First of all, you have a nice costume. I also like the impressive set of bonuses on display; it makes for a nice picture. So, bar in the background, is AlienOne a big drinker??? You do know that you're saying to the kids of Paragon City, "This is where the cool cats hang out." Oh, strike that, I see you are a Vigilante...o.k. that explains it...
I see that your post is going on 90 views and no one has made any comments...you see, this is what happens when you write a guide. No one dares to scrutinize the expert's build. 
Overall I like it. The many hold procs, and especially having two of them in Grav Snare jumps out at me. I have a Stone/Rad Controller that holds...everything...she has many hold procs worked in as well.
Do you actually use Jump Kick? Because if not you could get Super Jump earlier instead and drop a KB protection enh there or your Winter's Gift (I do see you have these elsewhere already).
I like getting Vengeance early on but, then again, I just use my one build for everything whereas I have read you make use of all three.
I find the Gaus in Sunless interesting. Especially since you are missing out on the extra defense of six slotting. I do see that when Vengeance is on you are at 32.5+ def.
The Jav Volley in Unchain is a nice touch and one that I may incorporate.
So no accuracy in Eclipse...Is it autohit now or is your acc high enough to do without it or do you make it high enough by using sun or inspirs first?
The multiple slots in Health and Stamina don't appeal to me but I suppose you are needing the end. And Neby Form...two slotted...if it floats your boat. But SJ unslotted has better stats.
Later
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Thanks!|
Originally Posted by AIB
First of all, you have a nice costume. I also like the impressive set of bonuses on display; it makes for a nice picture. So, bar in the background, is AlienOne a big drinker??? You do know that you're saying to the kids of Paragon City, "This is where the cool cats hang out." Oh, strike that, I see you are a Vigilante...o.k. that explains it...
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Originally Posted by AIB
I see that your post is going on 90 views and no one has made any comments...you see, this is what happens when you write a guide. No one dares to scrutinize the expert's build.
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I even had switched to the ACC/Dam Hamis in my Eclipse slotting a month or two ago becaise of finding out that Hamis also improved other things besides what they list (see? "experts" don't know everything! lol)
Since that's now being fixed, I just had to switch back to how I originally had it.
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Originally Posted by AIB
Overall I like it. The many hold procs, and especially having two of them in Grav Snare jumps out at me. I have a Stone/Rad Controller that holds...everything...she has many hold procs worked in as well.
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Originally Posted by AIB
Do you actually use Jump Kick? Because if not you could get Super Jump earlier instead and drop a KB protection enh there or your Winter's Gift (I do see you have these elsewhere already).
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Yes, that may be a minor nitpicky thing, but I find that if I've activated Super Jump (I've had it on my build before) to travel to a mission, I often forget to re-activate Combat Jumping before leaping into battle... It is a very minor nitpick, so that's why I'm still debating with myself on it. That, and I do like the phase part of Neb form as well--it allowed me to essentially "tank" Lord Recluse without dying on my human-only build last night on a Statesman Task Force, which is something I've never been able to do on my Warshade before except when on my Tri-Form build.
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Originally Posted by AIB
I like getting Vengeance early on but, then again, I just use my one build for everything whereas I have read you make use of all three.
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Originally Posted by AIB
I find the Gaus in Sunless interesting. Especially since you are missing out on the extra defense of six slotting. I do see that when Vengeance is on you are at 32.5+ def.
The Jav Volley in Unchain is a nice touch and one that I may incorporate. |
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Originally Posted by AIB
So no accuracy in Eclipse...Is it autohit now or is your acc high enough to do without it or do you make it high enough by using sun or inspirs first?
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Originally Posted by AIB
The multiple slots in Health and Stamina don't appeal to me but I suppose you are needing the end. And Neby Form...two slotted...if it floats your boat. But SJ unslotted has better stats.
Later |
I'll have to keep the SJ stuff in mind though... I'm still on the fence there. Thanks for the input!
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Intriguing slotting choices. I don't know if I could bring myself to use Grav Snare myself, but I like the use of procs and what you were able to fit into the build.
Like Abe said, it's somewhat daunting, commenting on your build. 
Do you prefer this to your defense build? I've been considering respecing mine to lose some defense in exchange for a less anemic blue bar.
