... I wonder if I can improve this.
/em Crack Knuckles.
Quote:
Dread shinobi's staff fighter was a brute, not a scrapper. While not comparable to ss/fire or a TW, that is not far from average for a brute. Also, PS>SR>AS>SS is not the top chain at all.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Messing around in MIDS based on a build I think Test Rat or someone through together. It's looking like Stalkers will have the only reasonable single-target chain in the Staff world, as the DPA on the attacks outside of AS aren't that hot. Dark Shinobi said his purpled-out Staff scrapper on Test was only getting 198 dps
 In the build below: 1) Power Slice = Precise Strikes 2) Sweeping Strike = Guarded Spin 3) 10K cuts = eye of the storm 4) Dark Blast = Serpent's Reach 5) Ablating Strike = Sky Splitter 6) Vengeful = place holder for Dark Blast pre-req to Shadow Meld In theory this build has enough recharge, I think, to run PS>SR>AS>SS, which appears to be the top ST attack chain. The problem is there is nowhere to really slot -RES since Mercurial isn't a powerpick, and sticking a Glad Armor in EoTS may be a waste. Open to suggestions to proc it out more, etc. Not sure the Shield Wall +RES is really needed. Build has 45%+ S/L def, and with Shadow Meld up (15 sec downtime, up every 30 secs, 15 sec duration) it i-caps on S/L and Melee, and hits 45%+ on just about everything else. Why Shadow Meld? 1) I hate redraw; 2) endurance hopefully is handled by Energize (see Power Sink question below); and 3) in i-trials, Shadow Meld is a godsend. Base RES is 60%+ on S/L, 75% on energy, 50% on C/F, and 30%-35% on neg/psi with elec's toxic hole. Skipped Power Sink -- is it worth it? Could take in place of SuperSpeed. |
I would try to keep Power Sink.
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Quote:
Pssst. You should share the 'best chain' then if you know what's better.
|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Dread shinobi's staff fighter was a brute, not a scrapper. While not comparable to ss/fire or a TW, that is not far from average for a brute. Also, PS>SR>AS>SS is not the top chain at all.
I would try to keep Power Sink. |
Microcosm was saying that including attacks like Mercurial and Guarded Spin in the chain, even though they do lower DPA, can be good because they allow you to add -RES. MB with the achilles proc, and Guarded with the Fury of Glad proc.
He didn't say exactly which chain he thinks is best, but he suggested things like: MB-GS-AS-SS
His argument is that you should try to get AS / SS up as much as possible, so lower activation time attacks like MB can be good. He listed 4 variant chains but I don't know which he likes best.
Below is a rebuild that shows 10K Cuts as Guarded Spin, slotted with -RES and Armageddon. (Leaving the Oblits in EotS). Power Slice is presumably Mercurial, with +5'd Kinetic Combats, dmg proc, and -RES proc. If you want Power Sink, slot it in place of Super Speed -- looks like one +5'd end IO is enough, and would have a 22 sec recharge.
