Yep. I'm actually planning to retire my Traps/AR Defender (for unrelated reasons) so I probably won't bother with a respec on him but I'm definitely going to respec my Time/Elec Defender to take advantage of this.
He's already got Farsight so the current tentative plan is to drop Voltaic Sentinel to take Zapp and add a Kismet IO in somewhere. I've contemplated switching Assault for Tactics but I'm already using a Clarion Radial Epiphany to Power Boost my Farsight so Tactics seems like overkill (heck technically the Kismet is overkill, I'm mostly adding it for when I exemplar).
And I just respec'd the snipe out of my Time/NRG build. O.O I gave it the ol college try, but it was too laborious to use. His build already has Tactics, perma-Farsight, and Kismet
now to cram snipe back into the fold. I suppose it wont be as crucial to utilize Manticores/Extreme Measures to lessen the interrupt time anymore.
What the heck am I going to do if they give us crashless nukes? Skipping the nuke and snipe to pursue tough and weave was always an easy decision for me.
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What a thing of beauty that would be I'd drop screech from my mids build right away
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Originally Posted by Psymate_Dayton
What the heck am I going to do if they give us crashless nukes?
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| Skipping the nuke and snipe to pursue tough and weave was always an easy decision for me. |
I don't foresee that I'll be making any huge changes to take advantage of this. While it'll be nice going forward to have it as an option, I probably won't be respeccing any current builds..
So nice to know the changes that are meant to help Blasters are helping ATs that don't need any help at all.
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Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
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Well ...|
Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
So nice to know the changes that are meant to help Blasters are helping ATs that don't need any help at all.
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The devs have previously said that they don't any primary or secondary powers to be seen as useless / wasted picks / merely set mules. While there are individual powers within sets that are rarely taken, snipes are an entire class of power that exist in most ranged damage sets that very, very few people regularly use. Trying to make snipes reasonably worth taking is, IME, low hanging fruit when it comes to powers-related QoL changes.The interrupt + cast time mean they can actually hurt DPS.
Snipes are relics of a different era; they're tactical powers in a game that rarely rewards tactics beyond "buff and zerg". Honestly, they should've been changed years ago.
The more interesting question, IME, is what class of infrequently seen powers is next up to be changed? Toggled PBAoE KB (to be fair, one version was removed from Stalker EA already)? Defender cages (the one from Gravity was already changed to, IME, not much acclaim)? Or how 'bout some of the game's unique powers, like the T9s from Traps and FF?
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I will admit, the change to snipes will make me want to grab Proton Volley on my Rad/Rad defender. You are right in that many of the older powersets just don't quite fit in and changing them too much would simply not be feasible. One thing I think would help defenders is for the inherent to also help bypass some of the debuff resistance on enemies, even AVs and GMs to an extent. Not too much obviously, but the many debuffs should not have to feel completely useless against an AV sporting 87% debuff resistance across the board.|
Originally Posted by BurningChick
Well ...
The devs have previously said that they don't any primary or secondary powers to be seen as useless / wasted picks / merely set mules. While there are individual powers within sets that are rarely taken, snipes are an entire class of power that exist in most ranged damage sets that very, very few people regularly use. Trying to make snipes reasonably worth taking is, IME, low hanging fruit when it comes to powers-related QoL changes.The interrupt + cast time mean they can actually hurt DPS. Snipes are relics of a different era; they're tactical powers in a game that rarely rewards tactics beyond "buff and zerg". Honestly, they should've been changed years ago. The more interesting question, IME, is what class of infrequently seen powers is next up to be changed? Toggled PBAoE KB (to be fair, one version was removed from Stalker EA already)? Defender cages (the one from Gravity was already changed to, IME, not much acclaim)? Or how 'bout some of the game's unique powers, like the T9s from Traps and FF? |
That however, is for another thread entirely.
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
My Time/NRG Defender has a complete attack chain of ...Power Blast->Power Burst.
I don't know where I'd fit snipe in there, but I feel like I want to! Frankly I don't like using Total Focus much, maybe I can just drop it.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
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Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
I will admit, the change to snipes will make me want to grab Proton Volley on my Rad/Rad defender. You are right in that many of the older powersets just don't quite fit in and changing them too much would simply not be feasible. One thing I think would help defenders is for the inherent to also help bypass some of the debuff resistance on enemies, even AVs and GMs to an extent. Not too much obviously, but the many debuffs should not have to feel completely useless against an AV sporting 87% debuff resistance across the board.
That however, is for another thread entirely. |
THat's an interesting idea..
And to the OP....
I've been playing Offenders and more Offenders for a long time now. And I never really missed a snipe power. I think I'll still have more important things to take late in my builds (where the snipes usually show up) to take above snipes. Usually I'm wishing for more AOE damage, not more STDPS. So I don't see this as game changing for Defs. Maybe moreso for Corrs who will be able to grab the snipe earlier. Maybe for some Blasters.. But not much for any of my offenders.
Will Insta-Moonbeam outdamage Gloom?
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I'll check.
gloom: 63.62 damage, 1.32 animation
moonbeam: 99.76 damage, 1.488 animation
So gloom is 48.2 DPA and 67 DPA.
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Not quite sure if you're serious about that or not.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
THat's an interesting idea..
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Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
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I'd like to think us more casual types are getting a nice buff. My Rad/Rad is going from Cosmic - X-Ray - Neutrino to Cosmic - Photon - Neutrino. That's a really nice jump.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
And to the OP....
I've been playing Offenders and more Offenders for a long time now. And I never really missed a snipe power. I think I'll still have more important things to take late in my builds (where the snipes usually show up) to take above snipes. Usually I'm wishing for more AOE damage, not more STDPS. So I don't see this as game changing for Defs. Maybe moreso for Corrs who will be able to grab the snipe earlier. Maybe for some Blasters.. But not much for any of my offenders. |
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Good-bye, Gloom. I won't miss you and your DoT! If I could dump Dark Blast instead of you, I would, but I can't. And leave that Apocalypse Set on the way out the door.|
Originally Posted by Garent
I'll check.
gloom: 63.62 damage, 1.32 animation moonbeam: 99.76 damage, 1.488 animation So gloom is 48.2 DPA and [moonbeam] 67 DPA. |
Why, hello there, Moon Beam. So nice to see you again. May I offer you a nice set of Apocalypse I happen to have handy? You try this on while I find a Kismet:ToHit. You can talk to Tactics in the meantime, that's the one wearing a full set of Gaussian.
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Ok thinking about it more. I don't WANT to drop Voltaic Sentinel from my build. The power I want to drop is Thunderstike (it's a fun power but the animation is so long I'd rather just have Zapp) but if I drop that then I'd have to switch form Electricity Mastery to Mu Mastery and the colors would clash with my costume (plus Shocking Bolt is soooo much better than Electric Shackles).
Now if I strip the slots from Thunderstrike (or just switch it for Electric Fence which has some utility even unslotted) I could drop one of my other unslotted powers for Zapp. Ok options are Combat Jumping, Vengeance, Temporal Selection or Time Crawl. But I like all of those. Temporal Selection is the one I least care for mostly because I rarely remember to use it (and it always seems kinda meh on large leagues) but I'd feel bad skipping it. Vengeance is skippable but then something else gets moved to level 49. Combat Jumping isn't an option (I love the mobility it provides). Maybe I'll just drop Time Crawl, I don't use it a whole lot anyway (I tend to just stack Shocking Bolt and Time Stop to hold bosses).