Stone Daemon, I definitely prefer this to my defense build because it just fits my playstyle more... I'm still working on the defense build, as I'm not completely satisfied with how it plays (at least for my playstyle--I'm not suggesting it plays "badly" per say, just doesn't fit with how I normally like to play). I still think I'll be able to get it to where I want it though....
As for the Chaos™ build, here are the changes I've incorporated from the first one...
Firstly, after AIB asked if I used Jump Kick, I started re-evaluating all my powers I used on a regular basis in my attack chains, and realized I don't use Ebon Eye all that much either (I still use it, just not as a "regular")... So, I decided to sacrifice some slotting there for some other set bonuses I was going after, namely:
I started getting obsessed with trying to hit the 300% regen mark as well as hitting 1,400 HP at the same time, while maintaining a End Recovery/End Usage difference of at least 2 points per second. I also didn't want to dip below 180% recharge (with Hasten), because I like getting that 1-hour long 20% recharge base bonus, and running around with over 200% recharge just from myself before any outside bonuses from teammates come in... I like doing that, because it makes it much easier to hit the recharge cap on a full TF/Trial, which in turn allows me to have 4 "fluffies" out at once when I'm at full momentum. Needless to say, it's a beautiful sight, and brings a tear to my eye at just the thought of all that carnage... (haha)
AIB, I took your advice and switched out Jump Kick for SJ, because, let's face it... Being nitpicky about switching toggles between travel and battle is just--I'll admit to it--a little OCD. What I should do is make a keybind for switching between the two... Do we have a "bind expert" in the Kheldian section who may be able to help me with the proper command for this?
I also wanted to have 8 points of KB protection for situations where I may decide to use another Destiny Incarnate power besides Clarion (like rebirth, for example) while I'm on teams that may be providing me with other mez protections.
THB may slam me for my Tactics slotting, but after the other night where we got crushed by 54x8 Rikti because of Guardian bubbles, I decided to revert back to how I used to slot Tactics over a year ago to see if that makes any difference.
This "alternate" build also seems to have inadvertently brought up my ACC percentage to 96% as well, which can't be a bad thing...
So, here's the newer "improved" build (if you can call it that)...
Build link
Code:
"Alien"
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1633;747;1494;HEX;| |78DA8D94D94F135114C6EFB4536B4B596AA16591C50AB4B4D025A04451094B62241| |040409F4C33D04126A96D6DA94BE26E8CC6E88B1A7D738FD1175FD4E89FE283DB3F| |E0F22CEA78BCE7A34CE0C59B34BF3BE7DCF3DDD36FEEDC8953A39E97FB2F0E0AA56| |A24A3158BA9C35AA1B8A4A575E7CC82A167177441C33794A1F964564F8D2C69B9E2| |70C9C8A49D146F5D5D9C9A5C5CD4B345E3841E9B3B365FD032A961125B6E29E747F| |575F9A15241139EA95C2E131BD7B5BC913DEA960F33795D4F7BE57442CB1AF95246| |5B3672D9EAD595699D148DBCA8A7EDFBE977C923304C9B784248AA62F35366FB736| |6E9DF1A45AE51448026CDAA68AC675EF620254C873263E3FA83CCAE59709A199963| |764337401ED8B956D83F70EE0AE939A0E788736C538CE94E803D4C4F12845E90F49| |CE8D319E5581C3C49BA2ECE395C837619AB1AE0FA9ADDE01EE6965DE05EE635AAAD| |106E595BF18B63B57FC0DF4CFF0A2858BBED053F5FA5DA4ADE57AD7CC5BD54BD65D| |6BF06DF301BDF314F534D35D788EA3A45C6AE53CC0B5FBC5DACBD35CC6C89802130| |CA6CFB899EC8171FF47CD03B437A75D27D53D4DDE1758DB42EC07BD803C7B1479E1| |92F309345E60DAA6F403F0D3B38B6BD0FDCC90CF582FD6090BD3947B54D784F4DE3| |A819632A7E3A56ACAB36C3EB76781D81D7DDF0BA075EDF24BD56F4D2FAD126CFE5B| |64FE017F033B37D10B523CCF3541B9427D814419C950B14EB501CD2878E0ECA8554| |D1D90986C030D34B9E85F15FC235EC6D173CF6512E8A771F7D8CDE1F62FF47F0F53| |E7C7DC03C4B7BC7F04DC40608AA5DD4924E02B104B4BFD27154F04E951EEEFBFB5A| |CCA1ECE3EFD37680FBB48D31D539AE8F4C33938798DFAC7A61D6FBB116B32BB7B83| |FF536BEC9BB3863F7704ED4F23D22C42C2148391993DE9A116BDEA421126AF956A1| |4F132E6C58D5BB21D2B72132668DE01E19B7C6E0CF945ABEAB848277EDAA29DF41E| |62CE55DC8BB9AF86C4DB9E5AD27F3472C73CD329FB7CCDFFBA80C733956FCEB02FF| |319E5944FE02AA601747| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Hey Alien. I had/have walking pneumonia so I've been largely away from the internet for a couple of days letting myself recover... Sorry I didn't have a chance to look at this sooner.
