Hi Alpha-Six,
This same question has been posed in previous threads, and the same conclusion is basically reached in each thread. That being: its real nice to have a permadom, but not necessary in order to have a great build.
And if you give it some thought, this widely held conclusion makes sense.
To achieve permadom status on a build, one needs to slot the powers within the build to facilitate all the +Recharge IOs and set bonuses. This gimping affects several elements of your powers - ACC, DAM, Range, etc. So to gain the high recharge rate on your Dom, your taking away in other areas of the build.
The constant mez protection that is so sought after in permadoms - can now be achieved through the spamming of the Clarion power. This is a simple but effective way to plug a big hole in the AT.
Now, I'm not saying you should have no +Recharge in your build. In fact, I personally thing +Recharge on a Dom is something to strive for. But, to go to extremes in your build just to have Domination constant is just plain unnecessary.
On my Earth/Energy/Ice Dom I have a Recharge Time Bonus of 143.75 with Hasten going. I have found that this recharge rate coupled with a high Damage Bonus amount and the Cardiac Alpha to be very nice. Additionally, I am able to easily achieve permadom status in the game's high-end content with any +Recharge buff from a team member.
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This is at the least least perhaps poorly phrased. In most cases, you will end up using 5 pieces from sets, as +recharge is most of the time a tier 5 bonus. As many sets have 5 "pure enhancement" IO's, then a 5th 'effect' IO, in many cases because of slot crunch you will end up 'only' using 5 slots, not 6.|
Originally Posted by LIinfinity
Hi Alpha-Six,
...To achieve permadom status on a build, one needs to slot the powers within the build to facilitate all the +Recharge IOs and set bonuses. This gimping affects several elements of your powers - ACC, DAM, Range, etc. So to gain the high recharge rate on your Dom, your taking away in other areas of the build..... |
The funny thing with IO's is that the more values they enhance, the greater the bonus their enhancement. So while an SO gives 33%, a multi-use IO will usually give around 25% to two aspects. So two acc/damage Io's give 50/50 enhancement, a combined 100% value to a straight 66% from SO's. The thing is, ALL set IO's are multi-aspect with these bonuses, so on average they will give you full value on their main effect, then about equal to one SO on the extra values. (usually recharge/accuracy/endurance)
So in the end you will be tied to what would be a 'conventional' enhancement (but better) equivalent of one accuracy SO, three main effect, one recharge, and one endurance reduction. This does vary a bit set-to set, but on average it's about the same.
As to the OP's main question, Mind/energy would profit quite a bit from the extra recharge and the higher magnitude/duration of domination. Mind benefits the most from domination, as all but one power gets the extra magnitude/ and/or duration. That said, it's hardly necessary. so play it to taste. The extra investment will certainly make your character stronger, but I find it just makes things go faster/easier for doms rather than completely changing how they play.
As to mez protection, on any dominator I would personally steer clear of relying on clarion. Your archetype has a tool that works better for longer, and won't go away when exemplared. It's handy for many trials, and the radial has a power boost effect. That said, domination is just plain better, and makes your primary better too. (mezzing foes that mez beats escaping their mez by a longshot)
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Thanks LIinfinity,|
Originally Posted by LIinfinity
This same question has been posed in previous threads, and the same conclusion is basically reached in each thread. That being: its real nice to have a permadom, but not necessary in order to have a great build. |
Yeah I saw a post last night I was reading but it was late and by the time i got around to looking for it today I could not for the life of me find it again to read the conclusions.
That was the Answer i hoped to hear, in the build I have planed I will have more than enough +recharge (110 without hasten I think i can deal with 5 secs off perma to have stealth!) Thank you again for a very clear and concise reply!
its REALLY hard for me to like playing my doms without them being perma lol
once you go perma you wont want to go back lol
that being said its not necessarily required to be perma to play a dom, but why would you NOT want to perma mez protection, double mag mezzes, and extra duration on mezzes? lol
In case it is not obvious, this is my first Dom.. well technically my second my first was a dark/dark.. i just could not get into for some reason. I should have added in my first post besides concept, hover I have because well energy can be .. messy. I Don't have to tell you the number of times i have made >.< faces at that guy with gale or power push when my brute has just taunted! If not for my self imposed need to hover/fly it would be a easy decision!
Like i said my finished build is 5 seconds off perma. I feel that's pretty decent. I like going the stealth route because of confuse/mass confusion. She is still at a tender age so in all likely hood that could change and it is also a easy change ( only one power to switch and many respecs available) if at later date I deiced on going full permadom. While i am still a bit from when i have planed to take hasten or stealth I like to get my ducks in a row. Plus as i said It's quite new to me but so far i am enjoying this AT a lot.. rather like a blaster that does not fall down :P (Blasters are going to come beat me up now!)
All the advice so far as been invaluable, Thank you!
