Will the assault sets without snipes be rebalanced?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-16 09:40 in Dominators
I would assume that like the Blast sets they will get rebalanced if they need it. Also something to keep in mind is that at the moment Dominators are the AT with the least access to FastSnipe so the power differential may not be that great.
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I hope they pick a different trigger for the FastSnipe. The more I think about it and consider how it affects different ATs, this looks like a big win for Corruptors and Defenders with much less benefit to most Blasters and others with Snipe powers.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I would assume that like the Blast sets they will get rebalanced if they need it. Also something to keep in mind is that at the moment Dominators are the AT with the least access to FastSnipe so the power differential may not be that great.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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All I know is dominant or snipes hit like a ton of bricks...|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I hope they pick a different trigger for the FastSnipe. The more I think about it and consider how it affects different ATs, this looks like a big win for Corruptors and Defenders with much less benefit to most Blasters and others with Snipe powers.
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Icy Earth(y) and Thorny already are marginal performers, after insta snipe is freely available, I don't think anyone would question that these sets become the bottom f the barrel.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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Honestly, as someone who plays Defenders, Corruptors and doesn't play Blasters*... even I agree. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I hope they pick a different trigger for the FastSnipe. The more I think about it and consider how it affects different ATs, this looks like a big win for Corruptors and Defenders with much less benefit to most Blasters and others with Snipe powers.
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It's considerably easier (laughably easy) to hit the tohit requirement with the support ATs, so while sure Device, Energy (edit:and Dark**) Manipulation Blasters may be able to hit perma-snipe, ALL Defenders and Corruptors can.
*Honestly I might try them again post i24, depending on how well the sustainability powers work.
**Forgot about Soul Drain.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Agreed. One option would be ot scrap the idea and just convert the snipes to standard attacks. Now if that won't fly then my suggestion is to eliminate the 22% ToHit requirement and just add a FastSnipe Trigger to certain powers, specifically:|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I hope they pick a different trigger for the FastSnipe. The more I think about it and consider how it affects different ATs, this looks like a big win for Corruptors and Defenders with much less benefit to most Blasters and others with Snipe powers.
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Aim
Build Up
Targeting Drone
Power Boost
Soul Drain
Power Build Up
Embrace of Fire
All the other Set-Specific Build Up/Aim/Power Boost style powers
That way Blaster's get the best FastSnipe time out of the box since they generally have a FastSnipe powers in both their primary and secondary and Devices and Energy Manipulation become the only powersets with PermaFastSnipe (except for AR/Energy). Defenders, Corruptors and Dominators would have one FastSnipe trigger in their attack set (except for Assault Rifle, see below) and would have the option to take a second one in their Epic Pool (which generally has worse uptime than the Blaster powers).
Now there is an issue with this system which is that Assault Rifle gets left in the cold. I'm not really sure how to handle that. AR/Dev would obviously be fine and I think AR/Energy would be ok but for other Blasters and especially for Defenders and Corruptors AR gets left in the cold. I'm not really sure how to deal with that to be honest. The obvious solution is to add an AR-specific FastSnipe trigger somewhere, the question is where?
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Actually... looking at it.... I don't think that's true.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Also something to keep in mind is that at the moment Dominators are the AT with the least access to FastSnipe so the power differential may not be that great.
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All Dominators can hit perma-snipe using Kismet 6%, ED capped tactics and Link Minds plus the recharge to perma-Link Minds. (Yes that does limit you to the Psi APP, but considering how hard Dom snipes hit, it may well be worth it).
That's better than Blasters can do.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Yes, with a high-recharge IO build and a specific APP Dominators can hit it but that's not the entirety of the game. Blasters get access to Aim & Build Up quite early and even with SOs can alternate them for pretty good FastSnipe up time. Prior to APPs most Dominators have to use a Power Boosted Tactics to hit it without needing inspirations.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
All Dominators can hit perma-snipe using Kismet 6%, ED capped tactics and Link Minds plus the recharge to perma-Link Minds. (Yes that does limit you to the Psi APP, but considering how hard Dom snipes hit, it may well be worth it).
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So in terms of overall difficulty I'd rate the ATs as:
Defenders (Tactics + Kismet, Aim in their secondaries)
Corruptors (Tactics + Kismet, Aim in their primaries, need more slotting than Defenders)
Blasters (Aim and Build Up)
Dominators (mostly have to use Power Boost and Tactics, some exceptions)
Scrappers/Stalkers (can hit it with Build Up but don't actually get snipes until APPs anyway)
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True enough.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Yes, with a high-recharge IO build and a specific APP Dominators can hit it but that's not the entirety of the game. Blasters get access to Aim & Build Up quite early and even with SOs can alternate them for pretty good FastSnipe up time. Prior to APPs most Dominators have to use a Power Boosted Tactics to hit it without needing inspirations.