First I like the build, you picked up more expensive goodies it looks like. Some of your choices are similar to mine. I'm kinda curious about the procs in your Mire and Unchain Essence, I generally only proc fast recharging powers due to the % chance of them going off in combat depleting the longer the cooldown is (for obvious reasons- the less you can use it, the less it can proc.)
I also prefer Ragnarok in Unchain due to the lack of a usable proc in the set like you do- I figure the set either has to go there or in Detonation. Of course I used 5 pieces of Javelin Volley in Detonation 'cause I'm a showoff, the Positron's Blast is probably a more reasonable slotting since you seem to want oodles of recharge- But to what end? To me, after I've hit enough to Perma my Eclipse, close-to-perma my Mire, and run my ST chain, everything else is gravy. You must really be fond of the gravy you mentioned in your last post. 
Some little nitpicky things:
Why did you use the Absolute Amazement tri for Inky Aspect? I'm assuming you wanted the recharge to be down for when you get mezzed through Clarion but with Nebulous Form you can hang out in magical phased land (except against select cheaters) for an extra .10 seconds and use and Endoplasm Exposure for better accuracy/stun results. That's what I do, but mine is also (I believe) the only level 53 in the game so you can't touch my baller status there. 
() I would consider one-slotting it to pick up some better enhancement values for Ebon Eye under your new slotting, since you have it in your ST chain it could use some more shiny red (or at least yellow) damage numbers in my opinion... But then I also slot my Gravity Well up past 100% damage because I'm quite possibly neurotic and just plain crazy, so YMMV.
Oh and also, skipping your best control power (Emanation) for a crappy pool power AOE that does 70 damage on a freakin' 30 second recharge (after your obscene recharge values) is something I'd call sacrilege if it was almost anyone else but you was doing it. So take note... We are watching you, and we are displeased.
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That was truly an anomaly (and a frustrating one at that.) We were getting some seriously unlucky spawns or something... A full Mire gives a better ToHit bonus than Rage, there's really not much hope for increasing it enough to make a difference at that point. At one point towards the end I had a full Mire and 6 yellow inspirations running and I still couldn't hit the bastards.. In a situation like that, Tactics isn't going to make much of a difference (sadly.)| THB may slam me for my Tactics slotting, but after the other night where we got crushed by 54x8 Rikti because of Guardian bubbles, I decided to revert back to how I used to slot Tactics over a year ago to see if that makes any difference. |
Edit: Just saw this
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| AIB, I took your advice and switched out Jump Kick for SJ, because, let's face it... Being nitpicky about switching toggles between travel and battle is just--I'll admit to it--a little OCD. What I should do is make a keybind for switching between the two... Do we have a "bind expert" in the Kheldian section who may be able to help me with the proper command for this? |
/bind key "Powexectoggleon Combat Jumping"
/bind key "powexectoggleon Super Jump"
(You don't need to tell the binds to powexectoggleoff the other power as each will automatically detoggle the other when it is activated. Same with Ninja Run. )
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I wondered where you were at... Was thinking those Rikti pissed you off so much you decided to quit... :P|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Hey Alien. I had/have walking pneumonia so I've been largely away from the internet for a couple of days letting myself recover... Sorry I didn't have a chance to look at this sooner.
