Archetype desirability on teams.
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2012-01-21 23:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I ran one of those and it ended great. May depend on the scrappers though. |
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
It's not that hard. But at that level you do want a lot of support. Trust me, I once ran an ITF at +3 with six scrappers. Did not end well.
|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Awesome Scrapper PuG on Apex|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
My point being that buffs and debuffs stack, easily pushing stats from nearly maxed to maxed, and having more potent effects the more you have them. A -30% resist on an enemy, for example is roughly equivalent to giving the entire team a longer lasting Build Up, and the only way to truly beat that on a team is if the blaster/scrapper/brute/stalker/whatever you add increases the overall raw DPS of the entire group by 30% + the raw damage the support AT would've brought. Once you get to teams of 5+ damage dealers, that's really hard to do, so after awhile the usefulness of just damage dealing ATs bottoms out. Now, similar things can be said about other abilities: Usually in the form of whether or not the extra damage can kill things fast enough or if the aggro drawn is equivalent to what would be recovered by a heal, what would be mitigated by mezz, and the defense/resist increases from a support AT.
Of course, Support ATs bottom out, too. Once an enemy is held, it is held. Once you are healed, you're healed. Once your defense/resistance caps, it doesn't go higher. Support ATs bottom out later due to the variety of ways you can buff and debuff, and that is why full defender teams get revered so much. The best teams, therefore, are the ones that are a good mix of support ATs and damage ATs. It is not to specific on what you need, as long as you have someone there to do it. The six scrapper team was a PUG, too. |
Same Scrapper PuG on Tin Mage
That is a nice PuG!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
To be fair those runs took 46-56 minutes, that's a long time for those tfs.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
|
Quote:
They were still new at that point |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
To be fair those runs took 46-56 minutes, that's a long time for those tfs.
|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I c wut U did there. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
This is my evaluation of the desirability of various archetypes on teams, and is based on my personal opinions and experiences. As such it should be taken with both a grain of salt and a middling sized salt cellar.
Any and all ATs when played by unpleasant and/or incompetent players: Low. Any and all ATs when played by entertaining and/or highly skilled players: High. Any and all ATs when played by players who are not especially good or bad: Medium, depending on team composition and ratio/presence of previous two categories. That's pretty much it. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I avoid teams who request certain ATs also. Very few things in this game require a specific combination of ATs to complete. |
Originally Posted by _eeek_
THIS! A hundred times THIS!
Does anyone but me see LFM requests for teams/TF's* that want specific AT's and think this is a team to probably avoid? Or, conversely, decide to join a team you otherwise have no interest in because the leader says "any AT or level is more than welcome"? *Ok, pre-level shifts, the STF or LRSF are somewhat excepted |
My favorite though is when someone requests a DeBuffer. I only play scrappers and brutes, so I will respond with "I DeBuff HP."
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Quote:
We did several of those on Test when Apex and TM were still in beta. Just to prove it could be done. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
|
Never discount a scrapper or brute. To those who are die hard scrapper players that is a challenge. Scrappers love challenge, just look at the scrapper boards.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Quote:
Let the tank take point? Pff utter madness unless I know that tank personally. Otherwise my blaster IS on point blank mode. Why? Because I only ever rely on myself and my characters build. Be he blaster,scrapper,brute,or even a stalker I am on lead even with 7 tanks along for the ride until I see proof they are more then mindless meat shields.
|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
As far as my experiences go, you can run all of the even level content in the game with any mix of ATs and powers and do fine.
The exception to this, however, is when you are doing max difficulty content. I'm not talking about the itrials here (those you can run with nearly any mix of ATs). When you run regular missions at +4/x8, generally you have a certain set of roles that you want to fulfill on the team, and certain ATs fulfill those roles better than others. For example, if you need someone who can run into the group and soak up aggro, you're best bet is a tank or a brute, and your worst bet is a blaster. When it gets to that level, what each AT and even what each power set brings to the table needs to be considered. |
Quote:
qft!
|
Originally Posted by zyphoid
we did several of those on test when apex and tm were still in beta. Just to prove it could be done.
Never discount a scrapper or brute. To those who are die hard scrapper players that is a challenge. Scrappers love challenge, just look at the scrapper boards. |
Quote:
And rightly so, I'd say.|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
...and that is why full defender teams get revered so much...
|
But it wasn't always the case. When four of my regular CoH-playing friends and I ran our all-Defender team back in 2006, we were routinely laughed at by passing solo players. And the rare times we would add another player (usually to fulfill TF requirements), they almost always expressed skeptical surprise at having joined an entire team of Defenders. But that surprise always turned to utter astonishment (and tearful joy) when they saw how fast we chewed through mobs. AVs were usually running away from us in less than sixty seconds, which many players had never seen before.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Quote:
Or you can just solo at +4/x8 w/ bosses and not worry about it.|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
As far as my experiences go, you can run all of the even level content in the game with any mix of ATs and powers and do fine.
The exception to this, however, is when you are doing max difficulty content. I'm not talking about the itrials here (those you can run with nearly any mix of ATs). When you run regular missions at +4/x8, generally you have a certain set of roles that you want to fulfill on the team, and certain ATs fulfill those roles better than others. For example, if you need someone who can run into the group and soak up aggro, you're best bet is a tank or a brute, and your worst bet is a blaster. When it gets to that level, what each AT and even what each power set brings to the table needs to be considered. |
Oh, nevermind. I see the scrapper/brute contingent has already spoken.
Edit2: and yea, I miss hearing about the exploits of the Repeat Offenders.
Be well, people of CoH.
My point being that buffs and debuffs stack, easily pushing stats from nearly maxed to maxed, and having more potent effects the more you have them. A -30% resist on an enemy, for example is roughly equivalent to giving the entire team a longer lasting Build Up, and the only way to truly beat that on a team is if the blaster/scrapper/brute/stalker/whatever you add increases the overall raw DPS of the entire group by 30% + the raw damage the support AT would've brought. Once you get to teams of 5+ damage dealers, that's really hard to do, so after awhile the usefulness of just damage dealing ATs bottoms out. Now, similar things can be said about other abilities: Usually in the form of whether or not the extra damage can kill things fast enough or if the aggro drawn is equivalent to what would be recovered by a heal, what would be mitigated by mezz, and the defense/resist increases from a support AT.
Of course, Support ATs bottom out, too. Once an enemy is held, it is held. Once you are healed, you're healed. Once your defense/resistance caps, it doesn't go higher. Support ATs bottom out later due to the variety of ways you can buff and debuff, and that is why full defender teams get revered so much. The best teams, therefore, are the ones that are a good mix of support ATs and damage ATs. It is not to specific on what you need, as long as you have someone there to do it.
The six scrapper team was a PUG, too.
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide