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Assault Rifle/Energy|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Personally, I keep failing at Blasters. But, beaten and bruised, I keep coming back. So, here I go again. All of my personal research indicates that Blasters are designed as Blappers from the ground up. YMMV. But I am going to ask for some help and see if I cannot bring my concept into the Cities.
Forget AoE. Forget survivability. Forget everything. (I may even give up on my anti-weapon rule) Forget it all. Except. RANGE. What Primaries (and secondaries) provide the best pure (very long) Ranged options for Blasting, and why? And by how much 10%, 50%? |
Assault Rifle's tier 1/2 attacks have higher than normal range: 90 and 100 feet instead of the normal 80. And Energy Manipulation has Boost Range which can be made perma and boosts range by about 60%. So AR/Eng could hit targets with its tier 1 and 2 attacks at between 143 and 159 feet, which is basically sniper range.
Slot enough recharge, and you would have the ability to open with a snipe, then continue hitting the targets with single target shots at very long range. Slotting Cardiac or Intuition will get you an additional 20% range, which brings you up to an effective range of 160 feet+, double the range of normal blaster attacks.
That's going for maximum range without having to resort to range slotting. The other thing you need to do is deliver effective damage at that range. My Energy Blaster slots a lot of global recharge *and* slots the Force Feedback +rech procs. The net result is that I can deliver an almost continuous attack stream with Power Bolt, Power Blast, and Explosive Blast at 80 feet. You might be able to do better with Electric Blast because Ball Lightning activates faster than Explosive Blast, and you might be able to do better with Psychic Blast which has a number of good DPA 80 foot ranged attacks: Telekinetic Blast in particular has excellent DPA at range.
Of the three, Telekinetic Blast has the best shot at high single target damage, Electric Blast has the best shot at overall damage with the faster AoE, and Energy Blast has the best shot at keeping the targets at range with knockback.
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The Blaster is as Im sure you know by now a highly aggressive AT. Like scrappers they are destined to become great or fall far shart of the standard created by the best of the breed.
Like any warrior caste AT, they have 3 considerations when building.
Damage: This one is the easy part for blasters, they are at thier core heavy DPS. Virtually any combination of sets can let a blaster do damage. However just doing damage as I am sure your aware by now if it seems like you often struggle, isnt enough to keep you alive,
Damage Mitigation: This has alot of options and factors. Some favor def soft capping, some favor dmg res through various pools and sets. I feel its good to have a mix. Its easy to gain more then a 50% smash/lethal res, this is common dmg and will see ALOT of use helping to reduce the dmg of those hoardes you seek to pit your might against. Ranged Def is my number 1 def concern.
Self Recovery: Its no secret those sets for scrapper/tank types that have self heals and end recovery are typically alot better off then those that are pure defense for example.
Sadly few sets for blasters offer options for self heals, we have one in dark prime, and one in mental 2ndary( Great combo for a modern power set blaster btw) If you have no weapon sets then using the heal pool for self heal isnt out of the question but unless your going for a team centric build then wasting a power on heal other is reall not worth it.
Id suggest a dark/mental if your looking for a serious solo blaster.
Dark can be slotted for one of the strong global recharge to hit debuff sets to 4 parts. leaving 2 slots for procs or the like. powers like drain psyche thrive on global recharge. enough and it is virtually perma.
I dont give hard lines on what you HAVE to have as I feel all should have some chance to add thier own tastes. However I have felt since the age of inherent fitness, the new must have by 20 power, for blasters, is phase shift.
Let me explain simply. Its an ideal Oh **** button, and its far better to phase and be alive to keep aware of the flow of a fight while retreating rather then eating dirt. Stealth and invis give you 2 defense powers to slot LOTG 7.5s, essential boosts for drain psyche.
Follow these simple guidelines while developing a modern age blaster and you will I believe, find the experiance far more satsifying then in the early age when blasters where virtually forced to be glass. Now we can be impervium.
