That is correct except when the -to hit is resisted - which is against anything worth using the power on.
But without resistance, they are equivalent like that.
Great. Thanks!
(And therefore, my chance of not being hit would surpass the softcap because -to hit is not defense?)
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Nope. The sopftcap is the soft cap. It doesn't matter how you get there, it is still the cap.
30 def + -20 to hit is just as much overkill as 50 def.
The real cap is at 5% base chance to be hit, not at a particular defense number.
Quote:
Really? I find that interesting since -to hit is NOT defense, so I assumed it would not be factored in. So the softcap is not a "defense" soft cap, but a chance of being hit soft cap (Sorry not trying to word smith it to death, trying to understand it)
|
Originally Posted by rsclark
Nope. The sopftcap is the soft cap. It doesn't matter how you get there, it is still the cap.
30 def + -20 to hit is just as much overkill as 50 def. The real cap is at 5% base chance to be hit, not at a particular defense number. |
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Correct. The softcap is not something they built into the game and calculate. It is simply something that emerged naturally from the facts of the underlying math.
What you're really talking about here isn't Soft Cap, it's Hard Floor. There's a minimum 5% chance for a mob to hit you, no matter how much Defense you have or how much -ToHit the mob is stuck with.
"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash
Obligatory wiki links:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Defense
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Basically, it's slightly modified D&D rules.
On a 20-sided die, if you roll a 20, you get a "critical success", and score a lucky hit no matter how much the odds were stacked against you.
If you roll a 1, you get a "critical miss" or "critical failure", and swing your sword wildly, completely missing the stone giant who's right in front of you. Consider yourself lucky that you didn't stab your own foot.
A 1 out of 20 chance corresponds exactly to 5%.
While CoH uses floating point numbers and is effectively an almost-infinite-sided die, ALL hit rolls are capped a minimum of 5%, and a maximum of 95% chance to hit. This goes for rolls done by players and NPCs alike. The defense soft cap is when you get so much defense, that base NPC rolls are always 5% or lower. To-hit debuffs can get you there as well, but are less reliable due to combat modifiers and debuff resistance.
(I'm sure someone will step in and explain how it's actually capped TWICE, once before Accuracy is applied, and once after. But this post is long enough as it is. 
)
Quote:
That's not quite accurate Depending on how the -to hit debuff is applied, it may not actually be a real -20%. If you need to score a hit to apply the debuff, and your chance to hit is say, 75%, your -20% is really only -15% because it'll miss 25% of the time. If the target is higher level than you, or resists debuffs, your effectiveness is further reduced due to the purple patch.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
30 def + -20 to hit is just as much overkill as 50 def.
|
For example, if the target is +2 to you, the effectiveness of your debuff will be multiplied by .8.
For these reasons, defense is probably more effective than -to hit in general, but -to hit is still worthwhile.
Finally, most ATs have no defense debuff resistance, and there are many, many attacks which debuff defense. So even you do hit the soft cap, in many instances your defense will be quickly debuffed with "cascade failure" once you do get hit (which is why you want to maximize defense in the first place). That's why it's not really overkill to exceed the soft cap, especially if you have no defense debuff resistance. Though it's generally impractical to do so.
The soft cap is no kind of cap at all: it's really more accurate to call it "the point of diminishing returns for defense."
Also, it most be noted in many cases (iTrials and higher-level enemies, for example) NPCs have a higher than 50% base to-hit chance, which means a higher soft cap.
Quote:
Any given amount of -tohit is equivalent to the same amount of +defense, yes. There are two caveats here:|
Originally Posted by shaggy5
What I mean is this--if a character has, for example, 10% melee defense and a 10% -to hit debuff on enemies, is it similar/equal to 20% defense?
|
1) Tohit debuffs only help against debuffed enemies, obviously, so Time's Juncture doesn't help against the guy shooting you from 50 feet away
2) Tohit debuffs are equivalent to the same amount of defense as the debuff that actually gets through, which is NOT necessarily the same as the debuff you apply. Against an enemy your own level, your 10% tohit debuff acts just like a 10% defense buff. Against a +4 enemy, the purple patch reduces your debuff to .48 of its normal effectiveness, or -4.8%, so it's as good as 4.8% defense. A level 50 AV has 85% resistance to tohit debuffs, so against them it'd be worth 1.5% defense. If you're fighting that 50 AV and you're level 46, you get hit by their AV resistance AND the purple patch, so only -.72% of your debuff would get through, making it as good as .72% defense.
On the other hand, being above your enemies would make it more effective, such as when you're running around with a level shift fighting level 50 enemies.
I have a question about the relationship between -to hit and defense. I am aware of what defense is in this game and of its softcap. I know that -to hit is not defense, but is it wrong to assume that it acts in a similar fashion?
What I mean is this--if a character has, for example, 10% melee defense and a 10% -to hit debuff on enemies, is it similar/equal to 20% defense?
Am I seeing something wrong?
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers