To Slot Agility or Cardiac...


Dogma

 

Posted

...that is the question.

For my Elect Armor/EM tanker, I slotted Agility for the endurance modification with the anticpation of slotting the T-4 Agility Core Paragon for its rather large endurance modifications rating.

Since I am using 3 sets of Performance Shifter sets, I am thinking going with agility will go hand in hand with PS, especially since I am using 4 PS procs.

However, I still have my eye on Cardiac for controlling endurance head on with the reduction capabilities of Cardiac.

This build is far different from my SS/WP brute or WP/DS tank as they are not endurance pigs as my EA/EM tanker is.

Anyone have any guidance either way? Thanks.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.

 

Posted

Cardiac can be useful for Elec Armor, for the bonus resists (somewhat less important now, with the ATO proc) and to free you from using Power Sink to manage endurance, which lets you use it primarily as a sapping/aggro tool.

Still, I'd rather have Agility. Endmod/def/recharge is cool.


 

Posted

If your main concern is endurance reduction, you could also consider vigor for the additional acc/heal. I've changed my cardiac slots in for vigor on my guys that used to use cardiac.

Agility is a good option too though if you can make use of the def/recharge.


 

Posted

I honestly can't fathom how you're having such end woes on an Elec tank. 4 Perf Shifter Procs. You also have Phys Per.. You've got the Numi +/+. And you still think you need to add in the Miracle +Recovery *and* grab an alpha based mainly on how it affects your blue bar based on either lessening end usage or upping your end recovery.... What?!

Forgive me, but... Did you take Energize and Power Sink? Are the slotted at all? Do you have any End Reduction slotting in any of your attacks and/or toggles?

Because if the answers are all 'Yes' I can't imagine you'd feel any need for more blue bar control.


 

Posted

Not intending to punt here but I recommend you test it on your personal build and playstyle. You will be losing a lot of end mitigation but I believe that for most toons, agility can replace cardiac with no ill effects to end consumption.

Be sure to pay attention to the secondary boosts. Depending on your power choices, the res buffs will be more helpful on EA than will the def buffs. However, if you've taken things like maneuvers and CJ and stealth, you may get a comprable jump in def that will offset the loss of res. This can be measured with mids if you've not done that yet.

Recharge is the secondary buff that I like the most out of agility... all toons can use more recharge.


Badge-Hunter: @Dogma
CIT: @Dogma
XFire: BrckaLo
Playfire: BrckaLo
GamerDNA: CoHDogma

 

Posted

I am too lazy to grind alpha again but I think some of my toons should enjoy Agility more than Cardiac.

Range toons should probably still enjoy Cardiac because it has good +20% range.

I think if you are mostly melee, you can probably get better use of Agility. The +resistance from Cardiac seems too small for my taste.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Well, for Tanker Elec Armor, the +resist from Cardiac made capped S/L resist obtainable. But you can get that pretty easily now anyway, with the ATO proc.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
I honestly can't fathom how you're having such end woes on an Elec tank. 4 Perf Shifter Procs. You also have Phys Per.. You've got the Numi +/+. And you still think you need to add in the Miracle +Recovery *and* grab an alpha based mainly on how it affects your blue bar based on either lessening end usage or upping your end recovery.... What?!

Forgive me, but... Did you take Energize and Power Sink? Are the slotted at all? Do you have any End Reduction slotting in any of your attacks and/or toggles?

Because if the answers are all 'Yes' I can't imagine you'd feel any need for more blue bar control.
Alone while soloing, I'm not having much of a problem with End per se. However, when I'm teaming with my best friend, his Time/Bots MM really over boosts my recharge and I am bashing away like a speed freak. Thus goes the endurance. I confirmed this last night after experiencing it against Kronos the night before. This is especially noticable when fighting enemies 2 levels above my own (52) or GMs, endurance vaporizes quickly. Basically, I'm trying to build him to accommodate the effects that TM does to my character. If I can do that, endurance will never be an issue.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.

 

Posted

So one Performance Shifter Proc is as good as Stamina?


