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Well the pretty obvious one is stronger buffs and debuffs. For example Defenders get 12.5% Defense form Farsight compared to 9.375% for Corruptors. This makes it a lot easier to softcap a Defender than a Corruptor (especially when you factor in stronger Maneuvers, Combat Jumping and possibly Weave). This is even more noticeable when you stack an Epic shield since Defenders get noticeably more resistance from them than Corruptors (30% versus 22.5% for Temp Invulnerability).|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Rolled it and teamed a bit for half an hour last night. Got to just shy of level 5. One thing did cross my mind though, other than the obvious "the focus is on support rather than blasts" aspects of defender game play, is there anything that would make this particular combo more effective on a defender than the reverse combo for a corruptor? I tend to play in small teams (2-4) and solo.
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Similarly Defenders get 30% resistance debuff from Slowed Response and 20% from their sonic attacks compared to 22.5% and 15% for Corruptors.
At the moment, in my opinion there isn't a huge amount to choose between the two ATs, it's kind of like the differences between Scrappers and Brutes. Defenders are a little better at debuffing and a little tougher while Corruptors are a little bit shootier.
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Well, there's Vigilance. Soloing, you'll (eventually, once you're 20+) get a 30% damage bonus. You'll still get some on small teams (20% on duos and 10% on 3-player teams). That should offset at least some of the offensive advantage Scourge gives Corruptors and make the comparison much closer than one might think.|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Rolled it and teamed a bit for half an hour last night. Got to just shy of level 5. One thing did cross my mind though, other than the obvious "the focus is on support rather than blasts" aspects of defender game play, is there anything that would make this particular combo more effective on a defender than the reverse combo for a corruptor? I tend to play in small teams (2-4) and solo.
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The Defender AT mod for ranged damage is .65. The Corruptor AT mod for ranged damage is only 10 percentage points higher -- .75. If I understand it right, that means that with any Vigilance bonus after level 20 (three or fewer on the team), your damage will be at least equal to, or better than, a Corruptor's damage excluding Scourge.
I'm not sure how to calculate Scourge damage, but it's worth noting that Scourge is least effective against low-hit-point foe like minions (because by the time they're at half life so that Scourge might kick in, a lot of doubled damage will be wasted in overkill).
So normally I'd say Corruptors would be better for AV fights, where Scourge can take effect over the long slow decline of AV hit points and really boost the damage output. But the complication here is Sonic -- Defenders will get better Sonic debuffs, helping not only their own damage but the team's.
So if you're soloing AVs, a Corruptor is generally better, but in the specific case of Sonic Blast, the Defender debuff advantage will narrow that difference a lot. If you're teaming to take them out (a much more typical situation), the Sonic Blast Defender's debuff contribution will probably (depending on your teammates' damage output) equal or exceed that of a Corruptor's Scourge (and Corruptor's lower debuff contribution).
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This isn't quite true since damage bonuses work off of Base damage and not enhanced damage. The way it works is that assuming 95% damage enhancement in your attacks and no other damage buffs a solo Defender and Corruptor will do the same damage which is why the devs selected 30% for the solo Vigilance buff..|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
The Defender AT mod for ranged damage is .65. The Corruptor AT mod for ranged damage is only 10 percentage points higher -- .75. If I understand it right, that means that with any Vigilance bonus after level 20 (three or fewer on the team), your damage will be at least equal to, or better than, a Corruptor's damage excluding Scourge.
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0.65 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.3) = 1.4625
0.75 * (1 + 0.95) = 1.4625
If I recall correctly several people did an analysis on Scourge and concluded that in general it's approximately equivalent to a 20%-25% damage buff.
Awesome info guys, thank you. I was completely unaware of the damage bonuses granted for Vigilance and whilst I figured as buff / debuff is the primary role for a defender, it would make sense that the debuff in sonic would be sufficiently more effective, I honestly didn't realise it'd be as much as that!
Think I'm going to enjoy this toon!
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I fell in love with rad/rad early on. One of my first ten characters, she was the first defender I had that could really not only survive, but kick some butt as well, I soloed her mostly with no problem. After discovering defenders through her, I was then able to go on and play other defenders, including those that had stymied me before (kin and storm, I'm looking at you), more easily.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Am I too late to throw in a vote for Rad/Rad? Hard for you to get hit, hard to miss once you hit, you get almost as much love as a kin on teams, and you even get a bit of control for good measure too. Mine was my first alt to break 20 and first to hit 50 and it'll only get better once the crashless nukes and perma-snipe kick in.
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I agree that after getting the changes with crashless nukes and perma-snipe, she'll be worth dusting off once again, I can't wait.
Such a huge fan of traps/dark. Being able to trap my enemies on top of a proc'd out 'trops patch is glorious. I tank.
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Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me
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The other thing is the sonic is bad with scourge in general|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Rolled it and teamed a bit for half an hour last night. Got to just shy of level 5. One thing did cross my mind though, other than the obvious "the focus is on support rather than blasts" aspects of defender game play, is there anything that would make this particular combo more effective on a defender than the reverse combo for a corruptor? I tend to play in small teams (2-4) and solo.
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scourge means you can do extra damage on foes that are half dead
but sonic gives a -res debuff which you want to use on foes that are fresh so that the rest of the damage gets the -res debuff
If you are using sonic in a team to pick off the half dead you are wasting its benefit.
Not to derail, but...
I, too, have had a hard time loving defendering. My fire/storm corruptor is so much more fun than my storm/ice defender. I frequently wish I'd rolled my kin/ice defender as a corruptor for the higher dmg cap. And so on.
Then I rerolled my sonic/therm corruptor as a defender when therm was proliferated to defenders. My rather insignificant heals became much more meaningful. The boost to my resist shields was significant, and more -resist from my blast set... it all just felt right. I finally found Love as a Defender.
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I disagree.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
The other thing is the sonic is bad with scourge in general
scourge means you can do extra damage on foes that are half dead but sonic gives a -res debuff which you want to use on foes that are fresh so that the rest of the damage gets the -res debuff If you are using sonic in a team to pick off the half dead you are wasting its benefit. |
Against a hard target, by the time Scourge kicks in the target is heavily Res-debuffed to further amplify the extra damage from Scourge.
I'd say the most efficient use of Sonic Blast on a team is to target the Boss in a spawn and cycle Howl, then single targets. The surrounding minions get debuffed by Howl, and the Boss gets the brunt of your debuffs.
Scourge fits very nicely with this.
However, Defenders still debuff better, and I'd advise anyone picking Sonic Blast to go Defender over Corrupter.
Yep i can echo that sentiment having recently rolled a traps/sonic def... you can see my exploits thus far in another Def thread, Journal of a Traps/Sonic..... I was and am very happy to watch the sonic-res kick in and groups, tho starts off slow, just melt away..... and traps just adds another element of fun to it... 5 bubbles to get Trip Mine, which will hopefully be later tonight..... then i think it will get insanely fun....
So, focus on the Sonic attacks and you shall see the true benefit it has...