So in terms of overall difficulty I'd rate the ATs as: Defenders (Tactics + Kismet, Aim in their secondaries) Corruptors (Tactics + Kismet, Aim in their secondaries, need more slotting than Defenders) Blasters (Aim and Build Up) Dominators (mostly have to use Power Boost and Tactics, some exceptions) Scrappers/Stalkers (can hit it with Build Up but don't actually get snipes until APPs anyway) |
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Completely unrelated to the topic, but I just LOVE how the forums constantly tell me a thread that I've posted in THREE TIMES is "new" and that I haven't read any of the posts in it.... where I've posted. Three times. So annoying. 
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Not giving up my Scorpion Shield for anything.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Actually... looking at it.... I don't think that's true.
All Dominators can hit perma-snipe using Kismet 6%, ED capped tactics and Link Minds plus the recharge to perma-Link Minds. (Yes that does limit you to the Psi APP, but considering how hard Dom snipes hit, it may well be worth it). That's better than Blasters can do. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
A caveat to anyone planning on using Link Minds to recharge the fast snipe cut off, Link Minds is not boosted by Power Boost. Is this the price we pay for 1.7% Psi Resistance that can't be enhanced?
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Yeah. That pathetically tiny resistance really isn't worth anything, but it's probably included just so that half the sets can Power Boost it, when the other half can't.|
Originally Posted by ketch
A caveat to anyone planning on using Link Minds to recharge the fast snipe cut off, Link Minds is not boosted by Power Boost. Is this the price we pay for 1.7% Psi Resistance that can't be enhanced?
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It really could be increased to a more reasonable (and enhanceable) number.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Is it too cynical of me to assume that the devs forgot dominators get snipes? And then when someone reminded them, they forgot that not all dominators get snipes?
If they link it to Domination (I saw that being mentioned somewhere, not sure where), it seems reasonable, though it makes permadom even more of a thing.
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Yeah, this is why I'd rather not see it linked to Domination. Linking it to Power Boost and Build Up would IMHO be a better option since at least all Doms with snipes get either one of those powers or a set-specific variant of it.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
If they link it to Domination (I saw that being mentioned somewhere, not sure where), it seems reasonable, though it makes permadom even more of a thing.
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I guess. This can be seen as a way to incentivize powers that normally wouldn't be taken, but those powers are just as likely to be taken.
I dunno. It seems to me this is a fine opportunity to broaden options, and all that's happening is narrowing.
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If fast snipe is available and easy to achieve on doms without sacrifices, what about the Dom sets without snipes?|
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
I guess. This can be seen as a way to incentivize powers that normally wouldn't be taken, but those powers are just as likely to be taken.
I dunno. It seems to me this is a fine opportunity to broaden options, and all that's happening is narrowing. |
The devs have stated they are going to rebalance the blast sets so snipe less sets remain competative... Nothing has been hinted about dominators.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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Because I don't think even the devs know how this will affect intra-AT balance. If people still don't take Tactics, then Doms aren't likely going to have a perma source of FastSnipe, so there would be little change in effectiveness. If there is little change in effectiveness, then there's no need for a rebalancing.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
If fast snipe is available and easy to achieve on doms without sacrifices, what about the Dom sets without snipes?
The devs have stated they are going to rebalance the blast sets so snipe less sets remain competative... Nothing has been hinted about dominators. |
However, if there are some more "cultural" changes because of this, and you start seeing Tactics more often to get the FastSnipe on teams at least, then it may be a balancing point that will need to be addressed.
So I think it's smart of the Devs not to say anything, because if they do say that Doms may get looked at, people will come back a year from now asking why Doms weren't, even if the situation never arose that would have required a look.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Same here.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Not giving up my Scorpion Shield for anything.
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The devs have stated they will be rebalancing the non snipe blast sets to remain competative with the rest getting buffed in issue 24 via the insta snipe Armageddon.
The insta snipe changes will be proliferated out to all snipes in the game.
Will the devs also look at earth assault, icy assault and thorny assault to keep the in line in terms of performance? Or will it be the usual, economies of scale issue where dominators are of lower priority?
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!