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

My ss/elec brute prefers cardiac. Even with the ability go leech endurance, I need the direct end reduction. Also, some of my oblit and other set slotting almost requires it. Running 9 toggles is a bear. Plus I prefer having the luxury to leech foes as an attack of sorts, rather than feeling obligated to activate it so that I dont pass out.

Lewis


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
My ss/elec brute prefers cardiac. Even with the ability go leech endurance, I need the direct end reduction. Also, some of my oblit and other set slotting almost requires it. Running 9 toggles is a bear. Plus I prefer having the luxury to leech foes as an attack of sorts, rather than feeling obligated to activate it so that I dont pass out.

Lewis
After respecting again yesterday, the changes I made took care of END issues. What is important is I now can run with my sprint on and not worry about burning through endurance. Before with all toggles on, I consumed 2.21 pnts/sec. Now, it's 1.71 pnts/sec. Alternatively, I increased my recovery from 3.5 to 3.7 /sec. Now Agility is proving its worth. I suspect by the time I get to T-4 endurance won't be an issue again or so I hope that's the case.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.

 

Posted

Thats cool. We probably have different thresholds for tolerable end consumption. I think I have higher recovery than you and less end consumption, without cardiac, and I still prefer it.

I have a miracle, numina, a perf proc, slotted stamina, and physical perfection, with good endurance reduction in my powers AND access to the elec armor power which let me leech endurance. Even with all that, I couldnt live without cardiac.

But I am sure others would be fine with agility.

Lewis


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
Thats cool. We probably have different thresholds for tolerable end consumption. I think I have higher recovery than you and less end consumption, without cardiac, and I still prefer it.

I have a miracle, numina, a perf proc, slotted stamina, and physical perfection, with good endurance reduction in my powers AND access to the elec armor power which let me leech endurance. Even with all that, I couldnt live without cardiac.

But I am sure others would be fine with agility.

Lewis
Originally, I had slotted 5 Perf Shifters including the proc in Electric armor and 4 in Power Sink. I reduced Electric armor to 2 (Proc and End Mod) and 3 on Power Sink (Proc, End Mod, End Mod & Accuracy) and Energized by 1. I have 4 slotted in Stamina, including the proc.

I reduced health to three, Regen proc, Numnia’s, & Miracle. I used the six available slots putting 2 for a total of 6 in Barrage & Energy Punch slotted Mako in both removing Kinetic Combat because it sucked performance wise. I added a fourth slot to Tough and one more Impv Armor for the 2.25% increase in recovery and 1 more LoG (Def-End) for Maneuvers and finally, added 1 to Phy Pef Numnia's Heal/End.

Lastly, since I already had Absolute Amazement slotted in Whirling Hands, I converted MoT into superior. I increased my regen remained the same +24% with Numnia, hit points went up from 2400 to 2448 and so did my recovery as my End usage dropped. Once I get Task Force Commander and Portal Jockey accolade powers, I expect that will help even more.

Time will tell if going with Agility was the correct move. However, if Cardiac is required, I can always change out Agility for it. Only time will tell. So far, after some intense fighting during Maria Jenkins' missions, I did not have any endurance issues I experienced before my last respec. Currently, I believe I have 2.6 billion invested in my tank. I want to add one more purple set Hecatomb to ET then I believe I am done.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.

 

Posted

If you aren't capped on it, 2 Numina's in health net you more regen than the tissue proc.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Hextor View Post
If you aren't capped on it, 2 Numina's in health net you more regen than the tissue proc.
Yeah, I know. However, I had to give up a slot there to slot others that I needed add too.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.

 

Posted

I've said it every time Cardiac comes up in the forums:

Check out Vigor - you get the same end cost as Cardiac Radial but it might give you more benefits outside of that, depending on your character.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
I've said it every time Cardiac comes up in the forums:

Check out Vigor - you get the same end cost as Cardiac Radial but it might give you more benefits outside of that, depending on your character.
I believe Agility is actually best suited for my character's build. Since I have a number of Performance Shifter sets (3), Agility compliments them. Since slotting agility (now at teir-2) and my last respect, I have had no issues with endurance. Matter of fact, I can confidently run with sprint on with no concerns. I suspect when I obtain tier-4, I'll be able to use Power Sink more as a weapon draining endurance than needing it. Or so I hope.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.