I read it does not stack with itself..and I 'think' the stacks dont refresh..so you cant keep chaining them. Or Something. BUt I totally might have that backwards.
Put one in Freezing rain for sure. Another in Whirlpool too.
Maybe one in aqua too..for the times you dont want to be spamming aoes.
Achilles' Heel is generally not worth using for AoE powers (a simple damage proc is generally better). Dehydrate already has acc/dam/end/rech/heal fighting for its slots, so using one for the proc is not preferable.
In short, I say Aqua Bolt.
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Can you explain why? It seems to me that an AoE, especially a rain, is a great place for an Achilles Heel, especially on a defender. Lots of opportunity for it to go off. But I may be missing something.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Achilles' Heel is generally not worth using for AoE powers (a simple damage proc is generally better).
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Well, compared to a normal damage proc, the Achilles proc will go off exactly as often (20% chance, and in a Rain power it gets a chance to go off every 10 seconds). So really, we can just compare the effect of the Achilles proc to the ~72 damage you'd get from Positron's Blast (or whatever else).
So, what conditions have to be true for Achilles' Heel to be worth more than 72 damage? It increases the damage the target takes by 20%, or one-fifth, for 10 seconds. So you need to do >360 damage, before counting the debuff, during those ten seconds for the proc to add >72 damage. A level 50 minion only has 431 max health, so against minions you will roughly break even at best (360+72 is all the health a minion has), and if the minion survives past the end of the debuff, or if the minion is not at full health when the debuff is applied, you're already behind.
Higher-ranking foes have enough health for the Achilles proc to break even or do better than the damage proc, but not by much on Lieutenants (although this depends somewhat on circumstances; if you/your team deal high enough damage to consistently wipe out all the Lieutenants in <10s from full health, Achilles does start to look pretty good), it's really mostly on Bosses and above that Achilles shines. And you can get a lot more opportunities to proc against bosses by putting the proc in a fast single-target attack than an AoE power that generally has a much longer recharge.
Edit: I suppose "not worth using" is an exaggeration, but it's not nearly as amazing for most AoE uses as it is for single-target.
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No, and here's why.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Fenix
Also, does the proc stack with itself?
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The Debuff in this case is "cast" using the Grant Power mechanic. This means that it IS NOT YOU who is casting the debuff on the affected $Target(s) ... it is the affected $Target(s) casting it ON THEMSELVES. This is important because the debuff falls under the heading of Does not stack from same caster as far as its effects.
This means that when you have every attack power of YOURS slotted with this debuff ... and every PC on your team has every attack power of THEIRS slotted with this debuff ... (impossible, I know, but work with me here, this is an example) ... then despite the fact that multiple powers on multiple players are Proccing this debuff all over the place, each $Target can only be affected by ONE DEBUFF at a time ... because each $Target is casting the debuff ON THEMSELF ... rather than it being each *power* on each *player* casting the debuff on the affected $Target(s) (which *would* permit stacking of the debuff).
Does that make sense? It's basically "throttled" by the artifice of the Grant Power mechanic such that the debuff cannot be stacked with itself (and thus prevents runaway cascade failure of Resistances via stacked debuffing).
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
On my Storm, I have it in freezing rain with two recharges. On my PB, each form has one... the rest, in varies single attacks or aoe.
Yours, depending on the number of slots free but I might go with Aqua Bolt to spam bosses and such. With freezing rain and being a water, I would think you only need the proc on the tougher opponents.
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I'm assuming you're talking about in solo play; in teamed play the benefits increase as the team/league size does.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Well, compared to a normal damage proc, the Achilles proc will go off exactly as often (20% chance, and in a Rain power it gets a chance to go off every 10 seconds). So really, we can just compare the effect of the Achilles proc to the ~72 damage you'd get from Positron's Blast (or whatever else).
So, what conditions have to be true for Achilles' Heel to be worth more than 72 damage? It increases the damage the target takes by 20%, or one-fifth, for 10 seconds. So you need to do >360 damage, before counting the debuff, during those ten seconds for the proc to add >72 damage. A level 50 minion only has 431 max health, so against minions you will roughly break even at best (360+72 is all the health a minion has), and if the minion survives past the end of the debuff, or if the minion is not at full health when the debuff is applied, you're already behind. Higher-ranking foes have enough health for the Achilles proc to break even or do better than the damage proc, but not by much on Lieutenants (although this depends somewhat on circumstances; if you/your team deal high enough damage to consistently wipe out all the Lieutenants in <10s from full health, Achilles does start to look pretty good), it's really mostly on Bosses and above that Achilles shines. And you can get a lot more opportunities to proc against bosses by putting the proc in a fast single-target attack than an AoE power that generally has a much longer recharge. Edit: I suppose "not worth using" is an exaggeration, but it's not nearly as amazing for most AoE uses as it is for single-target. |
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You want it in aqua bolt. The proc has the most effect against single hard targets, so it makes sense to put the proc in the power that you will be using most often against that type of enemy.
Thanks for all the info, folks. I'll probably put it in Aqua Bolt for now - soloing bosses is where I need the most help anyway.
I am wondering, though, how it may be affected by the upcoming "All procs become proc-per-minute" changes.
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The math is the same for solo and group play; the break-even point is still 360 damage taken during the proc's duration. A team does more damage than a single player, so they are more likely to exceed that threshold, but on the other hand a team is also pretty likely to have somebody else using the proc as well, which makes yours less useful since they don't stack.
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
I'm assuming you're talking about in solo play; in teamed play the benefits increase as the team/league size does.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Achilles...istance_Debuff
I'm looking to put an Achilles Heel: Chance for -Resist proc in my Storm/Water build. So far, I see five powers that can take it:
* Storm: Freezing Rain (AoE)
* Water: Whirlpool (AoE, usually used right after FR)
* Water: Aqua Bolt (ST)
* Water: Dehydrate (ST)
* Water: Steam Spray (Cone)
So, which of this powers would you slot the -Res proc in? More than one? All of them?
Also, does the proc stack with itself?
This is a mixed teaming/solo build.