Human form WS - iTrial viability


AIB

 

Posted

This is definitely an AT forum I thought I'd never be posting in! I play pretty much redside only so have skipped over Kheldians but I like the idea of playing a Nictus (in concept) and figure I can betray to red once I hit 20. I also like the idea of a ranged character with great defenses so found my way here.

That said, how would a human form shade hold up in iTrials? I've read the guides here and was drawn to the idea of being able to have high resists and use things like inky aspect to help solo doors and bunkers. The problem is that I hate nova form with a passion - graphically and for the fact that I can't even use pool-based defenses. I could potentially take dwarf to get another mire, but is the overall idea viable? My iTrial experience so far comes from an ill/rad controller and while I love debuffs and being able to solo all of the DA arcs as a fresh 50 without NPC help due to the savage utility of perma PA, I was looking for a character with a bit more oomph. I thought about a crab, but pets seem to get annihilated in iTrials (except PA obviously) so that and my like of the Nictus concept made me come here.

As stated, the goal of this character would be almost entirely end game iTrial or SF focused. Could I take on the crates, bunkers, etc. as a human shade (preferably without shadow cloak as I like seeing costumes) or am I tossing away so much of the AT that I'd be better off Footstomping my way to victory?


 

Posted

You'd do pretty well, with a decent build and clarion. I'd keep shadow cloak myself, as the defense will help, but it isn't strictly neccessary.


 

Posted

I have a newly redone WS at the S/L def softcap (45%; which yes I know it's not the itrial softcap but... ). Eclipse and Hasten are perma (or very close to it; need the newest Kheldian ATOs to be 'done' with this build/toon).


I got the build from another person on Liberty...I'll see if he's good with me sharing it or not. It is an expensive build but...*shrugs*


I like the toon (always did) and he survives easily enough. Only 'issue' I have is endurance issues when in certain iTrials and there's only 1 mob (the AV) that we're fighting...just to have remember to turn off a few of the toggles that he has on sometimes


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Posted

I go back and forth. In all of the trials, there are reasons to use various forms. Let's examine, for instance, the BAF trial (which you'll be doing a lot, believe me):

Human: Single target DPS, you kill the AVs in this form.
Nova: AOE DPS, you burn down the prisoners in this form and you fight off the reinforcements using this form's attacks (if necessary, typically not an issue)
Dwarf: You pull and (if necessary) tank the AVs in this form, not so much for survival as for threat. When doing this, I tend to toggle back to human form to fire heals or long-term buffs, then shift back into Dwarf for threat.

That's just suggestions based on one Trial, and of course your role will depend largely on the needs of your League. I've tanked more often at times (did Avatar of the Hamidon once, that was nuts) and I've also done a lot of Nova doing something like the Magisterium startup. Needs must as the devil drives.


 

Posted

Thanks all, Dechs and Stone, I have read both of your guides (as well as AIB's).

Follow-up question - is perma-Eclipse still the way to go for iTrials? I'd assume so, but is it still worth getting the various shields? I ask because there are plenty of situations where there aren't 5+ things in range to hit with Eclipse and such. In those case (fighting just AVs) is it worth it to run shields and such to bring up resists or just truck along with a one target Eclipse?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordheim View Post
Follow-up question - is perma-Eclipse still the way to go for iTrials? I'd assume so, but is it still worth getting the various shields? I ask because there are plenty of situations where there aren't 5+ things in range to hit with Eclipse and such. In those case (fighting just AVs) is it worth it to run shields and such to bring up resists or just truck along with a one target Eclipse?
I would say yes, for a couple reasons.

You can get the SL resist shield and use it--I find it useful from time to time--but the power choices you have to forfeit because of getting the others makes it not worth it, to me. But let's say you do pick them anyway. What good will they do on those AV only fights? I can think of a few that won't have nearby adds (and some of them that do), but the one's that don't? They're all designed in such a way that even if you did have the shields, they wouldn't stop you from getting one/two-shotted. Plus, you'll still suffer the problem of having a lack of bodies to heal off of. And really, with all the people on a league--if you're the one getting the aggro, something is going wrong.

I take my human-form out on trials occasionally, and I never find myself wishing I took the extra shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
I have a newly redone WS at the S/L def softcap (45%; which yes I know it's not the itrial softcap but... ). Eclipse and Hasten are perma (or very close to it; need the newest Kheldian ATOs to be 'done' with this build/toon).