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Totally serious. Defenders are often accused of being the less effective cousins to corrs. Such a change, if it's careful to hit the right mark, powerwise, would give them a unique dynamic that shouldn't be overpowering, and yet useful in both small groups, and large. Let's face it, the end reduction dynamic is totally worthless solo, and the damage boost of quite obviously useless on large teams. It'd be nice to have a AT power that, like every other ATs, is consistently useful at all times. I like this idea in general. They only flaw with it is that it does nothing for defs without a debuff..
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Originally Posted by Zul_Vakirol
Not quite sure if you're serious about that or not.
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It is a bump. And it does allow more options. Both of these are very good things. If I have to resepc in the future for some other reason, I may even take advantage of it, but alone, I don't think it warrants a respec. That might depend on how tight, or finely tuned the build/attack chain already is, however. |
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
I'd like to think us more casual types are getting a nice buff. My Rad/Rad is going from Cosmic - X-Ray - Neutrino to Cosmic - Photon - Neutrino. That's a really nice jump.
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But, all things being equal, I'll generally always agree with a change that allows more options and variety.
However, upon thinking about it....
The change to snipes has 2 interesting things to touch upon. One is a potential downside, one a potential upside, as I see them..
Potential downside. The lower recharge values might make the tough to work into a seemless attack chain, and even though they may (probably almost always will) have a higher DPA than an alternate power, if it causes the attack chain to lag too much, it might not be worth it. It will probably depend on the exact numbers of the instant snipes. How fast are they now? How fast to they recharge, etc.. I haven't seen those numbers, so I can only speculate... But, if they are slower to recharge, that leads to their potential advantage...
The new procs rules, if they are all based on PPM, not proc per use, that will give a significant advantage to the snipes and longer recharge powers. I might respec at that point to change my Rad pew-pew proc machinegun to something else, as it's big advantage might very well be going away soon.. Snipes may rule the day in their place, depending, again, onhow the numbers work out. And if they grandfather in the old procs or not, like the kept Hami-Os around even with the arrival of the invention system, and knowing that there were many exploits in that Hami system. I don't expect the old procs to be grandfathered, but as the currently have 2 versions of the same IOs available, they seem to have the tech available to do it if they want.
In your spot, I'd be saying goodbye to Time Crawl. Only reservation I might have, is that I seem to recall it also has some -regen component. Not sure, but if it does, and if it's amount isn't tiny, I might be tempted to keep it. Otherwise, "Adios, TC."
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Ok thinking about it more. I don't WANT to drop Voltaic Sentinel from my build. The power I want to drop is Thunderstike (it's a fun power but the animation is so long I'd rather just have Zapp) but if I drop that then I'd have to switch form Electricity Mastery to Mu Mastery and the colors would clash with my costume (plus Shocking Bolt is soooo much better than Electric Shackles).
Now if I strip the slots from Thunderstrike (or just switch it for Electric Fence which has some utility even unslotted) I could drop one of my other unslotted powers for Zapp. Ok options are Combat Jumping, Vengeance, Temporal Selection or Time Crawl. But I like all of those. Temporal Selection is the one I least care for mostly because I rarely remember to use it (and it always seems kinda meh on large leagues) but I'd feel bad skipping it. Vengeance is skippable but then something else gets moved to level 49. Combat Jumping isn't an option (I love the mobility it provides). Maybe I'll just drop Time Crawl, I don't use it a whole lot anyway (I tend to just stack Shocking Bolt and Time Stop to hold bosses). |
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It has -100% regen which is not that great. It does stop the regeneration of normal enemies but that's rarely a major concern. Against an even level AV it's equivalent to about 14.14 DPS which isn't that useful (for comparison a Beam Rifle Blaster can toss out more -regen using Disintegrate and Single Shot than a Time Defender can with TC and Time Stop).|
Originally Posted by Madadh
In your spot, I'd be saying goodbye to Time Crawl. Only reservation I might have, is that I seem to recall it also has some -regen component. Not sure, but if it does, and if it's amount isn't tiny, I might be tempted to keep it. Otherwise, "Adios, TC."
