LoTG: global recharges defense enhancement) than they can be upgraded by enhacement boosters. On a toon that examplars alot SBE may look more tempting but on other hand if you stay at end game more frequently than having in-game ehancements and boosting them is far more efficient.


 

Posted

Rather than viewing this as a nerf to katana, I prefer to think of it as a buff to broadsword, which is a set that REALLY needs some love.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Rather than viewing this as a nerf to katana, I prefer to think of it as a buff to broadsword, which is a set that REALLY needs some love.
It has love BS can get Shield katana can't.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangstor View Post
It has love BS can get Shield katana can't.
Some comfort that is to my BS/Inv, especially since he was created long before Shield even existed


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Some comfort that is to my BS/Inv, especially since he was created long before Shield even existed
One of my first three toons was a bs/inv. OMG, that toon was a MONSTER back in those days. Players now have no idea.

I deleted it after the third round of invuln and scrapper nerfs, and have never regretted it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
One of my first three toons was a bs/inv. OMG, that toon was a MONSTER back in those days. Players now have no idea.

I deleted it after the third round of invuln and scrapper nerfs, and have never regretted it.
Yes you had 5 slotted damage and perma unstoppable


Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
Yes you had 5 slotted damage and perma unstoppable
No, actually, I never went for the perma-unstoppable trick. Way too nerve-wracking. I just had Invincibility six slotted, 4 defense, 2 end reduction.

That was literally all you needed for anything less than +8's.


Ahhhh, glorious.....


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
No, actually, I never went for the perma-unstoppable trick. Way too nerve-wracking. I just had Invincibility six slotted, 4 defense, 2 end reduction.

That was literally all you needed for anything less than +8's.


Ahhhh, glorious.....
My first was katana/sr perma elude was my friend


Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA