Beast..dark or time to many decisions!

So i keep wrestling in my head which to play dark seems to have better numbers time doesn't have anchors I plan to run up and use provoke while debuffing holding agro for my pets to chew on.. but i just can't deiced which i want to use! Unfortunately i only have one slot to play with. Both secondaries are SOOO close in performance it is a hard call.

Is it my imagination or is dark's heal much slower than times?

Is there anything truly skip-able in time? unlike my other MMs im really drawn to the BM attack powers ( except swarm that can be skipped IMO). I created a BM/Dark build it is some where in the build workshop. At the moment I am trying to work out a /time build not doing to good at it i have to confess.

Some advice would be most appreciated from some of the more expert MM players. My very first MM and very first character was a Bots/pain and she is still my main and i love playing her but i rather not go through the trials i did with her, Not even sure the number of respects i did learning not a combination for a brand new player!

Some info: I solo a lot but when i team i like to be able to contribute something AVs and GMs are not really important.. i have a bots/traps and Ill/rad for when i get that urge.

Gah now i am thinking about traps too.. so many decisions makes me sad!

Dark and Time are among the best MM secondaries in the game. Dark is a heavy debuff set, you floor your opponents tohit, slash their damage, and remove any damage resistance as part of your opening attack. On top of that, you have some of the best control powers outside of a Controller/Dominator set, which is great for locking down a spawn while your henchmen clean up. Meanwhile, Time is a mixed buff and debuff set. You make your pets stronger and your enemies weaker. Like dark, it has a lot of powerful options, but it trades a lot of dark's control powers for more buffs and debuffs. This means that overall, Time is a little more powerful but a little less flexible, while Dark will take a little more time to finish off a spawn but will rarely find itself in a situation where it has to retreat and regroup. It's a matter of opinion, I prefer Dark's better hard controls to Time's more glass-cannon style, but Time will play faster in a typical scenario. Both are top notch secondaries.

As for the heals, Dark's heal is much faster than Time's, not slower (8 vs 18 second cooldowns). Twilight Grasp (Dark's PBAoE heal) also heals for a lot more than Temporal Mending (Time's PBAoE heal). The difference is, Temporal Mending gets a heal over time effect (which is still less overall than Twilight Grasp's burst heal), and heals more when the target is Accelerated (like, say, from a previous application of Temporal Mending). Dark's healing comes with a -acc debuff that stacks with the other -acc powers in the set. Both are solid powers, but Twilight's Grasp is generally better from a numbers standpoint. Twilight's Grasp does have the drawback of requiring a target to be used (meaning you can't heal your minions outside of combat), but I've found that isn't really an issue since one application is about enough to heal a henchman to full. Your experiences may differ from mine though, I have a Necro/Dark MM so all of my pets have limited healing on their own.

The only arguably skippable power in Time is Time Stop, though I wouldn't recommend it. Being able to hold a troublesome enemy (like one with lots of AoE) is very useful for a MM. On the other hand, Dark only has one skippable power, Black Hole (two if we count the single target hold Petrifying Gaze), so either way you're stuck taking most of your secondary. Considering that you can avoid most pool powers except for Leadership and you don't need an epic/patron pool as badly as, say, a Blaster, you shouldn't be too tight on powers. Maybe you should post your theoretical build so we could see where the problem is.

Both sets are solid for solo, teams, or AV's/GM's. Masterminds are the kings of boss fights, a well played MM is like having an entire team in one character. Ultimately, you should take the one you like more. Whichever set is closer to your preferred playstyle will be more fun to you. City of Heroes isn't a big min/max game, as long as you slot intelligently and take a reasonable power selection you'll do just fine with any set combination.

wow thanks..Dark is looking like the serious winner from what you have said.. for now though i only have one build and that's /dark...to be hoenst im not evne sure where to begin with /time right now im looking over some other builds both controller and mastermind trying to see how there slotted .