Just to note, as you are taking both hover and stealth (which I did as well) those are excellent places to but an extra luck of the gambler: +recharge. Two power pools, zero slots burned, +15% recharge.
*Edit* It should be noted there's a big reason people shoot for "Perma" domination: it refreshes its durations, meaning if you activate it before it drops, there is zero 'building domination' time necessary.
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This, and also if you go farther into the pool you can help team mates, slot more LotG, and pick up phase shift which is also a handy tool.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Just to note, as you are taking both hover and stealth (which I did as well) those are excellent places to but an extra luck of the gambler: +recharge. Two power pools, zero slots burned, +15% recharge.
*Edit* It should be noted there's a big reason people shoot for "Perma" domination: it refreshes its durations, meaning if you activate it before it drops, there is zero 'building domination' time necessary. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
dark dark is ok without perma, i have it perma and the only really noticeable power that used with the domination is the mass hold and the fearsome stare
as for mind energy, definitely get perma, mind is insanely powerful with perma (my mind fire perma has solo'd tfs because of perma confusing the AVs)
9/10 times i normally go for perma because of the mez protection, the extra mez stuff is nice too but mez protection is what i go for normally
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You can use enhancement boosters to get lot's of the lowers values back while slotting for +recharge. I haven't had to sacrifice any damage from using the set's and you can easily boost the rest (recharge, end and acc with boosters).|
Originally Posted by LIinfinity
Hi Alpha-Six,
This same question has been posed in previous threads, and the same conclusion is basically reached in each thread. That being: its real nice to have a permadom, but not necessary in order to have a great build. And if you give it some thought, this widely held conclusion makes sense. To achieve permadom status on a build, one needs to slot the powers within the build to facilitate all the +Recharge IOs and set bonuses. This gimping affects several elements of your powers - ACC, DAM, Range, etc. So to gain the high recharge rate on your Dom, your taking away in other areas of the build. The constant mez protection that is so sought after in permadoms - can now be achieved through the spamming of the Clarion power. This is a simple but effective way to plug a big hole in the AT. |
Clarion will plug the Mez hole but wouldn't you rather have more def/resist, +End/+Rech/+Recov or debuff resist plus a heal with a very nice regen buff attached. You will sacrifice in other way's by taking clarion as well.
Edit: You can get more damage bonuses by frankin slotting but then you might need Cardiac for end management. If you slot for perma-dom you can get those damage boost that you may loose back easily by taking Musc or Intut and Intut also boost your holds and the range LIinfinity was talking about you loosing.
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
its REALLY hard for me to like playing my doms without them being perma lol
once you go perma you wont want to go back lol that being said its not necessarily required to be perma to play a dom, but why would you NOT want to perma mez protection, double mag mezzes, and extra duration on mezzes? lol |
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Whoa, I had to read this a few times are you saying that boosters can increase the recharge value? Example: Lotg, the 7.5 becomes Higher?
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Originally Posted by Equality_NA
You can use enhancement boosters to get lot's of the lowers values back while slotting for +recharge. I haven't had to sacrifice any damage from using the set's and you can easily boost the rest (recharge, end and acc with boosters).
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Boosters increase the basic value of any IO. You can boost any IO up yo 5 times. Take the Decimation set for example. Slotted with 5 lvl 40 (no proc) you get around 63 Acc, 89 Damage, 43 End and 63 recharge. Boosters can make that 78 Acc, 98 Damage, 54 End and 78 recharge. You still get the set bonuses including the + global recharge you need for perma dom without outside help.
The +recharge in Lotg is a global buff and can't be boosted but the defense part of the IO can be.
Mind Control LOVES absolutely LOVES domination. Should it be perma? To be honest, I still cannot understand the point in getting permadom unless you are soloing 100% of the time. On Teams, mez protection is easy to obtain and mezzes are easier to avoid. Stronger controls are great and all but many many sets don't need it. Mind LOVES it, yes, but you already have Terrify and can stack confuse/dominate (the power) for single targets. Free blue bar is forgettable. Eat a blue, be happy.
Build Recharge for faster spamming of Confuse/Dominate, not for perma-dom, you'll get faster doms, which is just as good. so it takes 15 seconds for dom to recharge after it falls off, not too shabby I say. Use those extra sets for extra defense/regen.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
I'd have to chime in with while it's not necessary, if you can afford the inf cost you really ought to finagle a way to permadom any mind dom. Mind is so rediculously good with domination that you'll want to have it everytime you throw out a control. Basically every power in the set benefits from it. Really, I would strongly look at finding a way to fit hover/fly, stealth and hasten into the build to make it work. It shouldn't be impossible to accomplish 
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This is Great to know.. I never though about it! i have like well alot of boosters fro my forray in to super packs|
Originally Posted by Equality_NA
Boosters increase the basic value of any IO. You can boost any IO up yo 5 times. Take the Decimation set for example. Slotted with 5 lvl 40 (no proc) you get around 63 Acc, 89 Damage, 43 End and 63 recharge. Boosters can make that 78 Acc, 98 Damage, 54 End and 78 recharge. You still get the set bonuses including the + global recharge you need for perma dom without outside help.
The +recharge in Lotg is a global buff and can't be boosted but the defense part of the IO can be. |
This handy tip may save me a bundle of Inf and time getting the purples! Thanks!Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Hextor
I'd have to chime in with while it's not necessary, if you can afford the inf cost you really ought to finagle a way to permadom any mind dom. Mind is so rediculously good with domination that you'll want to have it everytime you throw out a control. Basically every power in the set benefits from it. Really, I would strongly look at finding a way to fit hover/fly, stealth and hasten into the build to make it work. It shouldn't be impossible to accomplish
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Your point is valid, although your last statement is factually wrong. Most of the purple sets have one single-aspect enhancement, Obliteration has a pure Damage enhancement, most of the Defense sets have a pure Defense enhancement, both Accurate Healing sets and most of the Healing sets have a pure Healing enhancement, most Resistance sets have a pure Resistance enhancement, etc. Most set IOs enhance multiple aspects of a power (the travel sets are the exception; only one set for each type of travel has a multiple-aspect enhancement -- the other two in the set are +speed/dist [jump/fly/run] and +EndRdx); for those that do, the combined bonus is greater than an equal-level common IO. For example, level-50 Acc or Dam IOs are +42.4%; a level-50 Acc/Dam IO is +26.5% to each -- two would be +53%.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
The funny thing with IO's is that the more values they enhance, the greater the bonus their enhancement. So while an SO gives 33%, a multi-use IO will usually give around 25% to two aspects. So two acc/damage Io's give 50/50 enhancement, a combined 100% value to a straight 66% from SO's. The thing is, ALL set IO's are multi-aspect with these bonuses, so on average they will give you full value on their main effect, then about equal to one SO on the extra values. (usually recharge/accuracy/endurance)
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"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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QFT.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Mind Control LOVES absolutely LOVES domination. Should it be perma? To be honest, I still cannot understand the point in getting permadom unless you are soloing 100% of the time. On Teams, mez protection is easy to obtain and mezzes are easier to avoid. Stronger controls are great and all but many many sets don't need it. Mind LOVES it, yes, but you already have Terrify and can stack confuse/dominate (the power) for single targets. Free blue bar is forgettable. Eat a blue, be happy.
Build Recharge for faster spamming of Confuse/Dominate, not for perma-dom, you'll get faster doms, which is just as good. so it takes 15 seconds for dom to recharge after it falls off, not too shabby I say. Use those extra sets for extra defense/regen. |
I have 2 doms, a F3 and a Mind/Psi/Psi. My F3 is fun, but I never felt the need to Permadom it. I built my Mind/P2 the same way at first and only got moderate performance from it. The second I respec'd it and went for Permadom/Permahasten levels of recharge, the game changed. If your doing anything Mind/ go for Permadom. Sure, you get the added benefit of Mez protection, but High levels of Recharge will let you spam your controls to the point you'll rarely need it.
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If you had a finished build that is at 110% global recharge, I would go ahead and get Hasten. That would give you perma-hasten and more than enough recharge for perma-dom. You would not have full invisibility, but you'd have a bit of wiggle room. If you are on a team, how often are you going to really use the extra protection that stealth IO + stealth power gives? You can case confuse/mass confuse from outside the aggro distance that the stealth IO would give you. Most teams move pretty fast.
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Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
In case it is not obvious, this is my first Dom.. well technically my second my first was a dark/dark.. i just could not get into for some reason. I should have added in my first post besides concept, hover I have because well energy can be .. messy. I Don't have to tell you the number of times i have made >.< faces at that guy with gale or power push when my brute has just taunted! If not for my self imposed need to hover/fly it would be a easy decision!
Like i said my finished build is 5 seconds off perma. I feel that's pretty decent. I like going the stealth route because of confuse/mass confusion. She is still at a tender age so in all likely hood that could change and it is also a easy change ( only one power to switch and many respecs available) if at later date I deiced on going full permadom. While i am still a bit from when i have planed to take hasten or stealth I like to get my ducks in a row. Plus as i said It's quite new to me but so far i am enjoying this AT a lot.. rather like a blaster that does not fall down :P (Blasters are going to come beat me up now!) All the advice so far as been invaluable, Thank you! |
I have a Mind/Energy i really enjoy playing, ( went with energy over psi because shes Praetorian and well with all the clockworks, seers, ghouls, etc figured it would be best anywhose) I have reached the point where i am about to take hasten but i kinda want stealth ( shes a flyer part of the whole carnival of light concept so no SS). Stealth+Stealth IO would be rather nice to position for my mass powers.
So now the question just how important is permadom to a Mind/Energy? That mez protection is sweet but I am just not sure which direction to go.