My character isn't a god!

Hm, that wasn't how I read it. Prometheus seemed to be saying "this is what will happen to YOU if we can't stop Battalion". All Incarnates draw power from the Well directly, as opposed to non-Incarnates who are barely connected and draw little or no power.

Apology redacted, as you're using it as ammunition against my friend. I'd like to ask that you keep as civil as you and I have; that is, the insults need to stop since he hasn't insulted you once.

Reppu, Dechs hasn't insulted you in the slightest. Additionally, you shouldn't act SHOCKED when someone vehemently disagrees with your opinions - you admit in your own signature that your posts are HIGHLY opinionated and aggressive!

Don't put words in his mouth saying he attacked you ad hominem, and then call him "an angry child" in the next few paragraphs.

Agreed with the above and Nal throughout this thread as well.

And that signature/disclaimer is a load of bullocks.
I am a highly opinionated person who does not hold his tongue... And I don't get people reacting negatively to me all the time... The likely reason? because I have respect for other people and I tend to post, and speak, respectfully (some people prove that doing so won't get anywhere and I may fire off a little more roughly, but it is rare).

The reactions to Reppu's posts (and it is not just within this thread, from what I gather), are not because of some strongly opinionated, "aggressive" stance that the person post with... it's because of the egocentric stance and disrespect towards those who have different views. That's not aggressiveness... it is self-defeating.

Reppu may think that other people are upset, angry or hurt by the views expressed... as opposed to seeing that people were just trying to point out the inherent flaws in the holier-than-thou approach to things, in general.
Within the confines of the super egocentric, any such responses mean that the all-important opinions of master have been met with disappointment in witnessing that the little snowflakes aren't as important as they had wished.

Sadly, it is the egocentric that are the precious snowflakes, living in their crystal tanks, firing off public dismissals as though they were fireballs and seeing intelligent responses as nothing but burning corpses-to-be.

Haha... apologies for waxing somewhat poetically...

I should have simply opted to not respond to him. Whatever, again, he's not worth the time and neither has this entire argument. What little progression I have made in this thread gets side-railed because he is unhappy with me, and not just my opinion.

And since it paints me as a villain to point out the levels he's going to to be 'right', which you all seem to be willing to ignore in favor of pointing out what I am doing 'wrong', there's no reason to continue this, bluntly, stupid, childish exchange between children pretending to be adults. This is for ALL parties involved, not just people I disagree with. I've been a few levels of childish as well.

Either way, Dechs is someone I HAVE respected in the past, but his persistence in aggressive and borderline violent retort is to be taken note of, as much as it's being ignored and hand-waved off, while my own are being chewed apart because, again; minority opinion, minority support.

Then again, I am not here to gain 'approval' from anyone. I simply wanted to speak my mind. I did. It dragged on far, far too long.

@Nalrok: Apologies again for that, but to each their own. But if you believe he hasn't insulted me, that's... blind of you, in respects to how you view your friend. He has, maybe not as bluntly as I have in return, but he has been insulting and rude. You're free to ignore it because he is your friend or it's not as obvious as my end, but that doesn't mean he's not insulting me and is TRYING to. And if he claims otherwise, then it's a case of 'badly worded'.

@Electric: I think the main difference is, I don't offer respect right off the bat. My version of our shared reality is not quite so gumdrops and rainbows. Respect should be earned, and while it is self-defeating to not offer respect at first, and thusly not gain respect in return... I don't mind this stance. If someone earns my respect through how I do things, then I know I've found a genuine friend. Maybe I have less friends than all of you, but the ones I do have are ones who won't abandon be because the tides have changed. That's more than enough for me.

@Brenn: As I've said to Nalrok, yes. Yes he has. Again, you're either blind to it because of the difference between subtle and blunt, or it's opinionated. I DO feel he has insulted me, I DO feel he has been rude in return for all his screaming at me for being opinionated, and I DO feel this entire mess is, as Reiska put it, a really perverted tango.

If Reiska can see it for what it is, can Dechs 'friends' rub a little bit of the sleep from their eyes and realize that as well? Yes? No?

Either way, I don't really care at this point. Dechs is allowed to act childish and gets a cookie, I act childish and get the paddle. This? This is just how friends work, I guess. Which is why I can't 'win' here, if there was anything to be 'won' at all.

But, I stand by what I said; Dechs has been acting like a hypocrite and a child, as much as I've been acting childish and rude.

You are not a victim.

Except I am innocent, Reppu. I may have had harsh words, but they have never been personal insults. Four additional people have tried to tell you this now. I wish we could have discussed this in a civil manner.

Enjoy yourself in game.

I honestly hope that you can distance yourself from this thread and then come back to it and read it through and see that you're incorrect about what you keep insisting Dechs did and, more importantly, realize that Dechs said nothing that should be taken in any way that you keep insisting.

It's really coming off rather oddly to me and I honestly hope that you can just see the truth eventually.

Also, the whole thing about "respect after it is proven to be deserved" is exactly why we have so many problems from people (and, no, you are far from the only person who holds to this process). The worst part about that angle is... If you only give respect when it has been proven that you deserve it... when and how exactly do you think you'll be proving that you deserve it?

Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

It doesn't work if you don't do the first part.

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone I meet. I'm strong enough to handle being wrong, because I know the beauty in having others prove me right.

Anyway, I'm not harping on that philosophy too much... I just felt like sharing my view on it, since you mentioned it.

As you should, too.

Also, let me stress something one more time before walking away; Dechs was insulting me, but not in an obvious, easy to point out manner. His choice of mannerisms, wording, and conversation was insulting. It's a case of subtle enough to insult only the person it's directed to.

Do other people find it insulting? No. I had other people look it over to confirm that theory of mine. BUT, this does not mean it was not insulting to me, which is was. And that's what matters; he insulted me, but refuses to acknowledge anything he said COULD be insulting, even if it WAS insulting.

It's just a case of opinion. I felt insulted. He should acknowledge it, but feels he did not do so, and feels justified to state such.

If you look at it from an ironic point of view... I feel the same way. I don't attempt to insult people (unless I AM), feel bad when I do, and apologize when it's pointed out.

You can easily insult someone and not even word it purposefully to do so. That is how opinions work. That is how internet conversations tend to turn out.

But, I'll just state it one more time, tl;dr - Dechs insulted me. You all may think he couldn't have, but he did. That's all. You may disagree, but I will still have been insulted.

I'll note that I do think some of the epic ATs' powers are suitably generic that they can be taken in a concept that isn't that AT. Kheldian form-shifting isn't generic enough, but human-form powers are (it's just light/dark energy stuff). Bane mace powers and crabs in general aren't really generic enough, but huntsman (rifle only) builds are. What you get is a riflesman with exceptional tactical training. And I can't really think of much about Widows that is visably tied to their Arachnos origin. The claws are ones available to Claws users on other melee AT. And the claws/mental blast combo isn't even one I recall seeing at all on Widows in game anyway--they've been pure claws or pure mental blast. For SoAs in general, you would just have to ignore the first costume (Arachnos-specific) you get and never use it. Unless at some point you roleplay disguising yourself as a SoA like in... I think it was one of the new redside intro arcs from when Mercy Isle got a redo?

And I'll admit to not having had read all of the Well lore there was--I was mostly going off the impressions I got from Mender Ramisel's arc. I just last night had an extended conversation with Prometheus, which I hadn't done before because I had thought he was only one of those NPCs there for systems explanation, like the Guy Who Knows Something at the Black Market and such. I hadn't realized he was basically a big lore info-dump. Anyone know of any other sources, or places I can talk to him? (I couldn't get him to talk about Batallion.) My talk with him's given me some very interesting thoughts about how the Well relates to my characters.

For those who haven't, I strongly suggest having a talk with him. It sounds more like the Well is more of a general embodiment of potential and power which people draw upon both consciously and unconsciously. So if your character does something that normal humans or even superheroes can't manage, they might be unconsciously drawing upon the potental shared by all humans, which the Well embodies.

I'm still figuring out where one of my character stands in regards to this, since she sort of does some of the same things the Well does (provides power to others). Mainly because she largely operates as a god of growth (things like banishment rituals and the God-Killer Sword would work against her), though definitely not as powerful as, say, Mot or Rularuu. I think in her case I'm comfortable enough having her play at Incarnate level without drawing from the Well--the Well embodies human potential, and she's more spirit than human, with alternative capablities and limits. For a few of my characters and one of another player's characters, she acts as a source for their powers in much the same way the Well does (and given the dramatic and weird transformations she tends to visit upon them, severence from her would definitely be lethal). Her generosity with the power she hands out tends to leave her less strong personally than she would otherwise be. I play her as Mind/Empathy--Empathy because of the power she grants to others, and Mind because she plays off people's desires in the same way that Mot plays off their despairs. Except that instead of absorbing the ones who give in fully to her, she makes them into her 'children'.

As for other characters, some of them I haven't really given that much thoughts. A fair number likely will incorporate the Well when (and if) they reach a sufficient power level (not all of them consciously). There're a couple or so extradimensional characters so that come from a sort of psychic collective which they draw their power from (separating them from it wouldn't be outright lethal but would be mentally tramatic, making them feel forsaken and alone). Those ones could reach Incarnate power levels, but often operate below it depending on how much of their collective's power is provided to them. A lot of regular threats wouldn't warrant that much power being diverted to them, but something like Mot would.

One of mine will never actually reach an Incarnate power level, but she operates more through trickery as she's a living dream entity. So all things she might do to you, including (eventual) Incarnate-level powers she might seem to exhibit are pure illusion. For example, the people she 'heals' and 'rezzes' were never actually hurt since she created the illusion of them being hurt in the first place. Though rather than the obvious Illusion Controlller, she's a Dark/Dark Controller because of her nature as a Nightmare (and because the ways the combo can screw with enemies just seemed to fit for a Nightmare).

EDIT: I just tried talking to Prometheus on a character who's done all of the trials instead of only some. He's more informative the more trials you've done. That explains why I missed out on so much of this lore. And, wow, some interesting relevations. But it gets more and more spoilery.

Prometheus also gives additional info if you've cleared the entire Who Will Die? chain.