FINALIZED BUILDS:
**place holder**
Here is Build 1:
Code:
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Code:
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Thanks for contributing New Dawn. I'm out of town for the next week, but will have a look when I get back and have access to Mids. 
Here is the comparative statistical analysis results for Build 1 original (B1) versus New Dawn build (ND):
Defense: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Smashing: 44.4% vs 46.8% (+2.4%)
Lethal: 23.2% vs 31.8% (+8.6%)
Fire: 21.3% vs 15.6% (-5.7%)
Cold: 21.3% vs 15.6% (-5.7%)
Energy: 20.7% vs 30.9% (+10.2%)
Negative: 20.7% vs 30.9% (+10.2%)
Psionic: 15.1% vs 13.4% (-1.7%)
Melee: 43.1% vs 43.7% (+0.6%)
Ranged: 20.7% vs 24% (+3.3%)
AoE: 27.6% vs 17.8% (-9.8%)
Resistance: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Smashing: 70.4% vs 70.4%
Lethal: 70.4% vs 70.4%
Fire: 90% vs 90% (capped)
Cold: 28.2% vs 29.1% (+0.9%)
Energy: 46.9% vs 46.9%
Negative: 56.3% vs 46.9% (-9.4%)
Toxic: 20% vs 20%
Psionic: 0% vs 0%
Health: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Regeneration: 284% vs 160% (-124%)
Time to go from 0-100% Health: 84.61s vs 150s (+65.4s)
Health regenerated per second: 1.18% vs 0.67% (-0.51%)
HP regenerated per second @ lvl 50: 23.81 vs 14.6 (-9.21)
Max HP with base HP 1874: 107.5% @ 2014 HP vs 116.9% @ 2190 HP (+9.4% @ +176 HP)
Endurance: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
End Recovery: 212% @ 3.59 end/s vs 170% @ 3.04 end/s (-42% @ -0.55 end/s)
Time to go from 0-100% End: 28.36s vs 35.23s (+6.87s)
End Use: 1.42/s vs 1.16/s (-0.26/s)
Net End Gain (Recovery - Drain): 2.17/s vs 1.89/s (-0.28/s)
Time to go from 0-100% End (using Net Gain): 46.86s vs 56.84s (+9.98s)
Max End: 101.8% vs 107.2% (+5.4%)
Misc Buffs: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Run: 22.2mph vs 23.6mph (+1.4mph)
Jump Speed (Combat Jumping on): 40.6mph vs 42mph (+1.4mph)
Jump Height (Combat Jumping on): 21.7ft vs 22.1ft (+0.4ft)
Perception: 500ft vs 500ft
Haste: +102.5% vs +92.5% (-10%)
To Hit: +20% vs +71.5% (+51.5%)
Accuracy: +43% vs +18% (-25%)
Damage: +55.5% vs +138% (+82.5%)
Status Protection magnitude: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Hold: 14.98 vs 12.98 (-2 mag)
Stun: 12.98 vs 12.98
Sleep: 12.98 vs 12.98
Immob: 25.95 vs 25.95
Knockback: 21 vs 8 (-13 mag)
Status Resistance: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Hold: 81.7% vs 0% (-81.7%)
Stun: 2.2% vs 3.9% (+1.7%)
Sleep: 75.7% vs 77.3% (+1.6%)
Immob: 81.2% vs 84.5% (+3.3%)
Fear: 0% vs 5% (+5%)
Debuff Resistance: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Endurance: 50% vs 50%
Recharge Time: 20% vs 20%
Run Speed: 20% vs 20%
Noteworthy Powers: B1 vs ND (+/-% difference)
Healing Flames:
End Discount: 73.78% vs 47.70% (-26.08%)
End Cost: 5.98 vs 7.04 (-1.06)
Heal: 97.49% vs 88.07% (-9.42%)
Heal to self: 50.87% vs 48.02% (-2.85%)
Recharge: 73.78% vs 97.49% (+23.71%)
Recharge time: 14.48s vs 13.79s (-0.69s)
Consume:
Accuracy: 73.78% vs 39.15% (-34.63%)
End Discount: 97.49% vs 39.15% (-58.34%)
End Self: 39.5% vs 27.83% (-11.67%)
Recovery Self: 9.87% vs 6.96% (-2.91%)
Recharge: 73.78% vs 60.90% (-12.88%)
Recharge time: 65.15s vs 71.03s (+5.88)
*NOTE* ~ New Dawn opted to take Fiery Embrace and Rise of the Phoenix as personal choices, which is fine. However, since the slotting of generic IO rchg in them does not modify any of the overall statistics, for discussion purposes those powers will not be included as changes needed for the final build.
On a personal note, I do not like to take Fiery Embrace (unless the secondary set is Fire), nor do I like to take RotP (I don't like playing a character with the idea/concept/option of dying as a tool/power to utilize), though I do understand its situational usefulness.
Also, Defensive Sweep is an incredibly useful power to add to your survivability. Using/slotting it as a damage dealing power instead of a defense buffing power wastes its true potential, imo.
Finally, how much are Kinetic Combat IO's going for these days? I've never found them to be affordable at all versus the amount of funding I can generate on my limited available playing time.
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My personal critique:
Defense: nice increases to stats, particularly noteworthy are the improvements for smashing/lethal and energy numbers in regards to running incarnate content.
Resistance: negligible
Health: nice improvement to HP, but at too great of a sacrifice to regen numbers imo.
Endurance: negligible
Misc Buffs: to hit versus accuracy importance is arguably a preference, but nice improvements to damage.
Status Protection: only an 8 mag knockback just doesn't cut it for me personally during incarnate trials.
Status Resistance: 0% hold resistance won't be much fun I'm thinking; that 5% fear is a nice addition though.
Debuff Resistance: n/a
Healing Flames: to gain just over a 1/2 second rchg at small loss of heal and small increase to end cost, versus losing the set bonuses from Numina's is not worth it imo.
Consume: this power is too vital not to maximize performance on imo.
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Thank you New Dawn! I will take some of your suggested improvements and come up with Build 2 and post it later.
Thanks to New Dawn's suggestions, here is Build 2: (ready for critique)
Code:
Here is the comparative statistical analysis results for Build 1 original (B1) versus Build 2 (B2) with improvements/losses as compared to proposed B1 versus New Dawn stat changes:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1460;688;1376;HEX;| |78DA65945B6F125110C7CF2E8B94162C94167AA3506CB99442A9FA648C466D6B342| |5E94D7D24AB1CDBB56469B8A8F8E657506BBDA626BEF9E067F0FE294C7CD658F5D1| |C4CB3AECFC834D7603FCF6CC9939F39FD9618B37E77C2FCFDE3E2914DF998A5EAF9| |7D6747353D6BA8ACD86DE30AAA6A0CB73BA6954CAF1C31EBA1FE2FDD29CBC2ACDBA| |CC2F18B2D62A9D6AD6F461EC146545CAFC9AD1D0CDD225A96F55CDBAE85EAA562BF| |9D52D29CB7EFB76C158DF6818E6BACF5E2D921B2D82F6E29C79DDA81B978D8AD168| |85E6B78C2BF97953D6D65BA5A25E6F50B2415291A4EF6B2FFD286D7D964B8CD14D4| |A136A0C1C676A09625413DB91B6AFC2BE3F856D9B1DA0F52CB11FEC63BEF1C25558| |6E65996DDA0AF3C02AB8C6ECBA005E64EE501E97B06335D767D5CED3FD15DC63FA5| |AC2F6F5DD62BEA57C6ECEA7BAC3ACF760041C64BE231F0FEB777BEEA8765CE02EB8| |CDECBB07DE67F6EF301F90262F6B7279AF61CF600E6E809BCCF7E4D8839EF6A0A7C| |331D6308C9E8E2698091A073F74FBB35CCB2838063EA4DCBDE847EF1221417BCBE0| |0A33BE0A9639E6036908A2FFC15FAC2BFE9B39FE07FC0B5ACC43EDAE131F51BE103| |4859E61EF39B8CB5449F7006B1203165DC2459608AA8EA0EA094CD204AA9E40D51A| |F90EB1AF3614E0CE243139C91088894A61C21E93AA11641C4195613A278A9C51C4A| |50220E233887F451D89B1AF12BBC1F133989E277476021D4E60E23298B80C266EEA| |0B8898A71433899849C44C21661A31D3889946CC2E35388D1AD278BA2FFC4264F1A| |4B298CA1CA63287E9CB1DE31ECD9C008F3323547F1EE7E53F620AC956E0F344619C| |73EC7577FE8D42C9B1EDFB7EDB797E2EDFF6DBD2ECF7E3BF4D55A02B0C9D61E81BD| |5042E8B3EED69C8689DF78A35E5D82D382CB30ECB1187E5A8C3B2E8B02C6948DBAE| |C0B678039DB789F529D2F1B7FE01288DE332| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Defense: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Smashing: 44.4% vs 47.9% (+3.5%) (+2.4%)
Lethal: 23.2% vs 26.7% (+3.5%) (+8.6%)
Fire: 21.3% vs 16.4% (-4.9%) (-5.7%)
Cold: 21.3% vs 16.4% (-4.9%) (-5.7%)
Energy: 20.7% vs 29.8% (+9.1%) (+10.2%)
Negative: 20.7% vs 29.8% (+9.1%) (+10.2%)
Psionic: 15.1% vs 14.8% (-0.3%) (-1.7%)
Melee: 43.1% vs 44.7% (+1.6%) (+0.06%)
Ranged: 20.7% vs 25.1% (+4.4%) (+3.3%)
AoE: 27.6% vs 17.9% (-9.7%) (-9.8%)
Resistance: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Smashing: 70.4% vs 70.4%
Lethal: 70.4% vs 70.4%
Fire: 90% vs 90% (capped)
Cold: 28.2% vs 28.2% (+0.09%)
Energy: 46.9% vs 48.2% (+1.3%)
Negative: 56.3% vs 48.2% (-8.1%) (-9.4%)
Toxic: 20% vs 20%
Psionic: 0% vs 0%
Health: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Regeneration: 284% vs 276% (-8%) (-124%)
Time to go from 0-100% Health: 84.61s vs 87.05s (+2.44s) (+65.4s)
Health regenerated per second: 1.18% vs 1.15% (-0.03%) (-0.51%)
HP regenerated per second @ lvl 50: 23.81 vs 25.81 (+2) (-9.21)
Max HP with base HP 1874: 107.5% @ 2014 HP vs 119.9% @ 2246 HP (+12.4% @ +232 HP) (+9.4 @ +176 HP)
Endurance: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
End Recovery: 212% @ 3.59 end/s vs 202% @ 3.61 end/s (-10% @ +0.02 end/s) (-42% @ -0.55 end/s)
Time to go from 0-100% End: 28.36s vs 29.67s (+1.31s) (6.87s)
End Use: 1.42/s vs 1.36/s (-0.10/s) (-0.26/s)
Net End Gain (Recovery - Drain): 2.17/s vs 2.25/s (+0.08/s) (-0.28/s)
Time to go from 0-100% End (using Net Gain): 46.86s vs 47.58s (+0.72s) (+9.98s)
Max End: 101.8% vs 107.2% (+5.4%) (+5.4%)
Misc Buffs: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Run: 22.2mph vs 24.2mph (+2.0mph) (+1.4mph)
Jump Speed (Combat Jumping on): 40.6mph vs 42mph (+1.4mph) (+1.4mph)
Jump Height (Combat Jumping on): 21.7ft vs 22.1ft (+0.4ft) (+0.4ft)
Perception: 500ft vs 500ft
Haste: +102.5% vs +97.5% (-5%) (-10%)
To Hit: +20% vs +25.7% (+5.7%) (+51.5%)
Accuracy: +43% vs +27% (-16%) (-25%)
Damage: +55.5% vs +57.5% (+2.0%) (+82.5%)
Status Protection magnitude: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Hold: 14.98 vs 14.98 (-2 mag)
Stun: 12.98 vs 12.98
Sleep: 12.98 vs 12.98
Immob: 25.95 vs 25.95
Knockback: 21 vs 21 (-13 mag)
Status Resistance: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Hold: 81.7% vs 84.5% (+2.8%) (-81.7%)
Stun: 2.2% vs 2.2% (+1.7%)
Sleep: 75.7% vs 75.7% (+1.6%)
Immob: 81.2% vs 81.7% (+0.5%) (+3.3%)
Fear: 0% vs 0% (+5%)
Debuff Resistance: B1 vs B2 (+/-% difference)
Endurance: 50% vs 50%
Recharge Time: 20% vs 20%
Run Speed: 20% vs 20%
Noteworthy Powers: B1 vs B2 (no changes)
Healing Flames:
End Discount: 73.78% (-26.08%)
End Cost: 5.98 (-1.06)
Heal: 97.49% (-9.42%)
Heal to self: 50.87% (-2.85%)
Recharge: 73.78% (+23.71%)
Recharge time: 14.48s (-0.69s)
Consume:
Accuracy: 73.78% (-34.63%)
End Discount: 97.49% (-58.34%)
End Self: 39.5% (-11.67%)
Recovery Self: 9.87% (-2.91%)
Recharge: 73.78% (-12.88%)
Recharge time: 65.15s (+5.88s)
Statistical analysis, this looks fun. I would consider doing it between builds. The way I would do it is not compare power to power but entire build to entire build, taking into account attack chains etc. Everything can come down to an effect per end per sec, but then you have other priorities, like is there enough acc. Trading from one comfort zone to another is usually based on personal feel and experience.