Micro, if you can extrapolate on the chains, that would be awesome.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1526;699;1398;HEX;| |78DA6594D96ED35010868F97B4244D68D23D5DD226DDB2BA0D70D38DAAD082509B9| |21204889BC84A0F6D5493444E2AC1259B8027E005586F7817B667E08AE512B185A9| |E74F13144BD6371ECFFCE73FF6D8993BEBDEB717EFAD0AC577DE32ABD57CAE665A0| |7D2EEDC366B87B66969828E4E3A83B891CF484B4A63FDD0B4F2E72C735756438D3B| |EBF2962C55A5B161C942CD2E16F26BF6EDB21DB854DA97B62CD58C46E0C996CB969| |1AB48B9EB73C20BC5BDFD5AB1B4D7ED5C6D4952B5ABFBC58AB7715DA19BC18D4AB1| |6034D6CA950FAD7CC6ACD6A47D7788ECC5E9BCEF1638EA2E91254474A1E6981D3BC| |C1357C003625A17A93A1D62A1D9A98A7EC5B9A3F631E73635874FA94681BAB2A23A| |39CF32B8C4F42E32C30BCCF42AF72E52AFE634D7352D42C1AC2EF41038CEEC08331| |F52AD8B6B5DAE4FDC7FF21DF89EE9FF087E60CE45998FDCFCB28E7A3B5FC3D31BE6| |D42BE6CC4BF005F89CB94CBD6E7874C3631C1E93F09884C7082DD2C5B54A57829F6| |40FB8443A3EE8F8D0DF07BD3EE80C4067856ABBB956740F5230A68B27940B600F01| |C1FBEAA9B3C781BFCCA13FE06F66EC17F32CF5F642AF37C57E14F2DACF7A5AFF557| |EFB93988E294CC514A642A3DA41781F84E761EC6118DE43F0FE99AC0559570FA679| |FDD92498020DF89B63AE92BF11D6D7472EF37C8D66C14D6628036E3375F234C63DE| |A1866338CD90CFB990F48771CCF6C7C86D79A88823130CE4C26D4FF662640FA11E8| |47A03B09DD49ACB746FAD378AED3A7347E87D417455F147569F4A7D1FF98FA12EC4| |B249C2FED8757080319A30BAB90D23CD4E7DDECEE8B87BE36E414BCC96FADB96BDC| |FBB53517E5BAEFCD9CAA4C702E06A69EB1FE887EFCC5D7479BB1D6F86FC43119714| |C460AFF9178B3F6A8957634DF9649B7654EB765CEB465B6DA3259FDF88F231427E3| |F60BA1C1F5CF01DA08E21B1EA7CB89AFB7C43B2DF1CD96F81F9CD2E962| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
When was 198 DPS when fully IOed out, bad? o.O
It's not. But then you forgot to mention he also had T4 Reactive going.
But Brutes DPS has never been all that with weapon sets generally, last I remember, as they don't make use of Gloom.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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Quote:
From City of Data http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...Staff_Fighting|
MB-GS-AS-SS MB-PS-AS-SS PS-GS-AS-SS MB-SR-AS-SS SR-GS-AS-SS |
MB = 1 sec cast
PS = 1.13 sec cast
SR = 1.77 sec cast
GS = 1.83 sec cast
SS = 2.83 sec cast
So if we assume that SS always lets AS recharge in time, ans we take Micro's word that we want to reduce the time of the other attacks before AS/SS so as to get AS/SS up as much as possible, yet also we want to include -RES, then:
MB-PS-AS-SS .. where MB-PS = 2.13 secs, and you can slot MB with -RES Achilles
Whereas
MB-SR = 2.77
MB-GS = 2.83
PB-GS = 2.96
SR-GS = 3.6
So the question is, how much of a difference in DPS is having AS/SS up faster -- MB-PS would be 0.64 sec faster than the next fastest, MB-SR
And how does two shots on -RES (MB-GS) compare in DPS terms over time given that it is 0.7 secs slower ... but in addition to two -RES chances it adds the armageddon purple proc to the chain. I'm assuming SS always has the Heca proc.
There is probably some slotting of MB (3 Acc/Dmg Hamis, 2 dmg procs, -RES proc) that makes it better. My build I've kept the 4 Kin Combats so i'd have to pick up 3.75% S/L elswhere (not sure).
The SR-GS variant he probably liked because it gives 2 purple procs (and maybe 1 other dmg proc in SR) along with the -RES in GS. But it is the longest variant: 1.47 secs longer than MB-PS, and 0.77 secs longer than MB-GS.
I'm a bit out of my depth here, trying to compare all these variables. Need Micro to jump back in, or Aracanaville, or Werner, or Combat lol.
I'll be back to explain how to make these calcs later. You guys know how to calculate avg -res right?
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I'm willing to believe (And will likely run) MB > PS > AS > SS. I'm not sure MB > GS > AS > SS is good enough to warrant it.
The singular -20% Proc is worth about... 4-5% damage overall. That is, MB > PS > AS > SS would be slightly better than PS > SR > AS > SS.
Or was it 14%? ugh. I can't remember. And that's if you keep the -20% perma, which is probably only really possible with both procs.
If you get lucky with MB on MB > PS > AS > SS, it's no doubt better (due to overall damage and speed) than PS > SR > AS > SS.
