Trickshooter's Hyper-Intellect (Powerset Suggestion)
By
Hopeling,
Posted on: 2012-05-13 13:35 in Suggestions and Ideas
Ok guys, I took the feedback and updated the set a bit.
For starters, I reduced the total number of Intuition stacks you can have at one time to 10. Then I lowered some of the amounts granted by the various powers, while also increasing the bonus values of the 3 toggles to compensate (doubled Evade and Precision, more than doubled Advantage).
This way it's easier to take advantage of the full bonuses from the toggles even before SOs, just not constantly, and without needing all powers in the set being used at once.
For Evade, I reduced the base value of the Defense buff from 15% for Defenders and 11.25% for everyone else to 12.5% for Defenders and 9.375% for everyone else.
I then took the small Defense buff value that I removed from Evade and put it in to Insight, as well as adding a minor Stealth bonus to Insight. This way Insight has some slottable effect and gives more of a reason to take it and use it more than once per mission besides the +Intuition effect.
I reduced the recharge time of Analyze and reduced the endurance cost so it was easier to use, especially in the low levels.
I increased the bonus +Damage of Advantage so that with the new 10 stack limit of Intuition, you'd be getting 37.5% +Damage total ( 25 + ( 10 * 1.25 ) = 37.5 ).
I added an Endurance Discount to Acumen, because the idea is that you're making your teammates more efficient, and increasing their Recharge without either +Recovery or -EndCost is not efficient. >_>
I increased the Damage Debuff of Unnerve slightly since it's the only AoE Debuff in a set with limited ways to reduce damage.
Like I said, I added a small Defense and Stealth bonus to Insight so there was more of an incentive to take it and more of a reason to use it more than once per mission besides to take advantage of stacks of Intuition.
And then for Jumpstart, I added a Scale 4 MaxHP buff and +20 Max Endurance buff.
Edit: I also removed the arbitrary '[Effect does not stack from same caster.]' tags from any instance of +Intuition where it wasn't necessary. So now Intuition can stack from multiple uses of Analyze, Commanding Shout, Insight, and Jumpstart.
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RI also has a long animation time and can be prone to being nixed by silly team members who kill the RI target ASAP, KB with Force Bolt, Radial KB the mobs nearby, AS the target etc. Also, on a good team, by the time RI finishes animating, the team is already moving to the next spawn since they already wiped out the current one. All you have to do for Evade is be within 80ft for as you say 28% defense up 100% of the time.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Apparently is does take some number crunching to look at it and understand. My first reaction to Evade was the same as yours, but then I kept reading.
You have to look at the set as a whole. 15*1.56 + 5 = ~28%. That is not insignificant. But what else does the set provide for mitigation? It has strong -Damage, a modest slow, and a weak AoE Fear effect to apply to enemies. Mez protection, weak Psi resists, as well as resistance to slows, to-hit debuffs, and perception debuffs. 2 allies can get a level shift. That's it. The rest is modest offense. Compare to Rad. Radiation Infection can easily be applying -48% to hit, which is more effective mitigation than Evade even against +3s. That one power also makes it so your team only misses 5% of the time. Other mitigation in Rad includes a modest heal, end drain resistance, mez resistance, modest -damage, a massive AoE slow, a modest AoE Hold effect, and the best AoE hold in the game. If someone dies it can add more to hit and damage debuffs, as well as return the fallen ally to the fight. |
Trickshooter: I did look at the whole set. However, Evade set the early tone that says "This set if OP! Don't mess with me"
Mag 4 mez protect that works on the caster? Buzz.
You lowered the numbers, they are getting closer but still out of line. Defender "bonus" is too high.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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This isn't really true. A character using Hyper-Intellect would first have to build up to 10 stacks of Intuition. If they can't use their debuffs because the team is moving too fast, then they're relying on long-recharge buffs and Acumen to build up Intuition. Also, with the way I've altered the set now, Evade post-22 would only be able to reach 24.5% Defense.|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
RI also has a long animation time and can be prone to being nixed by silly team members who kill the RI target ASAP, KB with Force Bolt, Radial KB the mobs nearby, AS the target etc. Also, on a good team, by the time RI finishes animating, the team is already moving to the next spawn since they already wiped out the current one. All you have to do for Evade is be within 80ft for as you say 28% defense up 100% of the time.
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| Trickshooter: I did look at the whole set. However, Evade set the early tone that says "This set if OP! Don't mess with me" |
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| Mag 4 mez protect that works on the caster? Buzz. |
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| You lowered the numbers, they are getting closer but still out of line. Defender "bonus" is too high. |
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Those drawbacks to Radiation Infection are why the power is available so early and why it has the debuff numbers it has. You cannot hold a power's drawbacks up as a balancing point around which all powers should be balanced toward. A set's combined utility (well, for support sets) is what should be balanced around.|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
RI also has a long animation time and can be prone to being nixed by silly team members who kill the RI target ASAP, KB with Force Bolt, Radial KB the mobs nearby, AS the target etc. Also, on a good team, by the time RI finishes animating, the team is already moving to the next spawn since they already wiped out the current one. All you have to do for Evade is be within 80ft for as you say 28% defense up 100% of the time.