In this build i tried to go with survivability taking -to hit where i could

I will whip up a /time build i am debating that i may even not take a travel power and just rely on my rocket board till i can get a jet pack maybe even go ahead and bite the bullet and buy ninja run



Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Marissa Fox: Level 50 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Beast Mastery
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Wolves -- BldM'dt-Acc(A), BldM'dt-Dmg(3), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Acc/Heal(7), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(9), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(11)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Call Hawk -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(17), SipInsght-ToHitDeb(17), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(19)
Level 6: Train Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(11), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(21), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 12: Summon Lions -- SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg(A), SvgnRt-Dmg/EndRdx(23), SvgnRt-Acc/EndRdx(25), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), SvgnRt-Acc(27), SvgnRt-PetResDam(27)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFtn-EndRdx(31), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 18: Fortify Pack -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 20: Fearsome Stare -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(34), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(34), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 22: Howling Twilight -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(23), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(36), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(36), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(37)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Summon Dire Wolf -- S'bndAl-Dmg(A), EdctM'r-Acc/EndRdx(39), EdctM'r-Dmg/EndRdx(39), EdctM'r-Dmg(40), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(40), EdctM'r-PetDef(40)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 30: Provoke -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(33), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(33), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(45), Mocking-Rchg(45)
Level 32: Tame Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Call Ravens -- ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(42), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(42), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(43), ShldBrk-DefDeb(43)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(45), Nictus-Acc/Heal(46), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(46), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Assault -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(50), ToHit-I(50)
Level 49: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), EndMod-I(15)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 2% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 2% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 2% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 2% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 2% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 2% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 2% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 2% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 5% Defense
• 13.44% Defense(Smashing)
• 13.44% Defense(Lethal)
• 8.13% Defense(Fire)
• 8.13% Defense(Cold)
• 1.88% Defense(Energy)
• 1.88% Defense(Negative)
• 9.06% Defense(Melee)
• 3.75% Defense(Ranged)
• 8.75% Defense(AoE)
• 8.55% Max End
• 60% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 10% Enhancement(Heal)
• 58.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 18% FlySpeed
• 60.24 HP (7.5%) HitPoints
• 22% JumpHeight
• 22% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Confused) 7.75%
• MezResist(Held) 12.7%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 7.2%
• MezResist(Sleep) 7.75%
• MezResist(Stun) 9.4%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 5%
• 10.5% (0.18 End/sec) Recovery
• 30% (1 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 10% Resistance(Smashing)
• 12.5% Resistance(Lethal)
• 13.78% Resistance(Fire)
• 13.78% Resistance(Cold)
• 10% Resistance(Energy)
• 10% Resistance(Negative)
• 10% Resistance(Toxic)
• 10% Resistance(Psionic)
• 18% RunSpeed
• 4% XPDebtProtection

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Its a tough choice between /Dark and /Time on any MM build. /Time, in my opinion, only has ONE skippable power is Time Stop and MAYBE Temporal Selection. I really hesitate to drop either however as that's the only hold you get in the /Time set (other than chance to hold) and Temporal Selection on your T3 pet is pretty handy. For /Dark, I see two skippable powers, three if you really had to: Howling Twilight, Black Hole and Fluffy.

Yes, I said Fluffy. Do I want to drop him? No I don't. But I'd do so if I found my other primary attacks doing enough stacking to matter. Not sure yet. Black Hole almost everyone skips (with good reason for an MM IMO) and Howling Twilight, even when used as a Stun, is just "meh" in my opinion. I'd rather use Fearsome as my opener instead.

/Time really begs for the Mace Mastery pool so you can grab PowerBoost and the Shield, while /Dark gives you more flexibility in epic/villain pool choices in your 40's.

It is very hard to beat the +DEF you can obtain with a well-slotted /Time MM however. Softcapping everything but PSI for yourself is stupid simple to do with Perma Powerboosted Farsight. Oh and with /Time, you can ignore the Presence Pool for Tankerminding. Times Juncture generates more than sufficient aggro to pull the alpha onto yourself, and dropping Distortion Field at your feet once you've done so keeps them from leaving.

