With the snipe changes on test, do defenders do more single target damage than Peacebringers?

1.)What does farming have to do with ST damage?

2.) What are you talking about?

I guess 2 should have been my first question.

Defenders are typically busy defending; They do not have time to compete with you for damage, generally. The situation where the defender feels comfortable enough to abandon actively mitigating damage and focus on dealing it instead is generally a situation where things are dying at such a rate that questions like "who is doing the most damage in this hurricane of death?" are largely irrelevant.

You know, really hard to tell which direction you were going with that.

lollowdpswut? Or doubleuTfhowugetdatdps?

So I'll just point to the data I personally have, and you can carry it either direction you like. Which, incidentally, I was able to improve my previous concept of DPS a bit so I'm glad you questioned it. Still doesn't put it somewhere I'm happy with (compared to other AT's), but it'd do. I stuck each of the single target attacks into NoChain based on best possible slotting I could manage with variations on which of the three ranged blasts could be present in the build and spun the wheel.

Previously I had been looking at 167 DPS with Perma Inner Light. Chain was: Radiant > G.Blast > G.Eye > Radiant > G.Blast > Incandescent and the Achille's Proc in G.Eye would be potentially up to ~185 DPS.

After I changed things up and re-ran with all the ST attacks, I'm now looking at Gleaming Blast > Gleaming Bolt > Radiant Strike, for 220 DPS with T4 Musculature and T4 Reactive.

Edit to avoid a secondary post. Fleshed out a prospective build on Beta and have seen the sad realization of what PPM does to Achilles' Heel. Without Hybrid, at all, T4 Musculature Core and T4 Reactive Radial, ranged 170-180 with a minimum of 41.3% Global +Dam (Including Inner Light's 28.8%). The inability to keep the Heel going for more than ~30/s out of every minute really kills it, and popping Light Form/Hasten constantly doesn't really help the DPS much either. Tested against a Pylon.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

I guess you've never seen a Rad/Sonic god mode monster slayer in action. They're defending the hell out of the dead GM corpses in front of them.

...Eh.


I'm just not in the mood, sorry.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. For future reference, not posting is always an option if you have nothing to say.

What discussion? This is just you being snarky and me not really being in the mood for it right now.

I could have replied with something about how your rad/sonic is an outlier example, which of course you already know. Then you would go on some math rant, and I would go on some math rant, and it's just tired and done.

I mean, do you *really* want to have this discussion again?

So, yeah, no, I'm just letting you know I'm not going to do that with you right now. Maybe later.

So you posted here in order to let me and everyone else who ever sees this thread know that you aren't posting here. Fantastic. Like I said, for future reference, if you have nothing to say, not posting is always an option. And don't act like Rad/Sonic is the only Defender build who can accomplish amazing ST feats that PB's could never dream of. To give them more raw damage on top of it is just insulting.

I'm posting to let YOU know that I'm not arguing with YOU. My post was entirely for YOUR benefit.

I don't have any other way of more clearly saying that.

Your argument was "I'm not going to argue with you." I know some people are passive aggressive, but come on.

It's not an argument. It's a statement. Information. Whatever.

Just let it go~

EDIT: Congrats on your 3000th post.

Ah, see 220 before hybrid is much closer to my own. Not happy to hear that bout Achilles ppm. Once ppms become involved it will probably be better to use rakeeb's chain that includes Istrike.

Thing is, 220 is the "Paper DPS", the practical DPS in dealing with things like Light Form and Hasten and Light Form's crashes and Inner Light every 30/s, I'm really not surprised the DPS wasn't 100% where I desired it to be. Running the actual test and only getting an average 175 (Achilles' Heel PPM aside), that's actually much lower than 220. I even attempted to damage cap with inspirations and see where I was ending up, and stalled a hair under 200 (196). Even using an Incandescent Strike chain only projected to be 2.6 DPS higher, ~5 DPS more if I tried working at least one proc in there, and about ~7 DPS more if I were to try and fit two procs (one being the Purple Hold-Set's Damage Proc). If I were crawling tooth and nail for DPS, then that'd be a direction to go in, but it doesn't change the facts. PB's aren't doing stellar damage.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

I don't think anyone was claiming they do stellar damage. I think a build striving for dps could hit ~220 pre-hybrid or be very close. Whether that is still too low or not is another question.

No, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone but the Devs in regards to where PB's sit in single-target damage. Compared to their brethren Warshades, Peacebringers neither impress on AoE nor ST, and they should on one of those two scales. If Warshades got designed to do impressively well on the AoE front, then transversely Peacebringers should excel at ST. To be clear, I'm not saying they should be buffed to the gills on damage, but a simple review of--at the least--their animation times, would be a stellar improvement. I get they're supposed to be somewhat Jack of All Trades, but--to me--they've always felt like an insanely survivable Blapper with terrible damage and two neat graphics-powers to help level up with before they become obsolete.

Ultimately, the part that bugs me the most, is that their competition Epic AT outshines them on nearly every level. The lowest, most generic version of the Arachnos Soldiers is the Hunstman style build, and that on its own with the same Incarnate Metric of T4 Musculature and T4 Reactive starts its average paper-DPS in the 200-220 range. I'm looking at a chain right now that's 224 DPS not counting any pets or -Res debuffs that it gets in its own set. The chain doesn't even require a back-breaking amount of recharge either, just 70% Global that is easily achieved. Compare that to a PB who has to starve itself into the 150+% range to do anything higher than 120 DPS.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

I wont argue against more damage, certainly, because i feel the same way, however I would temper those comparisons with the fact that a pb can have seriously ridiculous survivability, to the point that it is more appropriate to compare them to tanks or brutes. As for comparing them to warshades, there is still too large a gap between them in terms of damage, however the consistency that they bring to the table should not be discounted. I don't think a pb should ever reach the heights that a warshade can, but that is because it should not reach the lows either.
Regarding veats, simply put they do too much for their survival levels compared to almost any other at in the game, and i would not shed a single tear if they were nerfed to reasonable levels. (Looking at the crab spider that can down a pylon in under thirty seconds.)