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So yeah adios Time Crawl, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Yeah, -100 isn't stellar. Does it stack, though? I seem to recall time doesn't have much -regen at all available to it. If the duration is long, and it self stacks, it might (might!!) be worth it. But yeah, prolly best to say, "Ciao!"
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It has -100% regen which is not that great. It does stop the regeneration of normal enemies but that's rarely a major concern. Against an even level AV it's equivalent to about 14.14 DPS which isn't that useful (for comparison a Beam Rifle Blaster can toss out more -regen using Disintegrate and Single Shot than a Time Defender can with TC and Time Stop).
So yeah adios Time Crawl, don't let the door hit you on the way out. |
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It does not stack (and the duration isn't that great anyway).
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Originally Posted by Madadh
Yeah, -100 isn't stellar. Does it stack, though? I seem to recall time doesn't have much -regen at all available to it. If the duration is long, and it self stacks, it might (might!!) be worth it. But yeah, prolly best to say, "Ciao!"
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I laughed. Hard.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Good-bye, Gloom. I won't miss you and your DoT! If I could dump Dark Blast instead of you, I would, but I can't. And leave that Apocalypse Set on the way out the door.
Why, hello there, Moon Beam. So nice to see you again. May I offer you a nice set of Apocalypse I happen to have handy? You try this on while I find a Kismet:ToHit. You can talk to Tactics in the meantime, that's the one wearing a full set of Gaussian. |
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The solution is very simple: Buff the inherent in the manner I mentioned anyway, while also providing buffs to the primaries that have no form of debuffs, like FF and Empathy to compensate. With all the enemy types who can drain endurance, extra defense and recovery would go a long way. Perhaps make it so Empathy's auras get a boost, but not to the point they're overpowered, and if it's not already done, make FF grant some form of debuff resistance in endurance drain and a small amount of +res. Not nearly enough to step on Sonic Resonance's toes obviously, maybe +10% or so. Trick Arrow would be more difficult, maybe also a slight reduction in base recharge for that set? I -think- that about covers the primaries that wouldn't see a full benefit to the inherent buff.|
Originally Posted by Madadh
Totally serious. Defenders are often accused of being the less effective cousins to corrs. Such a change, if it's careful to hit the right mark, powerwise, would give them a unique dynamic that shouldn't be overpowering, and yet useful in both small groups, and large. Let's face it, the end reduction dynamic is totally worthless solo, and the damage boost of quite obviously useless on large teams. It'd be nice to have a AT power that, like every other ATs, is consistently useful at all times. I like this idea in general. They only flaw with it is that it does nothing for defs without a debuff..
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I am aware that Trick Arrow has many debuffs, but most of them are on lengthy recharges and the more useful ones require a tohit check, useful if you get mezzed, but a Radiation Emission or Dark Miasma can simply leave the toggles on and allow the melee ATs to gather aggro.
Pseudo pets like Sleet and Liquefy would carry about 2/3 of the debuff bypass when used. Though it would depend on which of them could be made Permanent easily through simple SO slotting, or if it required very heavy IO slotting. If the former, than about 2/3 or so, the latter would be the full debuff also depending on if it was not just easy perma, but easy stacking with IO slotting.
I don't want something that would heavily debuff an AV or GM being triple-stacked from one Defender and using 2/3 of that Debuff Resistance bypass, but I don't want that kind of build to be completely punished either. Maybe diminishing returns on pseudo pets summoned from the same caster perhaps?
A large team of Rad/Sonic defenders would of course stomp AVs flat, but let's be rather frank here, a large team of debuff heavy defenders or corrs would do that in just about any situation due to them all being force multipliers.
Global - @Proton Sentinel
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50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
So +22% to hit gets every snipe but LRM insta-snipe. For a defender that's Tactics at ED plus a Kismet.
My rad/rad can potentially chain Cosmic Burst - Proton Volley - Neutrino Bolt. Oh, I think Cosmic Burst is getting a range boost too.