I have a screenshot illustration too (that I used to answer an old post):
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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Ok cool, i understand EXCEPT for one thing, i see you have taunt slots all the same, i thought the rule from ED no more than 3 of same type OR does this not count towards IO's or IO Sets
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Even though it sounds like you're going the route of SOs and common IOs (still a good way to get used to it,) I wanted to go back to this bit for you.
Thing 1 to remember - Set IOs (any invented IO, really) won't expire. It'll be red when you can't use it, white when you can. Thing 2: The game will tell you what you can slot. Grabbed some shots from my Dark/SS tank to illustrate. To find out what a power will take - hover over it. You'll get a popup like so:  (... and as an aside, you can see I'm using a mixture of set IOs, common IOs (the hexagonal shaped) and SOs (this one's tech, so it's the gears.) Looking at the power information, you'll see two things: ALLOWED ENHANCEMENTS - for this, range, recharge, accuracy, taunt. These are the SOs or common IOs this will take - if you try to stick a Damage SO or (common) IO in here, the slots will grey out, another indicator you can't slot this. ALLOWED SET CATEGORIES: This tells you what *type* of sets this can take. In this case, Taunt can only take Taunt *sets* (and they're broken down in the auction house if you want to look through.) Some can only take one, like this, others can take multiple (for instance, a Snipe could have Ranged damage, Snipe, and - say - Knockback sets as valid for the power.) So how do you know the category if you didn't just buy it at wentworths/the black market, where they're broken down by category? Simple. You look at the recipe itself (the IO will show you this, too. The example below uses an IO.)  This is the Recharge/Accuracy dual IO from the Perfect Zinger set. Going down the display, it gives you: Set name and IO (Perfect Zinger, Recharge/Accuracy) Description of what it does. THe full set *listing* (Set name, and how many are in the set.) The set *category* (which is what you're interested in - it's a Taunt set) And the bonuses for having more than one of the same set in the same power. Having multiple pieces in different powers don't give the set bonus (think of it as a perk for "filling up" a power.) And it will lead to different slotting than your SOs and common IOs. For instance, on SOs I'd barely slot Taunt, but if I want the recharge or defense from this, I'd add more slots here. There's more to go into with these, but they go well past the scope of your prior confusion. Hopefully this helps for if or when you do decide to dig into these. |
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aye TYVM and i'm beginning to understand.
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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
I have a screenshot illustration too (that I used to answer an old post):
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Originally Posted by Emjack
Ok cool, i understand EXCEPT for one thing, i see you have taunt slots all the same, i thought the rule from ED no more than 3 of same type OR does this not count towards IO's or IO Sets
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ED counts against IO Sets. However, not all individual IOs provide the same bonus. So that Set, Perfect Zinger, provides Range, Taunt Duration, and Recharge. So he's probably not going over the rule because his "rule of 3" is distributed over several IOs. In fact, you can see in the screenshot that he has 93.6% Taunt Duration, 23.5% Range, 39.2% Recharge, none of which are over the ED caps.)
BTW, the rule of three is not really a rule of 3, that's just an easy mnemonic. The real rule is a rule of "look up and understand the formula." This works out to a rule of 3 for SOs, but nothing else. Not TOs, not DOs, and not IOs. (Dunno about Hamios.) So you have to be careful how you interpret it.
EDIT: fixed Perfect Zinger because the answers were right in front of me.
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Yes, that is confusing.|
Originally Posted by Emjack
Ok cool, i understand EXCEPT for one thing, i see you have taunt slots all the same, i thought the rule from ED no more than 3 of same type OR does this not count towards IO's or IO Sets
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The PICTURE shown on the screen is all the same, but the effect is not. In other words, enhancements from the same set all look the same, but they are really different, and only hovering over them will show that. In that example, it looks like he has 5 Perfect Zingers Taunt Set Enhancements. Below that, he shows the Recharge/Accuracy enhancment, but in that window you can see all the others too: Taunt, Taunt/Rech, etc.
In summary, for Common IOs, the picture denotes the enhancement type (yellow reticle for Accuracy, Red Flame for Damage); but for Set IOs, the background color typically indicates type (black for Taunt), but the picture denotes what set it belongs to (open mouth for Perfect Zinger).