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This with these caveats:|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Assault Rifle/Energy
Assault Rifle's tier 1/2 attacks have higher than normal range: 90 and 100 feet instead of the normal 80. And Energy Manipulation has Boost Range which can be made perma and boosts range by about 60%. So AR/Eng could hit targets with its tier 1 and 2 attacks at between 143 and 159 feet, which is basically sniper range. Slot enough recharge, and you would have the ability to open with a snipe, then continue hitting the targets with single target shots at very long range. Slotting Cardiac or Intuition will get you an additional 20% range, which brings you up to an effective range of 160 feet+, double the range of normal blaster attacks. That's going for maximum range without having to resort to range slotting. The other thing you need to do is deliver effective damage at that range. My Energy Blaster slots a lot of global recharge *and* slots the Force Feedback +rech procs. The net result is that I can deliver an almost continuous attack stream with Power Bolt, Power Blast, and Explosive Blast at 80 feet. You might be able to do better with Electric Blast because Ball Lightning activates faster than Explosive Blast, and you might be able to do better with Psychic Blast which has a number of good DPA 80 foot ranged attacks: Telekinetic Blast in particular has excellent DPA at range. Of the three, Telekinetic Blast has the best shot at high single target damage, Electric Blast has the best shot at overall damage with the faster AoE, and Energy Blast has the best shot at keeping the targets at range with knockback. |
AR lacks a tier 3 heavy hitter AND lacks Aim. It also pays for the extra range in the tier 1 and 2 attacks by having every thing else except Full Auto and M30 grenade at less than 80 feet base range. You can't really put together a smooth attack chain and expect to stay at maximum range.
Elec also lacks a tier 3 heavy hitter and Sparky is less than magnificent.
Energy is also good but the tier 3 is short range and has a long animation time.
The one that I favor and believe is the best all around option for a pure range build (and Arcanaville didn't mention):
Archery
- The tier 1, 2 and 3 attacks are all base range 80.
- The animation times and recharges are fast all across the set (ie: there aren't any real outliers compared to the rest of the set)
- The set has Aim.
- If you include the snipe you can slot 4 sets of Thunderstrikes
- The tier 9 is a range 90 Non targetted AoE that has a radius of 25 feet and a target cap of 16 (instead of AR's 10). That allows you to hit targets as far away as 115 feet before adding any range slotting or boosting the range.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
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Great responses, thank you. I am gonna roll the ideas around in my head for a day or two and see what rolls back out.
I would suggest Archery/Energy. I have a thread I posted a bit ago with the build and such. It's ridiculous the range you get combining Dam/range HO's, boost range, cardiac's +range, and Clarion's +range. I like archery as everything it has is ranged, and still has very good burst damage.
Link to thread
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I don't think you need to forget survivability. It's fairly easy to hit 32.5% ranged defense with a blaster through set bonuses alone. As a hover blaster you can avoid melee mobs' hardest-hitting attacks.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Forget AoE. Forget survivability. Forget everything. (I may even give up on my anti-weapon rule) Forget it all. Except. RANGE.
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Yes, blasters generally have a lot of melee potential, but I've played both blappers and ranged blasters, and ranged blasters generally have fewer deaths. There's a reason why modern warfare is conducted with sniper and assault rifles, and not swords and fists.
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Just popping in to note that I wasn't sure if the build in the above link has it's Clarion radial epiphany in it. I went with that as it give mez protection along with a nice + range, +heal, +stun, +sleep, all of which the build can use. So combining clarion's +80% at its apex, the +60% from HO's, the +13% ED ignoring enhancement from cardiac core epiphany, and boost range's +60% range, you get +213% range. So your little snipe gets over 450 ft range, and your lowest ranged attack, fistfull of arrows, has a 150 foot range- the same as a usual snipe. Just sayin.' |
Originally Posted by Seldom
I would suggest Archery/Energy. I have a thread I posted a bit ago with the build and such. It's ridiculous the range you get combining Dam/range HO's, boost range, cardiac's +range, and Clarion's +range. I like archery as everything it has is ranged, and still has very good burst damage.
