Is Choking Cloud worth taking on an ill/Rad?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-08-01 22:14 in Controllers
I took it and enjoy it, but then one of my favorite things to do is activate it, dive into a spawn and fire off EMP, then Consume. Pretty much guarantees everything in the spawn is held (especially with a lockdown proc).
As for Invisibility... I fully slotted it but it was one of my first characters and now that I've got a lot more experience under my belt I'm honestly considering respecing and cutting slots. Though you can drop 5 Red Fortunes into it for the recharge bonus and a Gambler's proc.
but for the most part it's not really worth it for the defense since half of it suppresses in combat (and it's already very low to begin with). It's totally worth it to run though, stealthing whole missions if need be.
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Yeah this pretty much describes me. My ill/rad was my first 50 to fully deck out in enhancements and sets and my initial thought process was "The more sets the better" and the Red Fortunes and a Gambler is exactly what's in it at the moment. |
Originally Posted by Agent White
As for Invisibility... I fully slotted it but it was one of my first characters and now that I've got a lot more experience under my belt I'm honestly considering respecing and cutting slots. Though you can drop 5 Red Fortunes into it for the recharge bonus and a Gambler's proc.
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I have more experience with IOs and sets now and trying to respec this guy but still unsure of what to drop and what to pick up. I initially didn't get Choking Cloud, although I can't remember why exactly to safe my life. I do see your point about using it with EMP but I have the Psi pool so no Consume, not sure how well it'll fair for me without it.
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You can get by equally well with Flash, I just use EMP for the -extremely- short cast time.
You can also use choking cloud as a basilisk's gaze mule.
I personally don't use Choking Cloud. I tend to fight at range and it drains a lot of end.
I have Superior Invisibility six slotted, 5 red fortune and a gambler proc.
I use both Flash and EMP. EMP has that pesky recovery killing and a longer recharge. So I use Flash for most crowds and EMP as an emergency.
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This is exactly my position on whether to use Choking Cloud . . . it is the advice I give in my Ill/Rad guide (link below). I also prefer to play from range. I tried Choking Cloud on my Ill/Rad at one time, and found it to be mostly useless.|
Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I personally don't use Choking Cloud. I tend to fight at range and it drains a lot of end.
I have Superior Invisibility six slotted, 5 red fortune and a gambler proc. I use both Flash and EMP. EMP has that pesky recovery killing and a longer recharge. So I use Flash for most crowds and EMP as an emergency. |
Choking Cloud's odd way of working makes it less ideal for an Ill/Rad. It needs 5-6 slots to function properly, and sucks down a huge amount of endurance. All that for a part-time erratic AoE hold that takes a while to take effect.
Choking Cloud isn't enough by itself . . . it needs some kind of secondary control, preferably something continual. Fire/Rads have Hot Feet (with Slow and Afraid and damage), Elec/Rad has Static Field and Conductive Aura (to drain endurance), and Ice/Rad has Arctic Air (Slow, Afraid and Confuse). You could combine CC and Spectral Terror, but Spooky alone does the job of control without Choking Cloud's slot and endurance cost. The only reason to use CC is to set up Containment, and I don't think CC is worth the endurance cost and cost of 5-6 slots for a fairly small benefit since you don't have any AoE damage until APP levels. Before that, Blind sets up Containment for your single target attacks, so you don't need CC.
I'm not a fan of set mules, and it is possible to get a perma-PA Illusion/Rad build without wasting the slots and endurance on Choking Cloud. I love it on my Fire/Rad and Elec/Rad, and I even have it on my Plant/Rad.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Yea, I read the guide when my Ill/Rad was about mid-30's. Was very informative.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
This is exactly my position on whether to use Choking Cloud . . . it is the advice I give in my Ill/Rad guide (link below). I also prefer to play from range. I tried Choking Cloud on my Ill/Rad at one time, and found it to be mostly useless.
Choking Cloud's odd way of working makes it less ideal for an Ill/Rad. It needs 5-6 slots to function properly, and sucks down a huge amount of endurance. All that for a part-time erratic AoE hold that takes a while to take effect. Choking Cloud isn't enough by itself . . . it needs some kind of secondary control, preferably something continual. Fire/Rads have Hot Feet (with Slow and Afraid and damage), Elec/Rad has Static Field and Conductive Aura (to drain endurance), and Ice/Rad has Arctic Air (Slow, Afraid and Confuse). You could combine CC and Spectral Terror, but Spooky alone does the job of control without Choking Cloud's slot and endurance cost. The only reason to use CC is to set up Containment, and I don't think CC is worth the endurance cost and cost of 5-6 slots for a fairly small benefit since you don't have any AoE damage until APP levels. Before that, Blind sets up Containment for your single target attacks, so you don't need CC. I'm not a fan of set mules, and it is possible to get a perma-PA Illusion/Rad build without wasting the slots and endurance on Choking Cloud. I love it on my Fire/Rad and Elec/Rad, and I even have it on my Plant/Rad. |
Quote:
HA That's why I didn't take it! I referenced your guide when I was slotting my character, just been so long that I forgot about it. I think I will just leave it off, I did a few missions today and I'm not seeing a great need for it in my playstyle even when teamed, the slots it would take to buff it would be better off in my other powers anyway.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
This is exactly my position on whether to use Choking Cloud . . . it is the advice I give in my Ill/Rad guide (link below). I also prefer to play from range. I tried Choking Cloud on my Ill/Rad at one time, and found it to be mostly useless.