This sort of thing would be better with more contributers if it is to be a ballpark idea that the average person should start with. If its for your personal use then ofc you have to go with your ideas.
If it's just us two then this thread is going to be basically only good for you to ascertain what it is you wish to go for.
Thoughts:
Your build one to me was this:
Low def, unless its Smash or melee, couldn't even rely on a single basic luck to hit softcap on other def types. 2000hitpoints, not great hitpoints per sec out of HF and not consistently quadruple stacking res versus Tox.All Schedule A enhancements are equal except for Damage which is save end, reduce fight duration. All attacks offer DPE, max DPE = more done per attack, increased threat, less attacks req'd to defeat, minimise fight duration, end save. Rend Armour and Defensive Sweep are not doing what they do best which is great dpe and then secondary effect/end. Too much loss from ED doesn't equal getting max bang for buck from slots. End use versus end recovery, well with max dpe per attack satisfactory perhaps overkill when using accolades, without max dpe per attack, then not so much. Hitting something twice when you could of hit it once if ya had more damage is not saving end. Stamina not best slotted anyway.
My build 2 was higher def, def being one of the most important things of any build , almost 1 luck away to softcap versus more. All attacks with decent DPE, reducing fight duration and end use. Fiery embrace =-fight duration, saves endurance too. End use versus end recovery satisfactory. Stamina, Consume and Conserve should suffice although an extra rechg in Conserve wouldnt go amiss. Greater increase on Hitpoints for alphas, lower regen, quicker healing flames as it does stack toxic res. Max end greater versus end drain.
Third build, still not getting max DPE, therefore not minimising fight duration, not effectively doing most damage with all attacks reducing number of attacks required. Defense has improved. End rec has improved to perhaps beyond necessary levels. 4 slotted weak powers for the sake of bonuses when better bonuses could of been achieved in stronger powers, like Rend Armour. 4 slots in combat jump, 3 slots in Temp prot, not strong powers in themselves, not much point in making them stronger by very little with bonuses. Rend Armour, stronger power, strong bonuses, deals good damage, -def and -res. Blazing aura is weak, consistent threat from it not great, particulary with low levels of momentum.
Firetanks are meant to survive by offense. I am sacrificing passive survivability for offensive survivability. If its dead it, it can't do anymore. I'd rather kill something quick than sit there taking damage because I couldn't. I'd consider 3 slotting my stamina once tested so I end up with this: Which I think is 20hitpoints less, 10 hitpoints per sec less (which isn't much to me) and if I go down, I can get back up and carry on immediately. Endurance is saved through offense too.
Code:
It would be better with more contributors. Otherwise its you say potato the american way and I say potato with a british accent.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1454;676;1352;HEX;| |78DA6594596F12611486BF190659DB5229A51BA5C59655B6E8BD51DB9A9852D136F| |1924C64C45132500612EB9D7FC1DAD435DEB8DEF81BDCF54798786DB4EAA589CB78| |66CE1B6CC204783ECE77CEF79E79E740E5EA52F0F9A9EBC784143CD9544DB3B6A11| |A57B48EB7D2EBAA5DBD6508BA3C277A7AB33E57F6D07A92F76B4BDA45CD30B5C28A| |AE75B66AC77B1D750A3B15ADA969850DBDAB1AB5F39ADA6E19A608565BAD666195B| |EE946C3EF7C596F6B5A3DE02C579A7AE3527788D7F69292C2CB6DFD4261D9D03A8D| |AD5A4535BB243341FA497ABFF4D187647766B9C42C2D528A90E3E03C534910638AD| |889DAB976B2A588CFB21353F69807BE805F99DE6B945656C42B1F4AA8463A233931| |EF2AD35F01D798C12A7397745C826B5CD0094267183AC3D00941679C0C75B38E70F| |F14CE5E82621E8EC99E1CE785C083E02DD2F2B196DB67C8BCD7628EB5C14DE64407| |34996FA93000EF02F06E2ACE5E4DC1BB99043340BD0CB18E18FAC8F5B7497B04F73| |952252428FF2C73F61CB80ED6B9DF77A4398A7E477FF13973BFC13FE05FE6BC05DA| |6E12EF905E98FB75871F62EF11F3D063F009F894B9F08CF9827423A88DB4D9DF854| |DB0C34C9A60977B4DF6986FA836EA0C99254777F8B9A5B6C19B4C99FC99843F9316| |5DC2459169B83B0D775398CC0CDCCDC0DDBB746731381983931938998593593899B| |DCC5D29747E1CE7C7433C7987C3E0181861DEA3F313383F8189CC6322F398C83C26| |B28889BC4F358BA859444D113545D494515346CD037A5069B890C684BE27F772DCA| |79443AC0CBEA6BD02A6BE10E5C9FB40B112CE28216FCFDFFF150A29CFB1EFFB63A7| |D9C76FFB6369CEFBF13F264BDB3C0DE337C05DE68C227059F4B29F5E46E9FFAF58D| |981DDD240A43C10393210393A10591D885415C8DA77E0447CA1FEBF89F529DACFB7| |FE01ADF6E62E| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Yes you have more of this and that but I killed it my spawn before you and moved on.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Thanks for your info - I'll have a look when I can. I agree with you entirely, hence trying to get a solid general build with the best numbers possible. Could definitely spend hours looking at attack chaining, etc to see how best accommodates, dunno if I can afford to invest that much time LOL but really appreciate all your thoughts and input on this. You have a lot of valid points re: fire tanker best defense is a strong offense - it's been many years since I've played a fire tank so I had forgotten much of this.
Build 1 was just a quicky throw together based on powers I would take and slotted with quick sets, just to get the ball rolling. Did not spend a lot of time on it, and new it needed a lot of tweaking to improve shoddy defensive numbers.
Quote:
Yes, I agree - I really was hoping to get as many other Tanks involved in this as possible. Maybe it will take a bit more time to hook them!? |
Originally Posted by New Dawn
It would be better with more contributors.
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This is obviously an experiment in Tanker community interest. Hopefully, they'll rise to the challenge,
I think that trying to get a call for updated guides is a good idea. I think that throwing out builds with not much behind them isn't all that useful to the people that really need them.
Basically, if you're looking for a guide to something to see what the synergies are, or what it's good/bad against, or what powers are useful, then a build doesn't do that on its own.
Meanwhile, comparing builds against one another is useful in certain regards, but not in others. If I just want to see if a certain type of Tanker is "good," but don't care if its the best, then a build competition will merely confuse me.
In short: I'm all for a call for updating guides. I don't think that a thread of builds is useful to the people that need help.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Hmm, well that's disappointing. Guess I need to reconsider the approach to this then.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I don't think that a thread of builds is useful to the people that need help.
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It's not a bad thing to have, don't get me wrong. I just think that it doesn't help the target audience.|
Originally Posted by UNB0UND_4_LIFE
Hmm, well that's disappointing. Guess I need to reconsider the approach to this then.
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Those people who know how to build, have Mid's and compare builds for fun are not the ones who really need guides. They can get a Mid's build together pretty quickly and ask for feedback.
The people who use guides are those that are generally unfamiliar with a set/AT/the game. Those are the ones who really need a little bit more detail on how things work. A build, without context or detail, just isn't that useful for them.
Like I said, I think that a renewed effort on Guides is a good task. I just don't think that random builds help the people that need the guides. But having a consolidated Tanker build thread might be good, too.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I realize what Aett was saying but I am rather interested on what the Tanker community would do if thoughts were combined.
Unbound 1 build.
Me 1 build.
See if we sway eachothers thinking..
Someone else 1 build, see if we can sway eachothers thinking
Someone else etc
Result, a hodge podge of what most people prefer.