Link to thread |
What difficulty are you running? Are you solo or teamed? Not that I'm the worlds greatest AT player but blasting is pretty much straight forward - just manage your aggro and pew pew pew. Why not just make a Sonic / EM Blaster - Do DFBs until you hit 18 then from that point onward abuse Siren's Song?
I know it's not the answer to the original request but I've seen several posts by the OP regarding blasters and I cannot understand what the problems are.
@Deadboy
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At long range archery doesn't compare well to psychic blast. Psychic blast has *four* single target blasts with 80 feet of range, and as a group they have better DPA than Archery's attacks. Psychic Blast's tier 1/2 attacks have better DPA than Archery's tier 1/2, Psychic Blast's tier 3 beats Archery's tier 4 (its third single target ranged blast) and then Psychic Blast has a fourth, Will Domination, which also has good DPA (better than the tier1/2 attacks). The set also has Aim (focus), and has a snipe. Archery's main advantage is its long ranged non-crashing tier 9 Rain of Arrows. I'm not sure if that's enough to compensate for its disadvantages at long range, but with enough recharge it might be. Its probably worth putting into the mix just for that one power.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
The one that I favor and believe is the best all around option for a pure range build (and Arcanaville didn't mention):
Archery
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Its a 2 fold problem. The first being I have run predominately SS?Invul Brutes for over four years in the game. If I get even close to a Blapper build I tend to make critical errors because I start to act like a Brute, and then I am staring at floor. The second is conceptual, and also my fight with what the game designers call "ranged." I'll keep you posted.
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Originally Posted by deadboy_champion
I know it's not the answer to the original request but I've seen several posts by the OP regarding blasters and I cannot understand what the problems are.
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I am going to suggest Psi blaster. Most of the powers have really long ranges compared with others and most critters don't have much Psi protection. Couple it with Mind/Mental secondary (holds, immob, attacks) for my go-to auto-self-defense power Mind Probe and you can attack long-range and still defend yourself when need
Just why do you think range is going to be more important than everything else ?
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| Forget AoE. Forget survivability. Forget everything. (I may even give up on my anti-weapon rule) Forget it all. Except. RANGE. |
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I don't think he does. This is one in a long line of exploratory questions Blue_Centurion has been asking about different kinds of archetypes and builds: blaster mitigation, melee resistances, range, etc. They seem to be as much thought experiments as they are what's-the-best-X questions.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Just why do you think range is going to be more important than everything else ?
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Because the Devs do. What causes me to believe the Devs think extreme range is a cheat? I looked at how they designed the game as a whole and the Blaster class specifically. The key was in realizing that from the ground up the Blaster class is designed to hit peak performance as a Blapper. This is especially significant when everything in the sales brochure talks about how ranged they are. Therefore I trudge onward in my tilting at windmills. Wish me luck.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Just why do you think range is going to be more important than everything else ?
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If you want the benefit of extreme range, and want to take advantage of what was considered a cheat (being able to kill mobs while they can't kill you)|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Because the Devs do. What causes me to believe the Devs think extreme range is a cheat? I looked at how they designed the game as a whole and the Blaster class specifically. The key was in realizing that from the ground up the Blaster class is designed to hit peak performance as a Blapper. This is especially significant when everything in the sales brochure talks about how ranged they are. Therefore I trudge onward in my tilting at windmills. Wish me luck.
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Try Archery/Mental Manipulation or Archery/ Energy Manipuation.
Archery can literally kill x 8 spawns at range. Archery/Energy can do it at sniper range.
Ar is second in its ability to do this but its not a close second. AR notifies the enemies when you pull the trigger on full auto, Archery notifies when the pseudo pet spawns.