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I might understand the position that Evade comes too early in the set so perhaps swap it with a later power, but just because the set has a strong power doesn't make it out of line.
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| Mag 4 mez protect that works on the caster? Buzz. |
Anyway, not really making a comment on looks or balance of the set now. But you may want to rename the Intuition mechanic to something else. The new Psychic Melee set uses an mechanic called Intuition, I believe. As far as I can tell, no set uses mechanics that are outright called the same thing. Dual Blades has Combos, Street Justice has Combo Levels, Staff Fighting uses Perfection, the new Water Blast uses Tidal something, etc...
Sorry if I'm not as coherent as I'd like to be here.. but this get's a thumbs up! The idea of a "natural" set that could work for a lot of concept builds intrigues me! I'd certainly play it... and possibly pair it with Robotics or Beam Rifle (AT depending)...
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Someone should PM this thread to synapse. 
This is an absolutely spectacular idea for a powerset. I'm not sure I grok the mechanics and numbers you've suggested well enough to provide useful commentary on that, but I love the overall idea.
I sent synapse a pm pushing for this set. Anyone else that likes it should go ahead and do so as well. Hopefully he reads it and has a second to take out of his schedule to read the first post.
Than again I messaged Hawk a few weeks back and nothin.
How are the end costs of the toggles compared to other sets? Just by looking at them they seem heavy.
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They're actually significantly cheaper than other sets toggles. Possibly too much cheaper.|
Originally Posted by RevolverMike
How are the end costs of the toggles compared to other sets? Just by looking at them they seem heavy.
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Most other Defender toggles cost 0.52 a second. These would cost 0.208. But that was based on the Arachnos version toggles, which might be too generous for the Defender AT.
It might be more realistic to make them cost between 0.39 and 0.52 a second. That would put them between the original Leadership toggles and standard Defender toggle costs.
ok. Cool. Yeah, I dont have too many buff/debuff toons currently so I'm not too familar with end costs. Sounds like there needs to be a few tweaks.
I really want this set. Not that big of a controller fan but this would make me roll one in an instant.
Conceptually, I love it. It's definitely an cool under-represented super ability category. In execution, I'm not sure how much I like the Intuition-stacking concept. I get the idea behind it, but am not sure it'd work in a way that was fun to play.
this is awesome, i like it, maybe the move could be changed a bit but the general concept is unique and new to the superhero MMO, there are alot of smart superheroes/supervillains in the comic book world who use pure intellect to beat their foes, to see something like that in the game would be great, thumbs up man
The level shift power is the only thing that really bothers me. it just feels out of place. what about a moderate to hit bonus in its place?
Kinda wish there was a bit more -res, but i can live with what it does have.
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It is interesting to think about. |
Originally Posted by RevolverMike
The level shift power is the only thing that really bothers me. it just feels out of place. what about a moderate to hit bonus in its place?
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A level shift, in essence, provides +to-hit, +dam, +mez duration, +KB, +debuff value, +resistance (but a form that is not limited by the cap), +def, +resistance to mez, KB, and debuffs, and likely other stuff I am forgetting.
And it will do nothing against an entity that uses the GM code, which is actually the thing that concerns me the most about including it and one of the reasons I suggested adding something extra to Jumpstart.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It is interesting to think about.
A level shift, in essence, provides +to-hit, +dam, +mez duration, +KB, +debuff value, +resistance (but a form that is not limited by the cap), +def, +resistance to mez, KB, and debuffs, and likely other stuff I am forgetting. And it will do nothing against an entity that uses the GM code, which is actually the thing that concerns me the most about including it and one of the reasons I suggested adding something extra to Jumpstart. |
Very good point. I just feel like if the devs created this power it would end up being a modest +To hit and +Dam.
I love the idea of this powerset! Finally, another set that would work well for natural origin characters. And it's certainly a well-established "powerset" in comics.
If it's decided that the set's buffs are too powerful, I'd much prefer the values be lowered rather than making the powers not affect the caster.
And whatever is decided wrt graphics, it'd be great to have a minimal fx option.
The character with Hyper-Intellect will always have the max # of intuition stacks. That's a problem. Remove stacking for the power owner or better yet, just remove intuition to save on icon spam and CPU cycles.
Reduce the sizes, 80ft is too large.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Well, "always" really only occurs post-SOs, but anyway...|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
The character with Hyper-Intellect will always have the max # of intuition stacks. That's a problem.
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Why? Please explain to me why a character actively using all powers from their primary shouldn't be allowed to take full advantage of the theme of their set.
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| Remove stacking for the power owner or better yet, just remove intuition to save on icon spam and CPU cycles. |
And since it is limited to 10, it wouldn't be anymore "icon spam" than Fulcrum Shift, Invincibility, Heat Loss, Drain Psyche, Rise to the Challenge, Consume, or a host of other powers that grant multiple icons would be.
Unless you mean remove the ability for the bonus buffs (just the values granted by the Intuition stacks) to affect the caster, which I already said would be something I'd be willing to do if the bonuses ended up being too good, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up again.
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| Reduce the sizes, 80ft is too large. |
I'm also not convinced that a power that can only ever buff 8 people at a time (as these toggles are limited to teammates, not allies or leaguemates) will be too good at an 80ft range, especially considering the current state of certain buff powers like the shields from FF, Cold, Sonic, or Thermal, which can affect up to 255 people per use in a 30 ft radius from 80 ft away and can be used every 2 seconds to cover an entire league or raid in a matter of seconds.
Is this being made yet?
This thread tears it. Trickshooter needs to be hired on as part of the powers team.
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
This is a great idea. Would love to see this in game. Really like to pair this up with dual pistols
Cypher Flash: 50 TA/Rad/Dark Defender
Controller = The Guardian Angel over your shoulder who makes sure nothing goes wrong.
Defender = The Combat Corpsman who bandages your wound, kills a Nazi with a tounge depressor, then hands you a clip of ammo.
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I know synapse has seen this thread. Now we just have to see if anything comes of it. *crosses fingers*
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Originally Posted by Kirsten
This thread tears it. Trickshooter needs to be hired on as part of the powers team.
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Okay, I've planned out my Archery/Hyper-Intellect Corruptor. When is this supposed to hit Live?
Please?
So, 15 + 20 stacks of .25 for a grand total of 20% before slotting?
No way in heck is that going to happen when the much loled Force Field is 10% with a much smaller radius and it comes at level 12. I'll point out that this is the level 1 power with an 80ft radius!
It would probably require that the Hyper-Intellect's powers not effect the caster. It probably means losing the caster inclusion with Commanding Shout and Advantage. 40 ft radius is going to be the max.
You should look over the values at City of Data. http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...etype.php?at=3
Based on what is in the game, the numbers look out of line.
Also worth keeping in mind, Force Fields is a set in need of review and according to Arbiter Hawk, is one of his top candidates to review when he gets the chance. Considering that, I'm not sure it's appropriate to use it in comparisons as even the devs acknowledge that it's a set that offers less overall compared to other sets. It would be more appropriate to compare this set to other sets that offered Defense with a combination of other effects, rather than Forcefields Defense + Distance effects.
Anyway, in this case, (for a Defender) Evade is a power that gives 15% enhanceable defense with a bonus unenhanceable 5% defense that players can't get the full benefit from until level 32, that as a toggle won't benefit from PB/PBU, in a set that has limited options for reducing incoming damage and no way to recover damage taken.
If we were to just look at the individual powers in a vacuum, then yes, Evade can provide more Defense (as can Traps/Force Field Generator and Time Manipulation/Farsight, by the way), but Dispersion Bubble also gets mez protection and mez resistance in a power that can be up all the time just by nature of being a toggle. Even if I were to include Commanding Shout in the comparison, it's nature as a click means it won't be anywhere near as reliable until SOs.
By the time SOs come in to play, Hyper-Intellect would be able to grant 26.4% Defense(All) and 23.4% Resist(Psionic). Even at it's strongest, it would only go up to 28.4% Defense(All).
Forcefields? 39% Defense(All) and 40% Resist(Toxic) from level 22 onwards.
Even Cold, a set that already is considered a better option than Forcefields, would grant more Defense; 31.2% Defense(Melee, Ranged, AoE, Lethal, Smashing, Energy, Negative) and 7.8% Defense(Cold, Fire, and Psionic), along with 70.2% Resist(Cold), 46.8% Resist(Fire), 31.2% Resist(Energy), and 20% Resist(Toxic). And that's all within a 40ft radius for Cold, compared to Forcefields 25ft radius.
There is the big difference that Evade's full defense value can effect the caster, while Forcefields and Cold are mostly limited to allies. Traps and Time both fully benefit from there +Defense powers, though. I would possibly consider splitting the difference and saying that maybe the bonuses (the ones tied to Intuition) from Evade, Advantage, and Precision only affect your allies. This would put it closer in line to the values that Traps and Time can get for themselves while still providing a higher buff for your allies with the bonus buffs.
Regarding the radius, 80ft might be a little big for a power that grants 15% Defense, but there is precedence for a Leadership-like toggle to have greater than 40ft radius. Leadership's toggles themselves are 60ft radius, as are those of the Arachnos Soldiers. Arachnos Widows' toggles are actually 80ft radius. At most, I would maybe reduce the radius to 60ft if 80ft seemed so extreme.
But overall, I would not consider the values of this set to be out of line. I try to put a lot of work in to the sets I suggest (which does in include a lot of research on City of Data) in order to make sure that I'm not making something too good for no reason.
Although, having said that I am thinking Commanding Shout and possibly Unnerve might be too good. *ponders*