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Good to hear you're getting better.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
First I like the build, you picked up more expensive goodies it looks like.
Some of your choices are similar to mine. I'm kinda curious about the procs in your Mire and Unchain Essence, I generally only proc fast recharging powers due to the % chance of them going off in combat depleting the longer the cooldown is (for obvious reasons- the less you can use it, the less it can proc.) |
The % chance of a proc going off in a power that affects multiple targets being higher (I'm sure a math whiz could explain it better) should definitely not be discounted.
Now, that said, I haven't been seeing the Gaussian's proc going off very often at all, so I may switch that out for something else when it's all said and done.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I also prefer Ragnarok in Unchain due to the lack of a usable proc in the set like you do- I figure the set either has to go there or in Detonation. Of course I used 5 pieces of Javelin Volley in Detonation 'cause I'm a showoff, the Positron's Blast is probably a more reasonable slotting since you seem to want oodles of recharge- But to what end? To me, after I've hit enough to Perma my Eclipse, close-to-perma my Mire, and run my ST chain, everything else is gravy. You must really be fond of the gravy you mentioned in your last post.
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4 fluffies is definitely more awesome than 3 fluffies, and when you can have 4 out for 20 full seconds, the amount of possible damage output that you are capable of jumps considerably. That, and having even faster recharge on powers like Spring Attack, Unchain Essence, and Sunless Mire is amazing.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Some little nitpicky things:
Why did you use the Absolute Amazement tri for Inky Aspect? I'm assuming you wanted the recharge to be down for when you get mezzed through Clarion but with Nebulous Form you can hang out in magical phased land (except against select cheaters) for an extra .10 seconds and use and Endoplasm Exposure for better accuracy/stun results. That's what I do, but mine is also (I believe) the only level 53 in the game so you can't touch my baller status there. () I would consider one-slotting it to pick up some better enhancement values for Ebon Eye under your new slotting, since you have it in your ST chain it could use some more shiny red (or at least yellow) damage numbers in my opinion... But then I also slot my Gravity Well up past 100% damage because I'm quite possibly neurotic and just plain crazy, so YMMV. |
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Oh and also, skipping your best control power (Emanation) for a crappy pool power AOE that does 70 damage on a freakin' 30 second recharge (after your obscene recharge values) is something I'd call sacrilege if it was almost anyone else but you was doing it. So take note... We are watching you, and we are displeased.
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1. It's KnockDown, not KnockBack.
2. It's actually a 287+ damage hit (not 87) with a fully saturated mire--and that's not even taking into consideration the mathematical values of Reactive Radial Flawless Interface... In Mid's, that power ups the damage capability to 337.2--I'm sure this can't be right, since I saw someone post that Mid's doesn't properly calculate those incarnate values (because of the "chance" values), but I hope you get the picture. Bottom line, it's a much larger damage burst than you're projecting it to be, and it's a MUCH larger damage hit than Gravitic Emination AND it keep the entire mob in the same spot they were originally in. So, if you're only getting an 87 damage hit off of Spring Attack when you use it (assuming you've used it), you're not doing it right. The most damage you can get from Gravitic Emanation (5-slotted with Positron's Blast) with a fully saturated mire in that same build is 83.5.
3. When I enter melee range, I like to stay in melee range. To make the best use of Gravitic Emination's cone attack, you have to either open with it (which I have ALWAYS hated doing, because the KB on the mob is unpredictable, and doesn't allow me to use Eclipse like I want to), or you have to leave melee range to use it. Both options are not options that fit into my playstyle.
4. I use it more often than I ever used Gravitic Emanation.
5. In that same build, using Gravitic Emanation instead of Spring Attack shows that Gravitic Emanation has a recharge value of about 15 seconds. Using Spring Attack in that same build has a recharge value of about 30 seconds. This means you can use Gravitic Emanation twice for every one time you can use Spring Attack.
With that in mind, Gravitic Emanation's damage values would be approximately 167 with a fully saturated mire, and Spring Attack's damage values would be approximately 287.
Both powers have a control factor. Gravitic Emanation Knocks Back (a considerable distance) and stuns. Spring Attack knocks the entire mob down (exactly the same as a Shield Charge). I think we can all agree that Gravitic Emanation's control abilities, although possibly slightly more annoying (depending on if the player likes KB or not), is definitely better over time.
However, Spring Attack's damage values are definitely better.
Therefore, I'm essentially sacrificing -some- control for better damage values.
And that, THB, isn't really sacrilege.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
That was truly an anomaly (and a frustrating one at that.) We were getting some seriously unlucky spawns or something... A full Mire gives a better ToHit bonus than Rage, there's really not much hope for increasing it enough to make a difference at that point. At one point towards the end I had a full Mire and 6 yellow inspirations running and I still couldn't hit the bastards.. In a situation like that, Tactics isn't going to make much of a difference (sadly.)
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Edit: Just saw this
You can use: /bind key "Powexectoggleon Combat Jumping" /bind key "powexectoggleon Super Jump" (You don't need to tell the binds to powexectoggleoff the other power as each will automatically detoggle the other when it is activated. Same with Ninja Run. ) |
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
One keybind:
/bind *key* "powexectoggleon combat jumping$$powexectoggleon super jump"
That should bounce you between the two.
Here's what I use for the superjumpers.
/bind j "powexectoggleon super jump$$+up$$+autorun"
This turns on SJ and sends you jumping forward on your way.
/bind h "powexectoggleon combat jumping$$-up$$-autorun"
This turns on CJ and stops you dead in your tracks.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
One keybind:
/bind *key* "powexectoggleon combat jumping$$powexectoggleon super jump" That should bounce you between the two. Here's what I use for the superjumpers. /bind j "powexectoggleon super jump$$+up$$+autorun" This turns on SJ and sends you jumping forward on your way. /bind h "powexectoggleon combat jumping$$-up$$-autorun" This turns on CJ and stops you dead in your tracks. |
Thanks a bunch!
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
What I use is:
/bind key "powexecname Combat Jumping$$powexecname Super Jump"
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It very much depends on the type of proc, or, rather, the effect of the proc.| The % chance of a proc going off in a power that affects multiple targets being higher (I'm sure a math whiz could explain it better) should definitely not be discounted. |
Example 1: Damage proc, should be thought about per target
A) Facing 5 enemies with 15 hp each. Dark Microsplosion (much like Dark Detonation except it's autohit to simplify %'s) does 10 damage. AlienOne's Absolution, which you have slotted, has a 20% chance to do 5 damage. You launch your attack at the group, one goes down because the proc triggered, the other 4 are still up and need to be hit again, just like they would if there were no proc. The only way this helped you is that there is one less enemy's worth of damage incoming. You have spent the same endurance and the same activation time either way. The chance of all enemies being hit by the proc, thus saving you the extra endurance cost of using the power again, is 1 in 3125(!).
B) Facing 1 enemy with 15 hp. Microblast (again, autohit Shadowblast) does 10 damage, and TwoHeadedBoy's Torture has a 20% chance of 5 damage. In this case, the chance of saving yourself the extra endurance and activation time of activating the power twice is 1 in 5.
Example 2: Self-affecting proc, like Force Feedback +rech, should be thought about per activation
A) Facing 1 enemy, using Microblast, you have StoneDaemon's Speed slotted which has 20% chance of extra recharge. Chances of not getting the extra recharge is 0.8.
B) Facing 5 enemies, using Dark Microsplosion, still with StoneDaemon's Speed, the chances of not getting your extra recharge are much lower at ~0.33.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
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Part of the reason why I committed the SACRILEGE of slotting Gravitic Emanation with Kinetic Crash(!) on my Warshade. Bumps the KB up to 24.69 Mag(!) ... which is enough to send just about anyone short of an AV flying, even if they've got KB Protection (I'm looking at you, Cimeroran Traitors...). Stun duration is 13.41 seconds, but the recharge (in the context of my build) is 16.17 seconds ... and it's actually pretty rare for me to need to Gravitic Emanation the same group of Mobs twice, so it's not as if a dramatically increased Stun Duration is a tremendous advantage (to me).
