Yes 3yrs ago.
Mids doesn't factor in DR.
@Trace
@Trace II
yea i was doing research on deminishing returns, i dont understand why mids. never updated their stats to show deminishing returns, this has been going around since i13, people need to know the truth about their builds
Maybe it's for a similar reason the devs don't fix/change pvp itself - not many ppl bother with it,
so it's difficult to justify putting much effort to change it or keep things up-to-date...
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
but most people dont deal with pvp BECAUSE of what the devs. did to it in issue13, i could be fine with what the devs. did if mids designer fixed their pvp stats to accuratly show what your stats look like, its been 8issues and no change, i mean i really feel disapointed for working really hard on my pvp toon on mids and in the game itself, countless hours spent into getting the rare/pvp ios and the money i put into it also, and now to see that its wrong. and ive seen the comments about this all over the forum and people have been asking for a change ever since the DR started.
is there ANY way i can get accurate stats for my pvp toon without going through the all the incredibly complicated mathmatical system?
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Not really.........
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Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
is there ANY way i can get accurate stats for my pvp toon without going through the all the incredibly complicated mathmatical system?
|
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
ok well thank you for your help and understanding on all this, i believe that if pvp is this broken and messed up they should just remove it from the game until they fix it, my love for this game has really dropped after learning all this and i hope they do the right thing and do what EVERYONE has been asking them to do for the last 3 years, and that is fix pvp.
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Good luck, but don't hold your breath.|
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
ok well thank you for your help and understanding on all this, i believe that if pvp is this broken and messed up they should just remove it from the game until they fix it, my love for this game has really dropped after learning all this and i hope they do the right thing and do what EVERYONE has been asking them to do for the last 3 years, and that is fix pvp.
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There are myriad problems with PVP (not the least of which is, not everyone agrees with what EXACTLY constitutes "fixed").
There's also the fact that they could spend hours/days/weeks/months/years "fixing" PVP and maybe only affect a few hundred people. Or they can spend the same time on portions of the the game directly utilized by the majority of the game population.
Maybe if someone wanted to plunk down some tall cash to pay/bribe Paragon Studios into working on PVP and get it somewhere on the "To-Do" list ahead of "photorealistic butt-wiping animations", you might eventually see something. But likely not until the devs have exhausted just about EVERY other possibility of the game.
The fact is, PVP was nothing but a tacked-on afterthought here.
By themselves, the powersets are INHERENTLY unbalanced. Combination A/B/C will always win out over combination X/Y/Z. And balancing the powers changes the way the game plays in VERY non-trivial ways. PVP is pretty much it's own separate game with only a veneer of sameness (the visuals) to link them.
Honestly, I'd love to see the PVP'ers get a bone tossed their way. *I* still wouldn't play PVP. But that's just me. I can still understand the draw of wanting to test yourself against other players.
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Ok Imagine not having Mids at all 
Also, think about that it took someone else to come up with Mids builder
(Not Paragon Studios or NC Soft)
So, What is City of Heroes doing to help players maximize their knowledge about the very game they have produced for their customers ?
I don't see CoH coming up with a hero planner for us.
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very true|
Originally Posted by _CLUE_
Ok Imagine not having Mids at all
Also, think about that it took someone else to come up with Mids builder (Not Paragon Studios or NC Soft) So, What is City of Heroes doing to help players maximize their knowledge about the very game they have produced for their customers ? I don't see CoH coming up with a hero planner for us. |
also like i said before i believe their isnt alot of pvping going on in the game because of what they did back in issue13, if they actually did fix and balance pvp then their would be alot more people jumping into it. I myself feel like giving up on pvp after knowing all this, but pvp is a major reason why i like the game in the begining, if i decide to stop pvping because of all this i may just cancel my account all together because i already did everything in the game, i made toons to lvl50 and got the incarnates and did the trials, whats left? certainly not pvp, so just stop playing or move on to another game, hopefully one that will have a better pvp system
During I18 I created a spreadsheet that was for calculating how DR affected attacks but scrapped it after I finished all of the scrapper sets. I just ended up losing all interest in pvp.
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Even when the developers make such tools (in other games), they are usually discarded in favor of the fan-made version. The developers have more important things to do (at least, in their minds) than maintain, update, and improve their build planner.|
Originally Posted by _CLUE_
So, What is City of Heroes doing to help players maximize their knowledge about the very game they have produced for their customers ?
I don't see CoH coming up with a hero planner for us. |
Plus, at this point, with Mids already existing, why would Paragon devote all the time it would take to create a new tool just to do what Mids already does for free?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Even when the developers make such tools (in other games), they are usually discarded in favor of the fan-made version. The developers have more important things to do (at least, in their minds) than maintain, update, and improve their build planner.