Could of been a mess or could of been simply interesting to see what most people value, offensive, active or passive survivability from a Firetank.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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While I understand your point, I have to disagree with it. This is what I read from your post, “Those of us who know what we are doing don't need this. Only those who lack the knowledge and experience do. *” You may not mean this as it sounds, but what I get from your post.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
It's not a bad thing to have, don't get me wrong. I just think that it doesn't help the target audience.
Those people who know how to build, have Mid's and compare builds for fun are not the ones who really need guides. They can get a Mid's build together pretty quickly and ask for feedback. The people who use guides are those that are generally unfamiliar with a set/AT/the game. Those are the ones who really need a little bit more detail on how things work. A build, without context or detail, just isn't that useful for them. * Like I said, I think that a renewed effort on Guides is a good task. I just don't think that random builds help the people that need the guides. But having a consolidated Tanker build thread might be good, too. |
The moment someone says, "I know it all I do not need to learn anymore shows him or her self a fool." No one, no matter how experienced or educated they are, stops learning. The purpose of this thread as I see it can benefit everyone, including those who can build a character in their sleep without Mids. Sometimes doing it in a certain manner may not be the proper way anymore.
The mechanics, powers, and abilities in this game are evolving. What is true now for one-way 2 years ago certainly will not the same for now or in the upcoming i22, i23, and beyond. A mark of a good player is in their ability to learn, adapt, and improve on their performance and the process they use.
This thread is a practice in 'improving the process' of which we do things here. It is one thing to build a character to a known specification for performance. It is quite another to improve the process which exceeds the existing specification by moving the bar up (Deming, 1981).
An example of this is improving the process that allows you to soft cap and max out hit points without ever having to use an inspiration or become an incarnate to get there. Furthermore, do it every time you create a new character. When the game changes again, reassess the process and find a way to improve on it again.
In my case, I have found splitting two sets on one power can increase the performance or defense, whichever I am looking for. I am using 3 Devastations & 2 Apocalypse with Hurl. That gives me +12% regen, +2.25% health, +3% damage with Devastation and +16% regen & +3% health with Apocalypse. I have increased my regen by +28%, health by +5.25%, and overall damage by +3%. This does not take into account the others I have slotted either. In this case, I was looking to increase my survivability using this power.
Even though the performance of my character is great, I know I can increase it substantially, even though she is a 50+3 level incarnate. This thread and others like it show various different approaches in reaching a goal. By using input from others, including you, and analyzing the data, one can find how to improve the process that we all are striving for in building a character that in our own view is the ultimate build.
I do not know about you, I'd like to take my character (in the case of my example a Brute) up against a Siege by myself in the BAF and pound him into twisted metal and walk away with a smile. Alternatively, to take on Recluse in Recluse's Victory or STF and faceplant him and not worry about using one inspiration while doing it. Lofty goal, sure it is; however, I believe it is possible. A thread like this can certainly help me, you, and everyone else get there.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Personally I lean more towards what Aett mentioned. Yes I think updated guides would be great, but I don't believe this is the right format for it. For me, guides are more about describing the feel, strength and weakness' of a set, and how the guide's builder would suggest slotting the sets to work within those "limitations". I believe the guide section, and how things are presented there, works.
In my mind, crafting builds is more focused on each individual's personal preferences, needs and wants. Just because person A. is shooting for one thing, doesn't mean person B. wants the same results. So just because there are some well thought out builds in this thread, doesn't mean I would think they're the best for me or for anyone else. There are elements that I would certainly use, but for me a guide isn't about creating cookie cutter builds. There is no one "right way".
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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This is one reason why I ALWAYS have an SO-based leveling build for my characters. With SOs, the focus is getting the most from the powers and enhancing synergy.
IO sets just trade a little of this for a little of that. Yes, they also allow you to squeeze more utility and effectiveness out of a build, by working multi-aspect enhancers to add up to more, higher enhancements. I also admit that set bonuses, like +Recharge and +Defense can be paradigm-shifters for a given build, but they don't really improve The Build.
Be Well!
Fireheart
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A good example of this is a few years ago I asked for help with my FA/Fire tank build and had some pretty nice builds. I took what was there and made my build to the way I liked it and it works great for me. Some time later someone asked me about the build and I showed her how I play my tank on a tip mish. My play style was different from hers, as well as a friend of mine who has one whos FA/Fire build is different from mine due to his play style. Not everyone has the same play style there for every one have a different view of things.