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Both powers have a control factor. Gravitic Emanation Knocks Back (a considerable distance) and stuns. Spring Attack knocks the entire mob down (exactly the same as a Shield Charge). I think we can all agree that Gravitic Emanation's control abilities, although possibly slightly more annoying (depending on if the player likes KB or not), is definitely better over time.
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Why is it sacrilege to slot Grav Em with Kinetic Crash? I've always been a huge proponent of making builds that fit playstyles and still get the job done well... If you're someone who enjoys the KB, that's awesome. It's just not something that fits with how I play. In fact, I'd probably be one of the happiest people in the world if all the Kheld KB was changed to KD, but then again, that's just me, and I think there would be a few people out there that would get pissed at the change, so it's not that big of a deal. I just deal with it as best as I can. If I had a mass immobilize to counteract it, that would be even better....
Anyway, I tweaked the build a little more... More experimentation! I kept the recharge at 180% (so I could hit 200% with base buffs and have 4 fluffies out while fighting), surpassed the 300% regen mark, alllllmost hit the 1400 HP mark (I think I was a tad bit over 1397), and kept my end recovery/usage difference above 2 full points.
The main thing I was trying to go for here besides maintaining those specific build goals was hitting the softcap for defense with an activated Vengeance (with Agility slotted) as well as changing around some slots to have as many procs in as many powers as possible.
No, Ebon Eye isn't slotted for full damage--it's slotted for the set bonuses--but, again, although I use it sporadically, I don't use it as a "regular" part of my attack chain. So, losing some slots on it (or not slotting it with 3 Hamis to max the damage) isn't that much of a loss for me. This isn't an AV solo-er build, this is an AoE-focused damage machine...
3rd Experiment
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"Alien"| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1588;740;1480;HEX;| |78DA65944B4F135114C7EF6DA7D69602AD05CA43402BD0D2D2D20AC6282AE191180| |9842AA02BD30C7490D1A16D28F591F836466374A34657AE34C6951B35FA515CF8FA| |02A26B51C7D3397FCA4426697EB7E7F1BF8F73EE9DBA38EE7B7DF4C6B0907563865| |A2A654FA92BA52535A7B96716742DBFA009FA8223068DA7F35A766C492D9446CBBA| |917393BD7323383BBDB8A8E54BFA792D39B73CBFA21AD951125BEDA8FAC7B5FFFC2| |3E51555F8328582919CD4D4A29E3FE3B5FECC14352D17B086536A5E2F960D75552F| |E4EB3722731A29EA45D14CD327E977D327F0990EF19C905644E205B3FF15B35C899| |1568C10211AB42BE2960F2661BAE48CC38ADB7E029C65EEC8307BE740E88568EF4E| |CE15CE4FECBB4D7A2EE8B9FAD9B62DC9F4A6C004D39706A117263D37AF4FBAE3583| |B7881743DEC73798638AFEE20D37F083C80F51E66760D3B2DDEA5DC1AE1ADE42A35| |BFD9D7F017FCC36C5A0705E7DCA19C5AECA3F60DAFA1EE3DB3F92DF88ED9FA81D91| |7E6DC4B945B8F7DD4FB25FB1A99F7C817806EA097E7DC196576C4C0081867EEFA85| |B5D1F90451BF20F42E935EA3550553343EE6B8568A0B618ED039CCA143EB2C6A683| |0634BE032F33EE9B520B7651FF406997B06C0BDCCC87E661AFBBE4AB96DD877DB24| |622798B289DA0DBAEDA841176A10410D62A8411F6A905873583DFA80743B91DBF99| |96DBBBF80DFC0AFCCAE61D6488C31AF516ED8EA705384D14BD7C9D62D2B5D6A3ABB| |BBC91751444F0F1801A3CC009D65147B8AFAF9CEF4E3EC83E48BA31EF167345F501| |1577C7C1F2BB6E41041718A068A4BB14DA61A38370D8DEFD496121A32C1EBFBB169| |73C9233CA7E318AFC731C154E6383F721C7A27996B76BD28EBFDDCB439E5433E17E| |511EEE613F4C553F489527D4784982584C967D9AC33346376BF499F4829B657C583| |8ED81235B0C532B8C53261B7E03D99B4DB703E19A5FA6609899A7AFCD5B7C89C25B| |F077E4F1BF752C65B397DF69FB68D55DB78DE36FE18A4348CD79B36C72F6DF67F55| |E5E8CD| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
P.S.