But unless you get extremely lucky with first-rotation double procs with MB > GS > AS > SS, I don't see it beating MB > PS > AS > SS (Also since GR is quite a bit slower than PS, and does roughly half it's base damage. Even with a -20% Res Proc, that is something to consider.)
Someone who actually bothers with the -RES proc averages can confirm or deny that.
MB>PS>AS>SS is indeed the top, though not by much.
I am confused by your statement about keeping the -res perma; if the proc were perma you would multiply your final damage by 1.2 (after enhancements and other procs).
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Quote:
I'd be curious "how much" better especially compared to MB>SR>AS>SS which I'm guessing is next best? (If not, what is?).|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
MB>PS>AS>SS is indeed the top, though not by much.
|
I ask because making room for both MB and PS in a build seems tight, whereas taking only MB would leave room for SR/GS/EotS/SS with not as many compromises (esp on my builds above).
I figure MB>SR might be OK because you get a higher DPA attack in SR plus also you get to slot the Apocalypse Proc and a 2nd damage proc in SR (vs with MB>PS, where the Heca purple proc is already probably loaded into SS and thus the MB/PS/AS/SS chain doesn't get another purple proc).
Quote:
That means, being lucky enough to keep at least one -20% Resistance Proc up on all times. Since it's a 20% chance to proc with a 10.5 duration, while not impossible? Also not entirely likely.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
MB>PS>AS>SS is indeed the top, though not by much.
I am confused by your statement about keeping the -res perma; if the proc were perma you would multiply your final damage by 1.2 (after enhancements and other procs). |
That said, yeah. I didn't think GS was worth it, even with a -RES proc of it's own. While -40% sounds good, the trade off didn't seem worth it.
That and PS has one of the best animations of the lot.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
I'd be curious "how much" better especially compared to MB>SR>AS>SS which I'm guessing is next best? (If not, what is?).
I ask because making room for both MB and PS in a build seems tight, whereas taking only MB would leave room for SR/GS/EotS/SS with not as many compromises (esp on my builds above). I figure MB>SR might be OK because you get a higher DPA attack in SR plus also you get to slot the Apocalypse Proc and a 2nd damage proc in SR (vs with MB>PS, where the Heca purple proc is already probably loaded into SS and thus the MB/PS/AS/SS chain doesn't get another purple proc). |
When you get down to it, AS and PS are where you're getting most of your mileage, and then the forced crits (and likely crits) of SS. SR is simply 'there', but it's also almost twice as slow as MB.
That means, in comparison to MB, you're waiting twice as long, in respect, to get to your Bread and Butters. That is why I think MB is superior to SR; SR has a little higher DPA (about 10 base?) and a superior proc for certain, but with twice the animation time.
MB also helps make up with it if you Heel Proc it. All in all, from an aesthetics point of view, I like this more.
A standard swipe, a fancy overhead smash, a... 'thrust' from AS, and then the coup de grace. It 'flows' better than the wind up of SR.
Quote:
Yeh not sure how to quantify it though. MB>PS is 0.64 seconds faster than MB>SR. Does the higher DPA of SR, plus the greater proc chance of the purple proc in SR (vs standard procs in PS), make up for the time difference?|
Originally Posted by Reppu
That means, being lucky enough to keep at least one -20% Resistance Proc up on all times. Since it's a 20% chance to proc with a 10.5 duration, while not impossible? Also not entirely likely.
That said, yeah. I didn't think GS was worth it, even with a -RES proc of it's own. While -40% sounds good, the trade off didn't seem worth it. That and PS has one of the best animations of the lot. It's the speed. When you get down to it, AS and PS are where you're getting most of your mileage, and then the forced crits (and likely crits) of SS. SR is simply 'there', but it's also almost twice as slow as MB. That means, in comparison to MB, you're waiting twice as long, in respect, to get to your Bread and Butters. That is why I think MB is superior to SR; SR has a little higher DPA (about 10 base?) and a superior proc for certain, but with twice the animation time. MB also helps make up with it if you Heel Proc it. All in all, from an aesthetics point of view, I like this more. A standard swipe, a fancy overhead smash, a... 'thrust' from AS, and then the coup de grace. It 'flows' better than the wind up of SR. |
I have to drop an attack to fit both MB & PS in my planned build. I'd prefer to keep SR (to have a ranged attack) if the ultimate difference in dps is quite small.
