PvP Ideas:

Just some thoughts:

1. Make it easy to get involved:

PvP isn't that easy to find. It isn't uncommon to have very little arena activity (crowded out by the computer generated tournaments) and few people in the zones. Therefore, an easier way to set up matches and facilitate PvP should be found.

I think the best solution would be to use the Team-Up teleporter technology to facilitate PvP matches. This would make PvP as easy to set up as a trial or TF, and would help give it a better avenue to bring in new players. I'd probably use the system outlined in my second idea. I'd set up the following options:

1 on 1
2 on 2
5 on 5
8 on 8
16 on 16

When players zone in, they would be in a blank environment. The PvP map would be chosen by clicking on glowies with an image of the map overhead, and the map with the most votes would be selected. In this same zone will be a store selling inspirations.

Obviously, something would also need to be done about level disparities. Which leads in my next section:

2. Redefine PvP by separating it from PvE entirely

Basically, we now have the technology to remove access to a characters powers and grant new powers. In PvE, this has been used to change characters into NPCs or as a way to allow certain types of travel powers. In PvP, I think it brings balance.

When a player enters new-PvP (obviously, allow options for traditional PvP), give them access to a variety of toggles, for different playstyles. When no toggle is on, the player is intangible and cannot attack. When the game begins, a player will be randomly swapped into a load-out if they have not selected one yet.

When a player activates the "blaster" toggle, they gain access to T1, T2, T3 level attacks, BU/Aim, and any other necessary blaster attack. Other options I'd consider would be controller, mm, support, tank, and stalker. Once a toggle is clicked, the character would become corporeal, but wouldn't be able to switch while the character is alive. When the character respawns, they will have 5 seconds to chose a new load-out.

This would have to be done right, of course. I'd create a NPC that would change the visual effects of the powers (ie, make the Blaster toggle shoot ice instead of fire), but there would be no inherent advantage to using one type of visual over another. All characters would get access to SJ, SS, and Fly, regardless of load-out.

In addition, I'd give some points for continued success at one particular "AT." Those points could be used to improve a blast set by increasing damage slightly, or reducing recharge, or adding a proc. Same for all the other styles of play. This would help give some progression and keep people coming back to play.

Now, the abilities of the various AT toggles still need to be set, but if done right it could allow for a sort of balanced Team Fortress style of combat. It could even be used for more intricate PvP events, like an infiltration event or bank heist.

Here's what I want from such a system:
1. Balance
Virtually impossible in the present system, fairly easy in the proposed system.
2. Speed
With the above balance, the there should be no need for speed suppression. This would make PvP more fun in my my opinion.
3. Intuitiveness
By reducing the number of available powers, we can make them simple and intuitive. The Blaster toggles deals damage at range, the control toggles does CC, the tank is survivable and can force aggro on himself, etc. We wouldn't need to have things like Flurry doing ridiculous damage, or diminishing returns.
4. Progression separate from PvE
A PvP player should not be forced to grind in PvE to be good at PvP, and a PvE player should not be forced to PvP to get enhancements for PvE.
5. Eventually, things like Capture the Flag or other more intricate PvP games
Think a mission where 4 villains are trying to rob a bank and 4 heroes are trying to stop them. If done right, this could be REALLY cool.

3. Remove intrusions to the PvE game

PvP doesn't need to annoy PvE players to survive. It should be its own entity, and attempts to attract PvEers might actually turn them off from the system. Therefore, remove any missions that send players to the PvP zones, and find a solution that doesn't force badgers into the zones, especially for accolades.

I'm not sure what should be done about PvP IOs, given the new system above. It is possible that they could just be bought on the same points system that allows PvPers to adjust their loadout abilities.

So, any thoughts about these ideas, specifically 1 and 2?

Hmmm. Admitting I've skimmed a bit:

1. Make it easy to find.

It *is* easy to find - there are four zones and an arena. However, the arena UI, at least last I saw of it, was... fairly nonintuitive and a bit of a bear to get around. So that needs to be tweaked, first and foremost.

I wouldn't argue with using the Team Up Teleporter... somehow. Say, options of "Watch for arena events and notify," "Watch for PVP zone events" (but not just "someone has entered" - maybe have an imbalance trigger the user can set, or a temporary "PVP zone alert" power that comes up.)

For 2 - and tied in with 3 - er... I just don't see that working.

In the first place, they can (and do) have separate PVE and PVP effects on powers. So there's no "annoyance" there.

Second... I mean, looking at #3... there are exactly zero missions that send players to the PVP zones. WAY back when they were introduced, you had to go into the zone for the PVP warzone liason. Those were finally moved *out* of the zone so if you didn't want to, you didn't have to enter them, period.

As far as badgers in the zones - the only thing I agree shouldn't be required are things tied to accolades (barring having PVP-active-only accolades, which don't exist now.) Other than that, the only thing "forcing" badgers into the zones are... the badgers. Even then, the zones are so *dead* that there's pretty much zero risk, and zero reason for them to complain.


Now for the biggie... the wholesale power replacement.

I get the idea behind it. (Actually suggested something similar in a dedicated zone for it years ago.) But here's the thing - these are *our characters.* A Defender isn't a 'healer,' for instance (just to take a possible replacement) and forcing my Trick Arrow defender to suddenly have Empathy powers and some generic buff and debuff means I'm *not going into that zone.* Forcing my fairly controller-y Dark Armor tank to suddenly just "be tough and hard to hit" guts the purpose I built that tank for (in PVE, admittedly) - so I'm no longer playing *that* character.

Part of the fun OF PVP pre-I13 (and, IMHO, pre-IOs) was that you couldn't just see "Oh, an <insert AT here>" and instantly know their capabilities. (in fact, if you'll notice IN PVP zones, the powers tab if you pull up info is missing.) You'd watch what they were doing and try to pick it up from there. (Part of the reason the "Suppress power effects" tailor option has no effect in PVP zone.) Plus there's the finding unusual combinations - yes, some people just build FOTMs, but if that's all they fight, something off the wall can really throw them.

As far as balance? The stance on it for a long time was quite simply "It isn't. It's balanced around being part of a team," and I find that 100% acceptable, since we don't have "Tank, Healer, DPS" - we've got a ton of different power combinations which, in a PVP zone, make every encounter unique.

Frankly, I think the worst thing (and that which will be the biggest problem for reclaiming PVP) is the introduction of IOs. On SOs - or even commons? There's a low entry point. You may have DOs slotted, you may not have as MUCH slotted as that level 50 - but it's a matter of leveling and getting to know your character. Now? Soft-cap this, proc that, recharge out the wazoo... there's a decided *price* to enter serious PVP, and a decided gap between the "casual" and "hardcore." (I say that as someone who still goes in on common IOs and fights if there's someone around - but the people I tend to fight seem to end up being either new or also highly casual, so this is more of an arena or high end issue. Not that I've found anyone in the zones in *months,* mind you.)

Of course the other issue is just that, IOs and everything else aside, there's a big barrier just from powers working differently in PVP than they do in PVE *anyway.* And that can be discouraging for someone to walk into.

See my Guides and Tutorials

You do know there are global channels as well as Arena Chat... right? These are tools which are already in game to help you find fellow pvp players.

As far as your idea... meh... it would not get me to go back to pvp. And I pvpd quite a lot for around 4 years.

You are asking for a lot of investment (code wise) for something that will not bring in any return financially.

Instead of going on and on about "fixes" to the mechanics; maybe what is left of the pvp community should band together and adapt (I mean hello it has been 3.5 years since Issue 13)...and learn to make the best use of the tools which are already in place. If you think the devs (rather ncsoft) are going to greenlight something which requires hundred of hours of coding and then testing... for absolutely no financial gain...you are mistaken. Pvp has proven time and time again in this game that it is not a financially lucrative aspect of CoH.

This isn't me being "mean" or anything like that...it is simply me being a realist. There is not enough pvpers to warrant the financial cost...nor produce any financial benefit for time spent on major upheavals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

memphis bill is right in the fact IOs did set a baseline to pvp, in hardcore pvp if you dont have a good IO build then you will pretty much never win

the things i personally dont like about pvp are: travel suppression and heal decay and the general lack of rewards for pvping (i know that wont change though way too easy to afk pvp farm)

i agree with him in the fact that i dont care for your changes either, an even easier way to just even the playing field would be to just disable all enhancements in a pvp zone and just leave it as options for arena to allow enhancements

is it just me, or does it sound like the OP is suggesting we turn PvP into DCUO?