Ok here is a quick and VERY dirty BM/time i am so not happy with the slotting or the level which i slotted them or even the levels i took some of the powers but here it is, and after reading Crysys's post i could drop provoke in favor of powerboost

I have to admit time does look fun!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Marissa Fox type2: Level 50 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Beast Mastery
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Summon Wolves -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Dmg(7), BldM'dt-Acc(9)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(11), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(13), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(15), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(21)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(11)
Level 4: Time's Juncture -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(13), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(15), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(17), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(19)
Level 6: Train Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Call Hawk -- SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-ToHitDeb(21), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(25), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(46), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Dct'dW-Rchg(46)
Level 12: Summon Lions -- BldM'dt-Acc(A), BldM'dt-Dmg(17), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(19), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(23), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(25), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27)
Level 14: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(33)
Level 18: Fortify Pack -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 22: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(34)
Level 24: Call Ravens -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(36), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(40), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Summon Dire Wolf -- S'bndAl-Build%(A), S'bndAl-Dmg(31), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), EdctM'r-Dmg(34), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(36), EdctM'r-PetDef(36)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 32: Tame Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(37), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(42), ToHit-I(42)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Provoke -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(50), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(50), Mocking-Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(43), EndMod-I(45)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 5% Defense
• 8.13% Defense(Smashing)
• 8.13% Defense(Lethal)
• 8.75% Defense(Fire)
• 8.75% Defense(Cold)
• 8.75% Defense(Energy)
• 8.75% Defense(Negative)
• 4.06% Defense(Melee)
• 10% Defense(Ranged)
• 11.88% Defense(AoE)
• 3.6% Max End
• 47% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 8% Enhancement(Heal)
• 62.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 3% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)
• 3% Enhancement(FlySpeed)
• 3% Enhancement(RunSpeed)
• 3% Enhancement(JumpHeight)
• 4% FlySpeed
• 63.25 HP (7.88%) HitPoints
• 8% JumpHeight
• 8% JumpSpeed
• MezResist(Confused) 5%
• MezResist(Held) 7.75%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 5%
• MezResist(Sleep) 5%
• MezResist(Stun) 8.3%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 11.6%
• 15% (0.25 End/sec) Recovery
• 56% (1.87 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 3.78% Resistance(Fire)
• 3.78% Resistance(Cold)
• 4% RunSpeed
• 2% XPDebtProtection

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Howling Twilight is a great power, and is one of the very few powers (only other I can think of is the Barrier incarnate) that is an AoE rez. Also an AoE stun, it can turn a team wipe into a win. Fluffy is the source of quite a bit of -tohit. I would sooner drop Paralyzing Gaze than either of these.

That said I agree with what you said about Time, and personally much prefer it to Dark, for reasons I've stated many times.

Howling Twilight also offers some nice -regen.

I went with /Time mostly because I already had a Thugs/Dark I loved, and hadn't tried /Time on a MM. My other /Time character I just havn't been playing much so I wanted to give the set more love. Both seem like great choices. I like it so far, though with all the stuff talking about "boosted damage" in BM it seems like it doesn't really do much damage.
I didn't know you could perma Farsight, good to know.

I don't think I could skip Fluffy. He's just so useful! He's good at keeping some healing up without any fuss, and does some other nice debuffs to help you out. I've always thought its nuts MMs get just one set that allows them to keep the controller pet, and its one of the best controller pets.

At level 22, I feel /Time and /Dark are equally as strong. Time Stop is useful because if the boss suffers from Time Crawl, you can hold him in one hit. That's a mag 4 hold!

Time Stop is the best secondary hold in the game IMO. It even has -regen. /Dark's ST hold is crappy but it's useful.

I find myself taking all /Time's powers.

/Dark at least has one power that I'll never take - Blackhole!