Plus, at this point, with Mids already existing, why would Paragon devote all the time it would take to create a new tool just to do what Mids already does for free? |
lately the only thing ive been seeing the devs do is pull out new melee/travel powers which im not sure if alot of people asked for those things or not but it certainly isnt nessessary
going back to my original post, if mids could at least apply the deminishing returns to their pvp stats, i would be satisfied with that. thats the very lease mids. or even the devs. could do to make the pvp fans happy.
Quote:
I look at most purchases this way. If I buy the newest Canon camera I would like the manual that comes with it. Or if you buy a car often it comes with a manual. Its good business. It doesn't leave the customer wondering or researching for what to do with their product. |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Even when the developers make such tools (in other games), they are usually discarded in favor of the fan-made version. The developers have more important things to do (at least, in their minds) than maintain, update, and improve their build planner.
Plus, at this point, with Mids already existing, why would Paragon devote all the time it would take to create a new tool just to do what Mids already does for free? |
Another side note, Mac users can't run Mids (unless they have windows on their Mac)
People don't have all the time in the world to sit down and play a game. Less alone sit down, learn another program to learn how to build a character for PvP, ask for advice, realize they made mistakes, have to respec their character again, slot it just right, then go back to playing to only find out that they wasted countless hours farming for the 28 billion dollar pvp character they just made.
Believe me I have done it and I'm still doing it but the thought has crossed my mind again... Should I leave this game again and see if they will fix it another 2 years from now?
Yeah, as for the developers coming up with flying carpets and fireworks...Really? Did the PvP community ask for this? Oh the majority asked for this... wait! Did the majority ask for this?
Nah I think its marketing over riding developers at this point, and all of us are buying straight into it. Yeah maybe its time to shoot the dead horse one last time
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Build planners fall under the purview of "nice but not necessary".|
Originally Posted by _CLUE_
I look at most purchases this way. If I buy the newest Canon camera I would like the manual that comes with it. Or if you buy a car often it comes with a manual. Its good business. It doesn't leave the customer wondering or researching for what to do with their product.
|
Remember, the game is supposed to be a time and resource sink. Build planners, by definition, break this. As they allow you to see a build and gain a general idea of raw-numbers performance before you actually spend a single Inf or burn a single merit.
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| Another side note, Mac users can't run Mids (unless they have windows on their Mac) |
[qote]People don't have all the time in the world to sit down and play a game. Less alone sit down, learn another program to learn how to build a character for PvP, ask for advice, realize they made mistakes, have to respec their character again, slot it just right, then go back to playing to only find out that they wasted countless hours farming for the 28 billion dollar pvp character they just made. [/quote]
Yet people got along without Mids before. And see above where I mention the fact that the game is supposed to be a time sink. So this particular objection would be met with "Boo hoo hoo".
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| Believe me I have done it and I'm still doing it but the thought has crossed my mind again... Should I leave this game again and see if they will fix it another 2 years from now? |
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| Yeah, as for the developers coming up with flying carpets and fireworks...Really? Did the PvP community ask for this? |
So the answer to your questions are:
- Yes! Really!
- No the PVP community didn't ask for this but who cares? They're catering to a community base several orders of magnitude larger than the PVP community.
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|
Oh the majority asked for this... wait! Did the majority ask for this? Nah I think its marketing over riding developers at this point, and all of us are buying straight into it. Yeah maybe its time to shoot the dead horse one last time
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Simply because it's not aimed at Joe-PVP doesn't mean a damn thing.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
You do understand that the PvP community is a PART of the COH community. So please don't come in here and attempt to justify the DEV's total lack of support to the COH Community on PvP issues. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
The CoH community is SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the PVP community.
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And also drop the planners are nice but not necessary crap.
Quote:
| As they allow you to see a build and gain a general idea of raw-numbers performance before you actually spend a single Inf or burn a single merit. |
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
Quote:
The only reason this hasn't happened, is because it would take actual work to remove it, so it's not worth their time. It's easier for them to simply pretend it doesn't exist, which is what they've been doing. If you look at any ad created for CoH in the last few years, you won't find a single mention of PvP. Anywhere. Not even as an additional "oh by the way, the game has PvP too". From the ads, if you didn't know otherwise, you would assume that the game has no PvP whatsoever. This is obviously not an accident.|
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
i believe that if pvp is this broken and messed up they should just remove it from the game until they fix it
|
As far as mids and DR, the reason it's not incorporated in there is because nobody knows the exact values of DR. The devs have always kept it a complete secret. And while things like that can usually be figured out by testing, DR is different. The reason is simple. It was created on a completely random whim of the devs, and it has absolutely zero logic of any kind. Some things get affected by DR a whole lot, some don't at all. Why? Because some guy randomly decided to do it that way on a whim. Every part of DR is completely random.