As I told granite in PM, those top 5chains are very close in dps, to the point that it doesn't really matter unless you go with the absolute best.
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Just an update.
I built the build above (with a few of the final powers moved around, and Power Sink in place of SS).
I am running a chain of MB (SBE Mako Lethal, -RES), SR (Apoc proc, SBE Decimation build-up), AS (ATO proc, SBE Mako Lethal), and SS (Heca proc, SBE mako lethal).
The SBE mako lethal procs are triggering it seems 100% in AS and SS, and close to 100 in MB. I wish they had a set with crushing damage procs on sale in the store.
Interestingly, the SBE Decimation build-up proc doesn't trigger that often in SR and only seems to have about a 5 second period where it is active. I am thinking I will get rid of it for the PVP toxic proc.
The chain is relatively smooth even through it appears a bit break-dancy with the footwork for SR being followed by AS.
More recovery is needed to run the chain seamlessly -- hitting energize or power sink kills dps -- on a pylon. Ageless or recovery serum. In general PVE play (outside of pylons for dps testing), no problems whatsoever.
I need to play around a bit more and see if I can bear giving up a ranged attack in SR for PS .... will make that call after I incarnate up and do some more dps testing.
My only real complaint is that GS (the cone) and EotS (the pbaoe) don't really seem to do that much damage, and they animate way slow. There's also some funky animation issues with SR and the AS (especially from hide). As stalkers don't get taunt inherent like brutes or tanks, and don't get a taunt aura, I see mobs running pretty consistently when I am fighting large groups.
Anyway, fun to play.
Messing around in MIDS based on a build I think Test Rat or someone through together. It's looking like Stalkers will have the only reasonable single-target chain in the Staff world, as the DPA on the attacks outside of AS aren't that hot. Dark Shinobi said his purpled-out Staff scrapper on Test was only getting 198 dps
In the build below:
1) Power Slice = Precise Strikes
2) Sweeping Strike = Guarded Spin
3) 10K cuts = eye of the storm
4) Dark Blast = Serpent's Reach
5) Ablating Strike = Sky Splitter
6) Vengeful = place holder for Dark Blast pre-req to Shadow Meld
In theory this build has enough recharge, I think, to run PS>SR>AS>SS, which appears to be the top ST attack chain. The problem is there is nowhere to really slot -RES since Mercurial isn't a powerpick, and sticking a Glad Armor in EoTS may be a waste.
Open to suggestions to proc it out more, etc. Not sure the Shield Wall +RES is really needed.
Build has 45%+ S/L def, and with Shadow Meld up (15 sec downtime, up every 30 secs, 15 sec duration) it i-caps on S/L and Melee, and hits 45%+ on just about everything else. Why Shadow Meld? 1) I hate redraw; 2) endurance hopefully is handled by Energize (see Power Sink question below); and 3) in i-trials, Shadow Meld is a godsend.
Base RES is 60%+ on S/L, 75% on energy, 50% on C/F, and 30%-35% on neg/psi with elec's toxic hole.
Skipped Power Sink -- is it worth it? Could take in place of SuperSpeed.
The various accolades could push HP to ~1600, but base here is 1357 or so (sad panda).
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Power Slice -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Dam%(9), GS-%Dam(46)
Level 1: Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), SW-ResDam/Re TP(48)
Level 2: Sweeping Strike -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(25), Oblit-Dmg(42)
Level 4: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(5), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 6: Assassin's Blades -- SStalkersG-Rchg/Hide%(A), SStalkersG-Dmg/Rchg(15), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SStalkersG-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), GS-%Dam(48)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-Build%(13), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(39), GSFC-ToHit(39)
Level 10: Static Shield -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 14: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(21), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 16: Grounded -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 18: One Thousand Cuts -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(23), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Knock%(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Dark Blast -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg(40), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), GJ-Dam%(50)
Level 28: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(29), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(29), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 32: Ablating Strike -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Hectmb-Dam%(45), GS-%Dam(48)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Power Surge -- RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam(45)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 44: Vengeful Slice -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Shadow Meld -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(42), P'Shift-End%(46)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run