I got the build from another person on Liberty...I'll see if he's good with me sharing it or not. It is an expensive build but...*shrugs*


I like the toon (always did) and he survives easily enough. Only 'issue' I have is endurance issues when in certain iTrials and there's only 1 mob (the AV) that we're fighting...just to have remember to turn off a few of the toggles that he has on sometimes
Let me guess, you take dwarf as a set mule for kinetic combats? I had a similar build. Didn't find the risk of detoggling constantly worth it, but it was pretty survivable.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon View Post
And really, with all the people on a league--if you're the one getting the aggro, something is going wrong.
Unless you're working REALLY hard for it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
Unless you're working REALLY hard for it.
Haha, this is true!


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordheim View Post
Thanks all, Dechs and Stone, I have read both of your guides (as well as AIB's).
Oh, I have a guide?

Has someone assembled my scattered bits of poetry and prose into one volume? (And if they have, does it include a story about a little bird that forgot to fly south for winter? (Kheld Friday reference...http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...267757&page=18))

At anyrate, I suspect you are referring to AlienOne's guide...

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=280670


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIB View Post
Oh, I have a guide?
Wait.. You haven't read AIB's guide yet? Freaking nub.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIB View Post
Oh, I have a guide?

Has someone assembled my scattered bits of poetry and prose into one volume? (And if they have, does it include a story about a little bird that forgot to fly south for winter? (Kheld Friday reference...http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...267757&page=18))

At anyrate, I suspect you are referring to AlienOne's guide...

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=280670
You are totally correct! Though I have read a bunch of your posts in this section and found them helpful...so that's almost guide-like!

In other news, I've gotten my shade into the 20s and respecced after getting dwarf. I find that I can pretty handily swap to dwarf when i need to tank something I've pulled agro on or just heal myself from taking random damage. Since I use it with some regularity, I've slotted some dwarf attacks (they are already muling kinetics) but I have also slotted my human attacks (in lieu of defensive powers). I find, however, that i just feel like i don't do much damage. I love orbiting death, but the long animation means I dont generally put it back up if I've had to swap to dwarf mid fight. Is feeling damage-weak at these levels normal? Hopefully it feels better at 50? I am really loving the look of the warshade attacks and such so sticking with it, I just kind of feel bad for the groups that get stuck with me so far :P


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordheim View Post
In other news, I've gotten my shade into the 20s and respecced after getting dwarf. I find that I can pretty handily swap to dwarf when i need to tank something I've pulled agro on or just heal myself from taking random damage. Since I use it with some regularity, I've slotted some dwarf attacks (they are already muling kinetics) but I have also slotted my human attacks (in lieu of defensive powers). I find, however, that i just feel like i don't do much damage. I love orbiting death, but the long animation means I dont generally put it back up if I've had to swap to dwarf mid fight. Is feeling damage-weak at these levels normal? Hopefully it feels better at 50? I am really loving the look of the warshade attacks and such so sticking with it, I just kind of feel bad for the groups that get stuck with me so far :P
Yeah, pre-Extracted Essences and corpse nuke, it can be somehwat slow. Dark Detonation also helps with AoE, it just depends on how soon you take certain powers. It gets much better, just give it time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon View Post
I would say yes, for a couple reasons.

You can get the SL resist shield and use it--I find it useful from time to time--but the power choices you have to forfeit because of getting the others makes it not worth it, to me. But let's say you do pick them anyway. What good will they do on those AV only fights? I can think of a few that won't have nearby adds (and some of them that do), but the one's that don't? They're all designed in such a way that even if you did have the shields, they wouldn't stop you from getting one/two-shotted. Plus, you'll still suffer the problem of having a lack of bodies to heal off of. And really, with all the people on a league--if you're the one getting the aggro, something is going wrong.

I take my human-form out on trials occasionally, and I never find myself wishing I took the extra shields.
Agreed. I only have the S/L shield and actually found I don't use Ecplise that much (with all the buffs/etc, I'm at dmg resist cap anyways...).

Quote:
Let me guess, you take dwarf as a set mule for kinetic combats? I had a similar build. Didn't find the risk of detoggling constantly worth it, but it was pretty survivable.
Yep. T3/T4 Clarion fixes the mez issue (only have t3 on him atm but it's perma so...not a huge rush to get t4).


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Posted

I don't mean to steal EI's thunder but the build he mentioned earlier is this one:

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It's the build I currently use and the build that has lead my WS to replace my DA brute as my main. The spare slot in Dark Detonation is for the KB->KD unique and the open slots in orbiting death are for the new ATOs (currently three-slotted with Erads while I wait) and the generic IOs in unchain will also be replaced with the new ATOs, with only one of the sets of three being catalyzed (unless the catalyzed recharge value is something other than 10%). It's not perfect but I've found it to be extremely survivable and competitive DPS-wise in both itrials and casual +4x8 missions, solo and in groups.

This build is pretty heavily customized to my tastes and playstyle but it plays well at 50 and exemps a lot better than I thought it would.


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