Microcosm, could you possibly put that into slightly more layman's terms? I've re-read it 3 times, and I"m still not exactly sure what you're saying there. In your example 1A, you mentioned 'AlienOne's Absolution, which you have slotted, has a 20% chance to do 5 damage. You launch your attack at the group, one goes down because the proc triggered"... However, you don't mention what I was originally talking about, which was the equation difference between using a proc in a ST power vs. an AoE power. You said "one goes down because the proc triggered," but what was the chance that he'd go down with a ST power hitting him vs. an AoE power hitting his entire group? I believe it was Arcanaville that was originally talking about it years ago, but I can't seem to find the original post on it. I seem to remember the chance that the proc would go off would be higher, because the "20% chance" was checking against each target in an AoE power, whereas there would only be a single "20% chance" check with a ST power vs. a single enemy... Get what I'm saying? What you seem to be talking about is how many times you use the power and the endurance used/saved by using and not using the power because the proc happened to go off once or twice...
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Obligatory Microsignal.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
It very much depends on the type of proc, or, rather, the effect of the proc.
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Example 1: Damage proc, should be thought about per target A) Facing 5 enemies with 15 hp each. Dark Microsplosion (much like Dark Detonation except it's autohit to simplify %'s) does 10 damage. AlienOne's Absolution, which you have slotted, has a 20% chance to do 5 damage. You launch your attack at the group, one goes down because the proc triggered, the other 4 are still up and need to be hit again, just like they would if there were no proc. The only way this helped you is that there is one less enemy's worth of damage incoming. You have spent the same endurance and the same activation time either way. The chance of all enemies being hit by the proc, thus saving you the extra endurance cost of using the power again, is 1 in 3125(!). |
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| B) Facing 1 enemy with 15 hp. Microblast (again, autohit Shadowblast) does 10 damage, and TwoHeadedBoy's Torture has a 20% chance of 5 damage. In this case, the chance of saving yourself the extra endurance and activation time of activating the power twice is 1 in 5. |
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Example 2: Self-affecting proc, like Force Feedback +rech, should be thought about per activation A) Facing 1 enemy, using Microblast, you have StoneDaemon's Speed slotted which has 20% chance of extra recharge. Chances of not getting the extra recharge is 0.8. B) Facing 5 enemies, using Dark Microsplosion, still with StoneDaemon's Speed, the chances of not getting your extra recharge are much lower at ~0.33. |
The answer is not a simple yes or no. You always have a greater chance of seeing the proc go off in an aoe than in a single target, no matter the proc, however the benefit is different depending on if the proc affects you or your enemy. Think of it this way: a proc that affects you (force feedback) has a higher chance of getting what you want if it hits multiple targets. A proc that affects your enemy (damage proc) has roughly the same results as adding a damage enhancement in that your overall damage will increase more in an aoe, but per target will be exactly the same as adding it to a single target attack. I would argue it might actually be worse because you will still spend the same number of attacks to take down the whole group, as I said above.
(I will edit this when I get to work to try to make it clearer).
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Actually, that does sound pretty clear...
So, essentially, damage procs have the same chance to go off in an AoE as in a ST power?
Well, that's disappointing. I was under the impression that adding the procs to my AoEs had a much higher chance of going off than adding the procs in my ST powers, and I actually had the impression (could have been a false one, but it certainly felt this way) that I saw the AoE ones pop off more often than the ST ones. I may have to re-think having all those procs on this build...
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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This may be a silly question, but did you have super jump and combat jumping binded to the same key? I use wasd to move so i binded it to the "q" key on some other SJ toons, and it can quickly become an easy fix to the whole "ugh, i have to turn off superjump now" problem. |
Originally Posted by AlienOne
However, the only thing I don't like about using Super Jump is the fact that if I activate it, it deactivates Combat Jumping.
Yes, that may be a minor nitpicky thing, but I find that if I've activated Super Jump (I've had it on my build before) to travel to a mission, I often forget to re-activate Combat Jumping before leaping into battle... It is a very minor nitpick, so that's why I'm still debating with myself on it. "Alien" |
I do forget some-times though, I only realize when my endurance bar is basically empty >.>
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Actually, that does sound pretty clear...