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Personally I lean more towards what Aett mentioned. Yes I think updated guides would be great, but I don't believe this is the right format for it. For me, guides are more about describing the feel, strength and weakness' of a set, and how the guide's builder would suggest slotting the sets to work within those "limitations". I believe the guide section, and how things are presented there, works.
In my mind, crafting builds is more focused on each individual's personal preferences, needs and wants. Just because person A. is shooting for one thing, doesn't mean person B. wants the same results. So just because there are some well thought out builds in this thread, doesn't mean I would think they're the best for me or for anyone else. There are elements that I would certainly use, but for me a guide isn't about creating cookie cutter builds. There is no one "right way". |
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Not to me. My takeaway is, "People who need a guide would only copy a build from this thread and not gain the deeper understanding of why the choices were made that they might have gained from a lengthy guide discussing the powers in detail."
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Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
While I understand your point, I have to disagree with it. This is what I read from your post, “Those of us who know what we are doing don't need this. Only those who lack the knowledge and experience do. *” You may not mean this as it sounds, but what I get from your post.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Another thought: It ain't a Tanker-specific problem. With a few exceptions, ALL the guides are woefully out of date.
As always, asking that someone else take the time and effort to write a guide doesn't add much value. People have asked that for years. Why don't more people write guides? It can be a LOT of work for low reward, and be quickly rendered obsolete by patches and Issues.
Where I work, I've gotten used to the idea that I leave every meeting with a list of "action items" exactly as long as the list of "suggestions" I brought in with me. :P
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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While what you say might be true, I doubt it would be a rampant problem inasmuch as a very small percentage would resort to doing that. Many who post to this board, like other game genre boards, are dedicated to the game in play and understanding its mechanics. Most I would say, from my experience, frown on doing that. Some do I have noticed but only to verify builds and performance. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Not to me. My takeaway is, "People who need a guide would only copy a build from this thread and not gain the deeper understanding of why the choices were made that they might have gained from a lengthy guide discussing the powers in detail."
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The problem as I see it, regarding guidelines, is they become static. Writing a Tome for others is very time consuming. From how this thread started, I can see this becoming a foundation for a dynamic guideline where people can contribute to it, thus relieving one person from having to do it all, requiring far less work. Heck, it could be in the same format as the Tanker suggestion thread. Players can take from it what they want. As a guide helps people understand the flow and process, players can adapt their playing style to the mechanics and builds as they progress.
This thread or one like it has the potential to become knowledge base for old and new to use. One that everyone participates in offering up their own insights and experiences. Where someone might like what you have said about one thing, others about Aett_Thorn, New Dawn, LSK, and others have said, and use it or adapt it to fit how they play.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Actually if u look at the guides they may be out of date but they still hold lot of usefull information in them that is still very accurate. Just because they do not have the latest issue that they r not useful anymore. Alot of the guides for tanks are written not to long after the inherent fitness was introduced and i still use some of them as I know lot of others do as well. Just because you think since freedom launched there should be new guides due to some of the power choices that they added the guide is no good anymore dose not say it isn't.
Dunno about the rest of you, my fellow Tankers, but I have found it difficult to track down good current builds for Tankers since the guide thread isn't being updated. I, unfortunately, don't have the time to go through the hundreds of threads trying to piecemeal an uber-type build from all the suggestions and advice. I can comfortably build any tank, but, often find that there are a lot of other Tankers out there that are in the know for good tweaks and such to maximize their builds. I also find that there are a lot of us that don't like to share all of our secrets when it comes to uber-sizing our builds for our favorite tanks, and I can totally understand that.
So, here's my suggestion for those of you that are willing:
1) I will post a preliminary Tanker build from Mids to this thread.
2) We, as a collective group, will critique it and modify it accordingly until it's as uber as we can agree on.
3) We will use the following parameters:
a) this is a finalized level 50 build (not a leveling up build),
b) the main focus is on the primary power set, (we can always also do secondary alternatives along the way)
c) this is a pre-incarnate build, BUT also want to have incarnate suggestions, and
d) must not sacrifice solo playability.
4) Once we have, hopefully, reached a consensus on the build, I will update the 2nd post in this thread as the home for our finalized builds by posting just the data links for Mids.
Hopefully this sounds OK? I'm also totally up for any other suggestions with this. Just trying to help all of us Tankers out is all.