At some point people tried to figure it all out, but it's so complicated and random, it would take a ridiculous amount of time to do. And for what? For a game that has a total of like 50 competitive players? And a dev team that acts like PvP doesn't even exist in the game? It becomes clear why DR stayed a mystery.
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Originally Posted by Psyrene
You do understand that the PvP community is a PART of the COH community.
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NO! REALLY?
What I'm saying is that, to some, the PVP community is most or all they see of the game. But the total community of the greater game is several orders of magnitude larger than the PVP community alone.
In another way, yes I know that the PVP community is a part of the whole CoH community. A small part.
Illustration:
Quote:
| So please don't come in here and attempt to justify the DEV's total lack of support to the COH Community on PvP issues. |
Quote:
| And also drop the planners are nice but not necessary crap. |
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| Some of us did the same thing on Paper so that we knew what we were building prior to spending that inf. All the mids guys did was take that paper and calculator off our tables/desks and put it in program form. |
That's like a materials engineer who did work on concrete claiming most of the credit for building a bridge.
While yes, most of the math was already out there, actually formatting it in a way people can use and doing the underlying programming constitutes a greater actual amount of "work" than just straining one's skull.
Or as an author once said. "I laugh at the people who come to me and say "I have this great idea! You write about it and we'll be partners!"
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
that's not 15% chart-boi.
and that 15% is a quote from ex-libris.
gawd, why are people so dumb in this game?
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Yes, from years ago. If you think it's 15% now, you're on drugs.|
Originally Posted by recalx
that's not 15% chart-boi.
and that 15% is a quote from ex-libris. |
Also, I said "illustration" instead of "data". Note there are no real numbers on that chart anyplace.
Quote:
| gawd, why are people so dumb in this game? |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
ever heard of proportions? where did you go to school? Texas or something?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Yes, from years ago. If you think it's 15% now, you're on drugs.
Also, I said "illustration" instead of "data". Note there are no real numbers on that chart anyplace. It's their insistence that dead systems like PVP are actually important to this game when, clearly, they aren't. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by recalx
ever heard of proportions? where did you go to school? Texas or something?
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LOL. U mad?
I repeat. "Illustration", not "data".
It is not, and never was meant to be an accurate representation of actual proportion of PVP population to total population. It was merely meant to show what I was originally talking about, that the PVE population as a whole, vastly overshadows the PVP population.
If you wanted a statistically accurate chart with real numbers, you need to go to the devs for that data. My picture was meant to make a point, not convey actual numbers.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
kid shut up.
i'm always angry, stop stating the obvious.
as for that being an "illustration", maybe you should take some drawing lessons from battlewraith.
until then, here's a chair:
\._
sit down.
Quote:
Telling someone on an internet forum to shut up.|
Originally Posted by recalx
kid shut up.
i'm always angry, stop stating the obvious. |
See dictionary for "Futile".
Quote:
| as for that being an "illustration", maybe you should take some drawing lessons from battlewraith. |
Thing is, you're NOT too dim to realize it. You're just trying to wave your hands and distract people away from an inconvenient point that you don't want to face up to.
Toughski ****ski.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
@Hyperstrike
i didnt make this thread to start a argument, like i said before their isnt that much pvp going on because no one likes what they did to it, i dont know a single MMO out their that does not have pvp, if the devs. put it in their they HAVE to make it good and balanced, even if only 2 people are using it, i know the devs. arnt completly ignoring the pvp community either, in previous panel conversations with the devs. they did infact say they would work on pvp in the future, when? we dont know and we are getting impatient, so dont try and basicly tell us that no one pvps or that the devs. will never work on this, we pvpers want to enjoy the game the same as anyone else does, we just dont want to constantly do trials and strike forces over and over again
every game out there nowadays has some sort of pvp system, like call of duty or dcuo, so their are infact ALOT of people who would love to go head to head against another player for the fun of it, but most of those people have went on to other games were their pvp system is fixed and balanced, or at least have devs. who will listen to them and not just pick a curtain faction of people.
so i just found out the other day that the stats you see on the Mids' Hero & Villain Designer are different from the actual stats in the game when it comes to PVP, im wondering what that is all about? i made a pvp toon which looks promising on mids, yet now that i see its different in the game i feel like this pvp toon i made is built on a lie, that it isnt as good as it can be.
on mids with pvp turned on, it would say my toons S/L resistance is at 75% but when im actually in the game and click on my stats while in a pvp zone, it says its at 60%, almost as if the devs. nerfed it, which if they did how long ago was it? and will mids ever fix it so it gives the right stats?