Choking Cloud's odd way of working makes it less ideal for an Ill/Rad. It needs 5-6 slots to function properly, and sucks down a huge amount of endurance. All that for a part-time erratic AoE hold that takes a while to take effect. Choking Cloud isn't enough by itself . . . it needs some kind of secondary control, preferably something continual. Fire/Rads have Hot Feet (with Slow and Afraid and damage), Elec/Rad has Static Field and Conductive Aura (to drain endurance), and Ice/Rad has Arctic Air (Slow, Afraid and Confuse). You could combine CC and Spectral Terror, but Spooky alone does the job of control without Choking Cloud's slot and endurance cost. The only reason to use CC is to set up Containment, and I don't think CC is worth the endurance cost and cost of 5-6 slots for a fairly small benefit since you don't have any AoE damage until APP levels. Before that, Blind sets up Containment for your single target attacks, so you don't need CC. I'm not a fan of set mules, and it is possible to get a perma-PA Illusion/Rad build without wasting the slots and endurance on Choking Cloud. I love it on my Fire/Rad and Elec/Rad, and I even have it on my Plant/Rad. |
Thank you all for the information and for your time.
Globals:
@Animorph
@Animorph 2
Also known as;
Maverick, Living Phantom, Role-Player, Live-Wyre, Eagle Eye, Toy-Man, Cartoon, Jetfire, Reflex, Mer-Man, Spartacus, Step, Reaver...
Choking Cloud is one of those YMMV depending on your playstyle powers.
I really like it, and I wouldn't play without it, but you have to be someone who jumps in the middle a lot. I generally start a fight with PA and ST and then run in.
I see the hold coming up often enough that I appreciate it although most people say its erratic. I like being able to Flash or EM Pulse (which also needs you to be in the middle) and then have it help lockdown any harder targets by applying a second hold (though I know this isn't guaranteed). I put in the chance for +2 mag hold proc and I see that come up a fair amount (it makes the electric hold visual effect). I just like having that little bit more of control on a largely soft control set.
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Quote:
A few things to consider:|
Originally Posted by Kitsune_Rei
Choking Cloud is one of those YMMV depending on your playstyle powers.
I really like it, and I wouldn't play without it, but you have to be someone who jumps in the middle a lot. I generally start a fight with PA and ST and then run in. I see the hold coming up often enough that I appreciate it although most people say its erratic. I like being able to Flash or EM Pulse (which also needs you to be in the middle) and then have it help lockdown any harder targets by applying a second hold (though I know this isn't guaranteed). I put in the chance for +2 mag hold proc and I see that come up a fair amount (it makes the electric hold visual effect). I just like having that little bit more of control on a largely soft control set. |
Yes, Flash requires you to run into or near melee. However, you can do this while invisible without drawing aggro. However, if you are running Choking Cloud, then you are already drawing aggro.
EM Pulse has such a huge AoE that you can hit it fairly far away and still get an entire group in front of you (as well as everyone behind and on either side of you). Just like Flash, you can be invisible when you close into melee, but not if you are running Choking Cloud. Besides, the -Recovery from EM Pulse will most likely cause you to run out of endurance quickly if you are running Choking Cloud unless you pop a lot of blues.
Yes, I like the Lockdown +2 Mag proc in Choking Cloud, too, and have it on my Fire/Rad and Elec/Rad. But keep in mind that the "tesla cage" animation goes off even of the foe was already held without the proc, so the actual effect of that proc is less than it appears. Still, because of the unique way that Choking Cloud works, with two "chance for" holds that can stack a Mag 1 and a Mag 2 hold, that extra Mag 2 provides more benefit than in most powers.
I have known a few folks who like Choking Cloud on their Ill/Rads and that's fine. Some folks just like the power generally. I find it a cornerstone power on my Fire/Rads and my Elec/Rad. However, my opinion is that an Ill/Rad is best played from range, even if it is short range. Choking Cloud is too demanding in terms of slots, endurance and playstyle and doesn't provide all that much benefit. If a foe is already distracted by PA or feared by Spectral Terror, I don't think I need an erratic hold like Choking Cloud on my Ill/Rad.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I recieved very mixed opinions when I asked in-game so thought I'd ask here again to get more opinions and so I can read them over more thoroughly. If it matters, my play style is that I'm in Hover 100% of the time and away from the fighting for the most part.
Also while I had a thread open, is it worth slotting Superior Invis with a Defense Set and leaving it on all the time or would it be better to just throw a couple of end reduces in it and use the extra slots elsewhere?
Thank you for your time.
Globals:
@Animorph
@Animorph 2
Also known as;
Maverick, Living Phantom, Role-Player, Live-Wyre, Eagle Eye, Toy-Man, Cartoon, Jetfire, Reflex, Mer-Man, Spartacus, Step, Reaver...