Range enhancements in ST attacks will increase the range of the attack by the enhancement percent.
Range enhancements in Targetted AoE attacks will increase the range you can be from the initial target, but will not increase the range of the actual AoE effect.
Range enhancements in cones increase the distance the cone will travel. However, this has the side effect of creating a large area of effect. The cone angle will not increase (a 45 degree cone will stay a 45 degree cone). However, because the cone is travelling a longer distance from you, it will increase the width at the far end of the cone (since the angle stays the same).
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Think how a cone looks
Ok your the single point both lines come to and your attack area coverage is what's inside the two lines. Now imagine if you keep extending those two lines you actually get a bigger area coverage. Range enhancements are good in cones.
However, don't most cone attacks have a limited number of targets that can/will be affected? Like... 5? I get that the size of the 'splash' at the end of a range-enhanced cone is larger, but you're still limited by how many can be damaged/KB'ed/held... And won't any enemy that you Hit, but don't Affect with that cone also be aggroed to come and stomp you?
Be Well!
Fireheart
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Yes to all of this.
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Originally Posted by Fireheart
However, don't most cone attacks have a limited number of targets that can/will be affected? Like... 5? I get that the size of the 'splash' at the end of a range-enhanced cone is larger, but you're still limited by how many can be damaged/KB'ed/held... And won't any enemy that you Hit, but don't Affect with that cone also be aggroed to come and stomp you?
Be Well! Fireheart |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
So, you're saying that it's just the numbers in the detailed info display that are wrong? For example:
This cone has actually a power range and an effect area of 49.2 feet, even though it's listed as having an effect area of 40 feet?
10joy
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Originally Posted by Fireheart
However, don't most cone attacks have a limited number of targets that can/will be affected? Like... 5? I get that the size of the 'splash' at the end of a range-enhanced cone is larger, but you're still limited by how many can be damaged/KB'ed/held... And won't any enemy that you Hit, but don't Affect with that cone also be aggroed to come and stomp you?
Be Well! Fireheart |
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Yes to all of this.
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How many targets a cone hits depends on the cone. For a Dark/Dark Defender, Tentacles and Nightfall have a max of 10 while Fearsome Stare is 16.
Damage based cones are balanced around hitting 5 targets usually with regard to damage v. endurance v. recharge+casting time.
Since most foes are on the same plane as the caster one can figure out the planar area of effect with simple geometry. The area of a 360 degree circle is pi * r^2. A 45 degree segment is just a ratio of 45/360 of the circle which equals 1/8. So, the area of a 45 'cone' (just on your plane) is 1/8(pi*r^2).
So, if Nightfall has a range of 60' and 45 degrees, then it covers an area of 1,414 square feet.
If you put 3 Range IOs in it, the range goes from 60 feet to 95 feet (a post-ED increase of 58.5% on Schedule B). And the new area of effect is 3,544 square feet, a 150% increase in AoE.
Of course, that's just on your plane. If the foes are on stairs or flying, then you can to the math with the area segment of a sphere. I'll leave that as an exercise for the dear reader.
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How 'real numbers' are displayed have been set up by the GUI interface coder to pull data from the core mechanics and display it nicely. Sometimes the display doesn't get displayed so nicely.|
Originally Posted by Tenjoy
This cone has actually a power range and an effect area of 49.2 feet, even though it's listed as having an effect area of 40 feet?
10joy |
Obviously from that pic, the range has been enhanced from 40 to 49 feet. And the Power Range field had been coded to show the base range and its current boosted range. The Effect Area field hasn't been coded to show current range based on boosts and is just showing the base range.
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So what part of Fireheart's post is "no"? Cones are target limited, despite size? Yes. Enemies are aggro'd despite being hit? Yes, though this is mostly due to how the AI works, and not because of the power.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
No to some of it.
How many targets a cone hits depends on the cone. For a Dark/Dark Defender, Tentacles and Nightfall have a max of 10 while Fearsome Stare is 16. Damage based cones are balanced around hitting 5 targets usually with regard to damage v. endurance v. recharge+casting time. Since most foes are on the same plane as the caster one can figure out the planar area of effect with simple geometry. The area of a 360 degree circle is pi * r^2. A 45 degree segment is just a ratio of 45/360 of the circle which equals 1/8. So, the area of a 45 'cone' (just on your plane) is 1/8(pi*r^2). So, if Nightfall has a range of 60' and 45 degrees, then it covers an area of 1,414 square feet. If you put 3 Range IOs in it, the range goes from 60 feet to 95 feet (a post-ED increase of 58.5% on Schedule B). And the new area of effect is 3,544 square feet, a 150% increase in AoE. Of course, that's just on your plane. If the foes are on stairs or flying, then you can to the math with the area segment of a sphere. I'll leave that as an exercise for the dear reader. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Was kind of wondering this myself.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So what part of Fireheart's post is "no?"