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Here's the real rule here:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancement_Diversification
In summary it is:
1. Rule of 95%.
2. Rule of 55%
3. Two others (interrupt and knockback) that no one really cares about.
The first rule applies to most things, and is where the "rule of 3" comes from. Most top level SOs provide 33.3% improvement each. For three, that's 99.9%. Which is over the 95% rule, but just barely, so it's ok.
Those powers are: Accuracy, Confuse, Damage, Defense DeBuff, Endurance Modification, Endurance Reduction, Fear, Fly, Heal, Hold, Immobilize, Intangible, Jump, Recharge, Run, Sleep, Stun, Taunt.
The other rule at 55% is mostly for defense and some debuffs. Those SOs actually provide much lower values, around 20% iirc, and if you add up three of them you get 60% or so, but that's still close enough to 55% that it's fine. Again you can't slot any more than 3 of them without loosing most of the bonus. (You only get about 3% instead of 20%.)
These are: Range, Defense Buff, Resist Damage, To Hit Buff, To Hit Debuff.
You can tell which it is by looking at the values on the SO. 33% = 95% tops, 20% = 55% tops. Usually what I do is remember that Def and Resist are the main odd ones out, and the rest are 95%.
One note about sets vs allowed enhancements -
All enhancements of a set are treated as a single type of enhancement (Taunt for Perfect zinger) as far as "what is allowed").
This means you can slot Def/recharge IOs into passive defense powers, for example, because the game simply reads it as a defense IO and not recharge which you cannot normally slot.
This is why, for example, Dark Servant cannot take any pet sets, as they are all marked (primarily) as damage sets.
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I agree that SOs are perfectly valid, especially as you are getting back into the game and primarily soloing. I recommend all newer players work through the game on DO/SOs only the first time through just to eliminate one more bit of complexity. So, to answer your original question in detail:
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Yes, you need to refresh them periodically. Here is my DO/SO schedule:|
Originally Posted by Emjack
My question is this, when im leveling up when i get my SO's at lvl 22 and level rest way up to level 50 with SO's , how often do i keep upgrading my SO's i have check some stores in the level 20-29 zones and i would see the level 22 SO's then i would see level 27 SO's ect... how often do i keep upgrading my SO's ????
Is there like a rule,upgrade your slots every 5 levels or ect..?? |
12 - Go to the origin specific store in Skyway, Steel Canyon, or Cap au Diable and buy level 15 DOs.
18 - Go back to that same store and refresh your DOs with level 20s. Note that I wait until 18 so that I can "combine" them with the 15s and have a 75% chance to get an extra level (denoted by "20+").
22 - Go to the origin specific store in Talos, Independence Port, or Sharkhead and buy level 25 SOs. You can't combine DOs and SOs, so just replace them at 22.
28 - Go back to that same store and refresh your SOs with level 30s. See the combine note above. Same applies here. I also go ahead and buy all the 30s I will need for leveling until 31 so I don't have to return each level.
33 - Go to the origin specific store in Brickstown*, Founders Falls*, St. Martial; or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 35s; buy future needs through 36.
*The hero side enhancement contacts in these zones require you to complete a mission for them before you can buy from them.
38 - Go to the origin specific store in Brickstown*, Founders Falls*, St. Martial; or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 40s; buy future needs through 41.
43 - Go to Ghost Falcon store in Peregrine Island*, Elite Quartermaster in Grandville, or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 45s; buy future needs through 46.
48 - Go to Ghost Falcon store in Peregrine Island*, Elite Quartermaster in Grandville, or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 50s; buy enhs you'll need for 49 and 50 too.
Also, feel free to combine any dropped enhancements that match slotted ones as you go.
