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I don't know man.. I think having one pet doing constant critical damage is a whole lot different than having 6 pets doing critical damage together at the same time. Even if the uptime/downtime ratio is similar, the result of the damage output is quite different. The potential damage of 6 pets doing critical for 10s is really hard to balance, don't you think?|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Personally, I'd like to see Smoke Flash turn into a 60 ft PBAoE (ie. Supremacy range) that lasts for 6 seconds and has a recharge time of 90 seconds. It would affect all Ninja Pets AND SELF for the duration.
(10 / 6) * (90 / 30) = 5 So you get 1/5th the uptime, but can affect all 6 pets simultaneously (if they're in Supremacy range) AND YOURSELF with the existing effects. Only requires coding the 3 personal attacks in your Primary to deal critical damage while Smoke Flash is in effect (just like your Pets already do). |
I thought about aoe smoke flash. I think the current smoke flash isn't bad if Oni is better.
Synapse said smoke flash is one of the powers that he will need time to look into. He needs to work on all the dps comparison to see if smoke flash needs changes.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Well, after playing my Ninja/Time extensively, I think I would agree with most of this.
Increase their inherent defenses. Change the way they use their attacks.
I think Smoke Flash should either be made into a power that affects all of them in AoE fashion. Or, add Build Up as part of Smoke Flash. The Build Up effect would make 10 seconds of critical hits far more damaging and perhaps give Ninjas the distinction of being able to take out Bosses in fewer hits.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
Smoke Flash in */Ninjitsu for Stalkers is PBAoE. Why isn't the Ninja/* Mastermind version of Smoke Flash PBAoE also?
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Because Stalker doesn't get 100% critical for 10s? |
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Smoke Flash in */Ninjitsu for Stalkers is PBAoE. Why isn't the Ninja/* Mastermind version of Smoke Flash PBAoE also?
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One pet doing critical for 10s is a whole lot different from six pets doing critical for 10s. Yes, you can change the uptime/downtime ratio but the result is completely different. I am not sure if the dev is willing to deal with 6 ninja pets doing critical damage for 10s.
However, they can change it so it isn't 100% critical if it's pbaoe version. Maybe 30% chance? I am not against changing it to pbaoe version but it has to be tuned down from 100% critical. That's all.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Which is funny ... because Build Up styled powers, for all ATs, with only rare exceptions, are designed and built around 10 second buff times. AND ... to make things even funnier ... a Mastermind's Pets are deliberately designed around the notion that 2/3rds of the AT's damage is (potentially) sourced from the Pets themselves, while 1/3rd of the AT's damage is (potentially, but in practice, not really) sourced from the Mastermind's personal attacks. AND ... to put the cherry on top of the amusement ... that 2/3rds of the Mastermind AT's damage is split up among 6 individual Pets, who each individually throughput damage on a scale demonstrably weaker than a Defender (the benchmark for Low Damage Output) by a factor of ... how much?|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am not sure if the dev is willing to deal with 6 ninja pets doing critical damage for 10s.
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I'm sorry ... what was the problem again??
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Re: pbaoe smokeflash for mm. Were the radius the same as the stalker's (as opposed to supremacy range) I imagine that would be a good starting point for balance. 20ft vs. 60 fro =not too bad. Hell, even a 10 or 8 foot radius would be an improvement
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
...[I]t would be more proper to say this game is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly dying.
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And yet, BU is +dmg which only increases base damage, crits increase total damage, which a massive increase compared to BU.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Which is funny ... because Build Up styled powers, for all ATs, with only rare exceptions, are designed and built around 10 second buff times. AND ... to make things even funnier ... a Mastermind's Pets are deliberately designed around the notion that 2/3rds of the AT's damage is (potentially) sourced from the Pets themselves, while 1/3rd of the AT's damage is (potentially, but in practice, not really) sourced from the Mastermind's personal attacks. AND ... to put the cherry on top of the amusement ... that 2/3rds of the Mastermind AT's damage is split up among 6 individual Pets, who each individually throughput damage on a scale demonstrably weaker than a Defender (the benchmark for Low Damage Output) by a factor of ... how much?
I'm sorry ... what was the problem again?? |
The devs are not going to try that great of a increase unless the set was in truly dire straits damage-wise.
And I can assure you that while ninjas have their problems, lack of damage is not one that ranks high in the list of problem, far from it.
I would like fixes to their survivability and QoL before addressing any direct and dire changes to how much damage the set does overall.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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The concern is you are changing from one pet doing critical to six pets doing critical. The end result is a whole lot different. And also, I do not want all of my pets to lose aggro because those aggro are coming back to me. Remember Smoke Flash has Placate. If I am in a tough situation with several bosses, the last thing I want is to smoke flash all my pets and all the aggro comes to me. And if I use bodyguard mode right before smoke flash, my pets will suffer delay.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
I'm sorry ... what was the problem again?? |
It's just not that simple IMO.
And I don't completely agree with that Defender VS MM's damage output comparison because MM can do other things during that 10s. Defender can only choose to do one thing at a time - either support or attack. MM has the luxury of doing two things at once. I don't think it's as simple as adding "Build Up" to Ninja for 10s and call it balanced. And besides Damage is never Ninja's big problem.
I am not against making Smoke Flash better but it will require quite a bit of balancing. So far, I can agree to reducing endurance cost a bit PLUS 12s duration and maybe PLUS some minor +defense as the Ninja is elusive.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Personally, I'd like to see Smoke Flash turn into a 60 ft PBAoE (ie. Supremacy range) that lasts for 6 seconds and has a recharge time of 90 seconds. It would affect all Ninja Pets AND SELF for the duration.
(10 / 6) * (90 / 30) = 5
So you get 1/5th the uptime, but can affect all 6 pets simultaneously (if they're in Supremacy range) AND YOURSELF with the existing effects. Only requires coding the 3 personal attacks in your Primary to deal critical damage while Smoke Flash is in effect (just like your Pets already do).