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Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So what part of Fireheart's post is "no"? Cones are target limited, despite size? Yes. Enemies are aggro'd despite being hit? Yes, though this is mostly due to how the AI works, and not because of the power.
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| However, don't most cone attacks have a limited number of targets that can/will be affected? Like... 5? |
Also, enemies that are hit won't agro back if the attack is a mez or a debuff that makes them miss, or kills them outright. The ones that aren't hit will agro onto you, true, but that would happen if you single targeted just one foe in a spawn and has nothing to do with cones.
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I was always under the impression that the cone affect caps were:
- 3 to 5 for melee cones
- regular AOE cap of 16 for ranged (primarily) damage cones
- 10 for ranged damage+control cones
Of course, I can't rationalize Fearsome Stare's 16, but I never really thought about it.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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I was interpreting his/her "Like...5" part as an e.g., not an i.e., but I could be mistaken. Basically, it seemed like Fireheart knew that cones had different numbers, and was just throwing one of them out there. Cones do have target limits, which was the main thrust of that question.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The "like... 5" part. Only melee cones have such a small limitation, and they can't be enhanced in range, anyway. Most ranged cones are 2 to 3 times larger in the max target.
Also, enemies that are hit won't agro back if the attack is a mez or a debuff that makes them miss, or kills them outright. The ones that aren't hit will agro onto you, true, but that would happen if you single targeted just one foe in a spawn and has nothing to do with cones. |
The second part is mainly semantics. If you target an enemy in a group, throw down the cone, and you miss any of them, they'll aggro onto you. If you kill or mez them, they're still aggro'd onto you, they just won't shoot because they're mezzed, or if they're dead due to damage. But you were still on their aggro list, regardless. Whether it's due to the AI or due to the cone doesn't really matter in terms of playing the game, since their behavior is the same.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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There's no simple and consistent rule for target caps, that I've ever noticed. Some melee cones cap at 10, some at 5, some at 3. Ranged cones seem to usually be 10, but not always. The target cap seems to be decided by "how strong an attack do we want this power to be" (Crowd Control: very strong, Piercing Rounds: not very strong) more than "what type of power is this". That could easily be reading more intent than there really is, though.
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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
I was always under the impression that the cone affect caps were:
- 3 to 5 for melee cones - regular AOE cap of 16 for ranged (primarily) damage cones - 10 for ranged damage+control cones Of course, I can't rationalize Fearsome Stare's 16, but I never really thought about it. |
Hi, everybody,
I'm currently trying to understand what exactly is improved by slotting range enhancements in an attack power. For single-target attacks, the effect seems pretty straightforward. Multi-target attacks are not as easy, though.
It seems that slotting range in a targeted AoE attack does not improve the effect's radius but only allows me to choose a target that is further away from my location. For example, Explosive Blast is listed as having a range of 80 feet with an effect radius of 15 feet, so it's effect will go off in a circular area with a diameter of 30 feet centered around my chosen target, which needs to be closer than 80.01 feet for the power to work. Increasing the power's range enables me to fire it from, say, 100 feet away, but the power would still affect a circle with a radius of 15 feet. Good to know.
Now it gets tricky. What about cones? Slotting a range enhancement into Energy Torrent again seems to increase the distance to my target at which I'm able to use the power. But just like with TAoEs, the area of effect size is not changed! The detailed power information still lists Energy Torrent's effect area with its unchanged original values. Now, does that mean that if I fire the power at a group of enemies at (enhanced) maximum range, I can be absolutely certain that I won't actually damage any of them?! This can't be right... can it?
I vaguely remember that there were some bug reports when cone size enhancements were merged into range enhancements, but surely such a bug would have been fixed by now, wouldn't it? (Maybe the display just shows the wrong values for the cone's area size?) Are range enhancements in cone powers effectively worthless, or worse?
Thank you all for any information on this,
10joy