If you are willing to put aside your issues with weapons, consider a Villain Epic AT.
VEAT? But Crabs are mid-range at best. ?
I have an archery/energy blaster built for max range, and I have to say, I'm pretty unimpressed with the "survivability" range gives me. I admit that I haven't tested accurately yet, but it always seems like the enemies have extreme range on their attacks and manage to hit me from afar anyway. I remember getting to the max range on RoA which is something like 120 without boost range, using it on a malta spawn in PI, only for the gunslinger to turn around and blast me from where he stood. I was really surprised. I'm not sure how much further I can get away from mobs normally. The snipe has ridiculous range but the game's draw distance mandates a spotter at that range.
Just my 2 cents.
Boost range is a really obnoxious power to use effectively. Is it a good power? Absolutely, it is extremely strong, but to actually keep it perma takes such a massive chunk out of your attack cycle that you'll rapidly begin to wonder whether it's really all it's cracked up to be. How do I know this? Because for a while I played a perma-boost range en/en blaster before throwing up my hands and respeccing to a more sensible build. Actually, the more sensible build still has permanent boost range because that is super easy to achieve, but it is no longer reliant on it.
If I were to make a new blaster around the idea of maintaining long range I would consider two options. The first would be a centriole-heavy build. With three centrioles and two slots of whatever, all of your attacks can have ed capped damage, ed capped range, and good accuracy and recharge. Being a blaster you should be okay on endurance management. The second option would be a build that went with cardiac and the blaster AT set as its main sources of +range. That'd give you 27.5%, which really is nothing to sneeze at considering those bonuses are passive. Since cardiac is implicit, I'd use endurance heavy sets. Rad/fire, for instance. That would be an interesting character; your single target chain works from leagues away, yet your aoe all happens within hugging distance.
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I agree with all that but I just can't stand Psi. Too many icky things.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
At long range archery doesn't compare well to psychic blast. Psychic blast has *four* single target blasts with 80 feet of range, and as a group they have better DPA than Archery's attacks. Psychic Blast's tier 1/2 attacks have better DPA than Archery's tier 1/2, Psychic Blast's tier 3 beats Archery's tier 4 (its third single target ranged blast) and then Psychic Blast has a fourth, Will Domination, which also has good DPA (better than the tier1/2 attacks). The set also has Aim (focus), and has a snipe. Archery's main advantage is its long ranged non-crashing tier 9 Rain of Arrows. I'm not sure if that's enough to compensate for its disadvantages at long range, but with enough recharge it might be. Its probably worth putting into the mix just for that one power.
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- Mob types that resist Psi damage often have high resists to psi damage.
- Psi Tornado is the only option in the primary for ranged AoE damage.
- Slow projectile speeds.
It's not hard to get enough recharge to make Archery worth while and a recharge + range build is much cheaper in terms of influence costs to complete than a defense based build.
I also tend to give up set bonuses in Fistfull of Arrows and Frankenslot it to maximize as many aspects as possible while maximizing range (I have mine slotted in such a way that it is 75' before applying Boost Range)
Fistfull's endurance costs are also low enough that I can almost justify using it against a single target and consider any other targets hit a bonus.
My own Arch/Energy has enough recharge that I can, Boost Range>Aim>Build up>RoA>Explosive>Fistfull>then throw a couple of single target attacks in depending on target health>Fistfull, and have not much left to clean up of the spawn.
By the time I'm ready for the next spawn RoA usually is too.
I like that combination the best. It has the largest amount of bases covered for my particular play style.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Because the Devs do. What causes me to believe the Devs think extreme range is a cheat? I looked at how they designed the game as a whole and the Blaster class specifically. The key was in realizing that from the ground up the Blaster class is designed to hit peak performance as a Blapper. This is especially significant when everything in the sales brochure talks about how ranged they are. Therefore I trudge onward in my tilting at windmills. Wish me luck.