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| I do have another question, say when i hit level 50 i take my SO Build to MIDS, is there a button that i can choose or click that will change all my SO slots out to IO"s ect... or do i need to figure out on my own what should go in my slots that is higher than SO's? |
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ah ok now i understand tyvm|
Originally Posted by Big_King
I agree that SOs are perfectly valid, especially as you are getting back into the game and primarily soloing. I recommend all newer players work through the game on DO/SOs only the first time through just to eliminate one more bit of complexity. So, to answer your original question in detail:
Yes, you need to refresh them periodically. Here is my DO/SO schedule: 12 - Go to the origin specific store in Skyway, Steel Canyon, or Cap au Diable and buy level 15 DOs. 18 - Go back to that same store and refresh your DOs with level 20s. Note that I wait until 18 so that I can "combine" them with the 15s and have a 75% chance to get an extra level (denoted by "20+"). 22 - Go to the origin specific store in Talos, Independence Port, or Sharkhead and buy level 25 SOs. You can't combine DOs and SOs, so just replace them at 22. 28 - Go back to that same store and refresh your SOs with level 30s. See the combine note above. Same applies here. I also go ahead and buy all the 30s I will need for leveling until 31 so I don't have to return each level. 33 - Go to the origin specific store in Brickstown*, Founders Falls*, St. Martial; or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 35s; buy future needs through 36. *The hero side enhancement contacts in these zones require you to complete a mission for them before you can buy from them. 38 - Go to the origin specific store in Brickstown*, Founders Falls*, St. Martial; or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 40s; buy future needs through 41. 43 - Go to Ghost Falcon store in Peregrine Island*, Elite Quartermaster in Grandville, or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 45s; buy future needs through 46. 48 - Go to Ghost Falcon store in Peregrine Island*, Elite Quartermaster in Grandville, or the vendor in Cimerora, Midnight Club, or Rikti War Zone. Refresh with 50s; buy enhs you'll need for 49 and 50 too. Also, feel free to combine any dropped enhancements that match slotted ones as you go. No, no button; but as others have noted; you can simplly replace your SOs with the analogous form of Common IO and get (most of the time) slightly better performance that doesn't have to be refreshed. |
TYVM Everyone, you all breaking down the stuff im having hard time understanding is now making sense, this si awesome, thank you sooo much
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If you look at the set piece (the second picture,) you'll notice it has six different pieces listed:|
Originally Posted by Emjack
Ok cool, i understand EXCEPT for one thing, i see you have taunt slots all the same, i thought the rule from ED no more than 3 of same type OR does this not count towards IO's or IO Sets
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Taunt
Tuant/Recharge
Taunt/Recharge/Range
Recharge/Accuracy
Taunt/Range
Chance for Psionic Damage (a "proc," something you'll run across later.)
They all look the same when slotted, yes, as they're all part of the same set, BUT if I hover over one of the slotted enhancements, you'd see some in the set with their name in blue, others in grey:
This is hovering over one of the slotted enhancements. You can see each highlighted one in the list is different (taunt/recharge, vs taunt, for instance,) and one (Recharge/Accuracy) is greyed out - that one's not slotted. (Currently sitting in my enhancement tray.) Similarly, the set bonuses at the bottom has the last one greyed out since I don't have six pieces of the set in.
One other thing with sets - you can only have one of a specific IO from a specific set in. So, while I have the Taunt IO from Perfect Zinger slotted, I can't put another Taunt IO from Perfect Zinger in there. I can put in a different Perfect Zinger piece such as Taunt/Recharge, or I can put in Taunt from another set (or an SO/common IO.)
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The easiest way to go about IOs is to use the common ones. |
Originally Posted by Emjack
this is no excuse but i have brain damage and it is causing me NOT to comprehend of understanding IO's
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They are just like SOs, but you will never outlevel them.
At level 30 they are better than SOs because the enhancement is comparable, and you don't ever have to replace them unless you want to.
Slotting Set IOs for bonuses can come later, or not at all if you like, but I do recommend slotting the common IOs instead of SOs at around level 27.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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k cool tyvm |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The easiest way to go about IOs is to use the common ones.
They are just like SOs, but you will never outlevel them. At level 30 they are better than SOs because the enhancement is comparable, and you don't ever have to replace them unless you want to. Slotting Set IOs for bonuses can come later, or not at all if you like, but I do recommend slotting the common IOs instead of SOs at around level 27. |
I wanted to ask for one more help please, i found this Mastermind Bots/Time Build but i need to have it redone into SO's slotting, i knows everyone here been helping me out a lot and i'm beginning to understand the common Io's but still haven't figured out how to switch a IO build to a SO build I posted this in MM site but since i been getting a lot f help here i thought i post the build here too and see if i can get the build into an SO build, tyvm if anyone can do this here is the build
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...B4FF02045AF6D9
I'm not spectacular with time right now (so many alts...)