So, essentially, damage procs have the same chance to go off in an AoE as in a ST power? Well, that's disappointing. I was under the impression that adding the procs to my AoEs had a much higher chance of going off than adding the procs in my ST powers, and I actually had the impression (could have been a false one, but it certainly felt this way) that I saw the AoE ones pop off more often than the ST ones. I may have to re-think having all those procs on this build... "Alien" |
So it doesn't have a chance to fire off for every enemy it hits, or is it upon the first initial application then the proc spreads mob-wide?
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That's a good idea... I probably won't use "Q" or "E" though, as I already have them bound to switch between trays (#4 and #9--the ones that aren't readily on screen in the screenshots)|
Originally Posted by Bionut911
This may be a silly question, but did you have super jump and combat jumping binded to the same key? I use wasd to move so i binded it to the "q" key on some other SJ toons, and it can quickly become an easy fix to the whole "ugh, i have to turn off superjump now" problem.
I do forget some-times though, I only realize when my endurance bar is basically empty >.> |
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Just input it on Alien and tested it... That's exactly what I wanted. Perfect!|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
One keybind:
/bind *key* "powexectoggleon combat jumping$$powexectoggleon super jump" That should bounce you between the two. |
Thanks!
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Quote:
Again, there is a greater chance of it going off in general, but per target it is the exact same chance. So a damage proc adds the same average damage against a particular enemy in a single target attack as in an AoE. With a proc that affects you, the more enemies hit the better chance you have of getting your buff.
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
I assumed they have a greater chance of firing off, because they hit more targets. Like flipping a coin always has a 50/50 chance of landing heads, but you're more likely to get heads as a result if you flip the coin multiple times.
So it doesn't have a chance to fire off for every enemy it hits, or is it upon the first initial application then the proc spreads mob-wide? |
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Hey, guys...
Just wanted to show you guys what I've been experimenting with lately with Alien's "build 1."
I was playing with TwoHeadedBoy a day or two ago, and noticed that he was using Nebulous form primarily for its secondary effect--as a travel power.
That got me to thinking... What if I used that as an excuse to wean myself off of Super Speed--one of my two favorite "gotta have it" powers (the other being Vengeance)?
I also used to have Provoke, dropped it for a long, long time, and then recently picked it back up, because lately on TFs, I was getting annoyed by how my pets were picking up aggro and dying too quickly.
Something else I started experimenting with was using a 5-slotted set of Gravitational Anchors rather than a 5-slotted set of Absolute Amazements... Why? Well, I found that when I took 3 of those slots in Inky Aspect and moved them elsewhere, I didn't lose a heck of a lot of anything--maybe a few seconds of stun time, but that is really unnoticeable, since most of the time the guys who are stunned (LTs and minions) go down in less time than what the stun duration is when it's 2-slotted.
However, I still kept 2 of the AA's because of the wonderful recovery bonus associated with purple sets.
Also, in preparation for the upcoming i22 "fix" to Hamidon enhancements, I opted to switch back to my "classic" enhancement slotting for Eclipse that I had suggested for human-form shaders when I originally wrote my guide for it back in the day--specifically for the combination of recharge, resistance, and endurance bonuses.
Finally, I wanted to experiment a little with "Spring Attack," since it's a new power and I'm a huge sucker for "MOAR AoE!!!" Relatively speaking (and this is something TwoHeadedBoy let me know before I even respec'd into getting the power), the AoE damage isn't the greatest compared to it's recharge time... However, on my high recharge build, it's up every 30 seconds, and with a fully saturated mire, I'm getting a cool 338 damage hit on it--every 30 seconds, that ain't bad for an AoE--especially if I'm using it every 2nd mob (i.e., Eclipse/mire/Gravity Well/Unchain Essence/Dark Detonation/Spring Attack to next adjacent mob and begin on "normal" attack chain)...
Anyway, just wondering what you guys' thoughts on this would be... I definitely wouldn't recommend it as a "be all, end all" build for human-formers, but thus far, I'm actually enjoying it even more than I thought I would!
New Build
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)