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If you looked carefully at the game even a few issues ago you could tell that the original dev design was based around players taking ALL primary and secondary powers and a travel pool. Blasters are still very broken when using that model for comparison as it is possible with just SO slotting to have powers that you never use simply because a better power is recharged and available to use.
It was far worse I7ish as I recall, AR and Arch had much longer animation times across the power set. You could easily rely on 4-5 powers total and have the others just sit in your tray. I would have gone with a toggle heavy build at that time because of that except that endurance costs were much higher and mez still detoggled ALL of your toggles.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Archery/EM or Fire/EM would be my choice.
Archery/Ice or Fire/Ice could be fun also.
A well placed Ice Patch can keep mob's from closing.
and since no one's mentioned it yet...
LRM Rocket!
Level 44: LRM Rocket
- (A) Detonation - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (46) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (46) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
with Aim and BU, its about 550 damage with 3 20% chances for 71 damage. It's roughly a 2min recharge tho.
perma jump is ---> /up 1
Right now that LRM is looking good. I created a 1st AR/Nrg with costume/concept I am okay with. I do not like weapons in the game, but I could roll with it. I am also looking heavily at Mental/Energy.
When I look at this character I am thinking about how he will drive as an incarnated 50. If i grind into it I can hit Alpha unlocked in a week or so. One of the problems I have with weapons are they work so poorly with things like Judgement, and every other power in the game. Where is the judgement shot from the gun? Design fail. Stuff like that really bothers me.
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Ehhh ? Crabs aren't the only veats and all of them have pretty good ranged options|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
VEAT? But Crabs are mid-range at best. ?
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Crabs aren't slouches by any measure.
Single shot:80 feet
Burst:80 feet
Venom grenade:80 feet
Frag grenade: 80 feet
Mu lightning/Spirit Shark/Gloom/Mace Blast: 80 feet.
But just back on topic, if you want to deliver damage at long range Archery is the blast set that does it.
On a spawn of 16, Archery can deliver around 16,000 pts of damage in under 2 seconds from the spawn being notified.
Or to put it another way, Rain of arrows + Explosive arrow will do 1,000 points to everything in the spawn withing 2 seconds of the spawn first knowing they can shoot back.
Single target damage in general and single target damage at range is pretty irrelevant unless you are fighting 1 enemy.
before you decide, Id like to offer you the chance to see my blaster Bentley Berkeley in action. He is on Virtue, and even if you have to roll a fresh toon on the server Ill be happy to take you along on something to show you what blasters when well run can do.
If you do have something like a nice high end brute to bring all the better. Can run a fast 4 man 3rd respec jacked up to X8 to have some fast fun. ill be on BB all day just shoot a tell if you want.
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I'll gladly take you up on that Demetrios. I will be on all Saturday evening and almost all Sunday doing trials with my shiny new 50 Scrapper on Virtue. He is currently fully I/O'd and well on his way to being fully incarnated. I like to think of him as something of a beast. We could have fun, get treasure, and I might learn something. My Global is Snarky.
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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
before you decide, Id like to offer you the chance to see my blaster Bentley Berkeley in action. He is on Virtue, and even if you have to roll a fresh toon on the server Ill be happy to take you along on something to show you what blasters when well run can do.
If you do have something like a nice high end brute to bring all the better. Can run a fast 4 man 3rd respec jacked up to X8 to have some fast fun. ill be on BB all day just shoot a tell if you want. |
Personally, I keep failing at Blasters. But, beaten and bruised, I keep coming back. So, here I go again. All of my personal research indicates that Blasters are designed as Blappers from the ground up. YMMV. But I am going to ask for some help and see if I cannot bring my concept into the Cities.
Forget AoE. Forget survivability. Forget everything. (I may even give up on my anti-weapon rule) Forget it all. Except. RANGE.
What Primaries (and secondaries) provide the best pure (very long) Ranged options for Blasting, and why? And by how much 10%, 50%?