For mastermind primaries, generally concentrating on pets:
For the tier 1 and tier 2 pets (battle drones and protector bots for robotics,) I'll generally be sure to slot two accuracy - simply because they'll need it. As you get more of a specific tier (Tier 1 - 1 pet at 1, 2nd at 6, 3rd at 18) they'll drop a level relative to you, so more help hitting = good.) Tier 1, for me, will usually get 3 damage and "a something." (Masterminds on SOs, I find, are rarely out of slots.) Tier 2 - your protector bots - you may want to sacrifice a slot of damage for defense and endurance (so acc/acc/dam/dam/end/def) as they'll be bubbling you and the other bots and can actually run *out* of endurance. At least, that was the case historically - I don't *think* they got the AOE bubble upgrade players did.
They've slotted an IO for knockback protection. If you're sticking with SOs/common IOs and want KB protection, you'll likely be in the Leaping pool getting Acrobatics. Save slots for End reduction there.
They've skipped Repair. I tend to take it - it doesn't really *need* slotting, but if you find your tier 2 or tier 3 (Assault Bot) suddenly dangerously low on health, it's a one-shot, fairly quick repair to full health. Some people like it, some skip it.
The leadership pool is generally good regardless - you'll have bubbles to stack with maneuvers, tactics will help your bots hit, etc.
Equip and Upgrade generally don't need slotting - get the bots summoned and in a group, hit them, they'll upgrade everyone. Recharge should be fine, no extra slots needed.
Mastermind attacks are generally... unimpressive, other than Demon -res on the whip attacks (also the only whips in game for players) and the -fly that beasts need (since they're all ground based melee - also gives a charge of... rgh, forget what the mechanic is.) Take one if you're bored, but not if it means skipping something else useful.
I'll let someone who's focused on Time give ideas there.
Ok that al makes sense to me, now i have a better understanding i i can work my way thru on my own build, thank you sooo much:0
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Mastermind attacks are generally... unimpressive, other than Demon -res on the whip attacks (also the only whips in game for players) and the -fly that beasts need (since they're all ground based melee - also gives a charge of... rgh, forget what the mechanic is.) Take one if you're bored, but not if it means skipping something else useful.
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For early levels though, take the attacks, at least two, or three for beasts and maybe demons. Before you have all your pets, those attacks do a significant percent of your damage, and should not be avoided. Also, with only a few pets to command, you might be pretty bored unless you have a few attacks to play with.
Note that /Time is a little busy, but not too bad. I'd take the first two attacks and see if you'd like to add more to your attack chain.
Personal opinion: Repair is crappy, and /Time has a much better heal. Skip Repair, use the one in /Time.
I can't give much advice on slotting /Time. My Beasts/Time Mastermind is only level 18, and appears to be skipping Enhancements until SOs are available. I put a fair amount of slots into Temporal Mending (the heal), so look to slot that up early. I skipped Temporal Selection, probably judging that until I got better pets it wouldn't be worth it.
I'm also taking all the powers in Beasts/, mostly because they're a lot of fun. For Robotics/, I'd skip Photon Grenade and Repair, and either take Temporal Selection, or dip into the Leadership pool. I didn't take a movement power, you'll probably have to add one.
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aye i was thinking same thing on some attacks early on, tyvm
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
For early levels though, take the attacks, at least two, or three for beasts and maybe demons. Before you have all your pets, those attacks do a significant percent of your damage, and should not be avoided. Also, with only a few pets to command, you might be pretty bored unless you have a few attacks to play with.
Note that /Time is a little busy, but not too bad. I'd take the first two attacks and see if you'd like to add more to your attack chain. Personal opinion: Repair is crappy, and /Time has a much better heal. Skip Repair, use the one in /Time. |
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ok cool, tvm
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
I can't give much advice on slotting /Time. My Beasts/Time Mastermind is only level 18, and appears to be skipping Enhancements until SOs are available. I put a fair amount of slots into Temporal Mending (the heal), so look to slot that up early. I skipped Temporal Selection, probably judging that until I got better pets it wouldn't be worth it.
I'm also taking all the powers in Beasts/, mostly because they're a lot of fun. For Robotics/, I'd skip Photon Grenade and Repair, and either take Temporal Selection, or dip into the Leadership pool. I didn't take a movement power, you'll probably have to add one. |
And btw your help is very grateful, just as there's above you on this post.
TYVM
For this first character that you're upgrading to Common/Generic IOs, buy freely. Once you get a better feel for things, you can be more frugal. Like for a new character, you can lay down bids for items ahead of when you'll need them. You'll have the time as you level up to wait for your bids to be picked up. Plus you can buy extras to complete your Memorizing badges and then be able to craft at a discount for resale to earn an income.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.