Please Buff Trick Arrows


Catwhoorg

 

Posted

Trickshooter has done a great job of showing that Trick Arrow could use some improvements in his thread here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=279734

I feel like it deserves some discussion here.

Trick Arrow does not have any buffs. I'm more than ok with this fact, but I don't feel like Trick Arrow was correctly balanced with the comparable powersets in the Defender Primaries etc. Trick Arrow is not even the best Defender Primary at Debuffing. Trick Arrow often has to use two powers to get as much debuff as other powersets get from just one power. And even here some of the powers have very small areas of effect (I'm looking at you Acid Arrow). Also as we have started to look at end game content and mechanics, Debuffs are just less effective than Buffs at helping to get through content quickly and safely. Thus, a set without Buffs really needs to very good at Debuffing in order to carry its weight.

Trick Arrow does have a lot of control. The problem is they don't work very well, especially if you aren't a controller. There are good ones, EMP Arrow and Oil Slick Arrow, but they have very long recharges that are very hard to get up every spawn. The single targets are weak, especially if you aren't a controller. Controllers get slightly stronger control powers and can also stack their effects with their primary control powers. All that makes Trick Arrow an excellent controller secondary, but the controls really just don't cut it for the other Archetypes.

Worst of all, Trick Arrow has a very hard time mitigating the Alpha Strike when the spawns use their best powers initially in combat. Most sets have some ability to make these less effective, but Flash Arrow alone just doesn't do enough to help surviablilty.

REMEDIES/SUGGESTIONS

  • Disruption Arrow -- Make this Disruption Arrow create a pet which can be attacked. Have the pet emit a sonic attack that does very low damage, but has a high taunt and - To Hit (as well as keeping its significant -resistances). Disruption Arrow would serve as an debuffing Force Field Generator. This would eat the Alpha Strike. Allow the - Restance Debuff to last for 15 seconds or so after the pet dies. Increase the number of targets this arrow can affect. The endurance cost of this power was already obscenely high with these additions it would make the endurance cost make more sense.

  • Glue Arrow -- Make Glue Arrow able to target a location instead of a creature. Have the Area of Effect grant a chance to Immobilize. This would allow Archers to have a greater ability to keep his opponents at range. This would also allow for some limited stacking with Entangling Arrow. Thematically, that would be important to Archers and they would try to go a long way to keep opponents at distance.

  • Ice Arrow -- Make Ice Arrow have an additional strong - Regeneration effect and possibly even more - resistance debuffing. Granting some worthwhile debuff to this hold would give additional reason for non-controllers to make use of this power. Cold would make things grow slower and at high levels would make things brittle, so thematically this could make good sense. This is nice because it only affects a single target.

  • Acid Arrow -- Increase the size of the Area of Effect or increase the potency of the small amount of mobs affected.

  • Alternate Animations -- Possibly have alternate animations that use Assault Rifle and Dual Pistols. This would allow for more customization, but also would allow for no redraw between sets. This wouldn't have to be done at the same time as the numbers and powers were rebalanced. I just thought it might be an interesting idea.


I'm not married to any of these changes. I like the idea of most of Trickshooter's changes as well. I would just put this out there as a thread to collect different ideas and suggestions and to possibly refine suggestions to make them as good as possible.


 

Posted

I guess no one plays Trick Arrow or people believe it to be balanced. I really do think that the lack of buffs should really require Trick Arrow to be one of the better de-buffing sets in order for Defenders and Corrupters to pull their weight on teams.

Another issue that Trick Arrow has is that it not only requires multiple powers to do what other powers do in a single application, many of it's powers require multiple applications to keep the de-buffs at an adequate level and duration. Meaning that you have to stop attacking in order to reapply your de-buff which can be further aggrovated by redraw.

The control powers seem too weak to really keep you alive especially versus more difficult content, especially for non-controllers.

I have seen a lot of good options for improvements to Trick Arrow. I really like the idea of disruption arrow creating a taunting pet that can be destroyed, but can last long enough to apply a de-buff and distract spawns alpha strike. The power looks like it could actually work this way already. It's not my original idea, but I think it's a good one, that I would like to champion.

But that one change alone isn't enough. I would like to know what others think.


 

Posted

I play Trick Arrows, and I think it could stand to be better. But it's been brought up ad nauseum to little effect.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Trick shooter says that the Devs may give it some attention in the next 6 months to year. They had pm'd him that love was on the way, just not super quick.


 

Posted

Giving Flash Arrow a much higher -to hit effect would make a world of difference in making it a major debuff effect.


_________
@Inquisitor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid View Post
Giving Flash Arrow a much higher -to hit effect would make a world of difference in making it a major debuff effect.
The trade off would likely be that it would become resistible (currently its unresistable)

Right now TA is the best -tohit debuff set against AVs.

Thats a trade off I'm not sure I would like.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
The trade off would likely be that it would become resistible (currently its unresistable)

Right now TA is the best -tohit debuff set against AVs.

Thats a trade off I'm not sure I would like.
I've seen it suggested that Flash Arrow keep its current debuff and get an additional big resistible -to hit with a shorter duration. So that enemies would be blinded for a few seconds, but disoriented for much longer.


 

Posted

I want to say that Glue Arrow was originally the way you suggest, and that it was made the way it is (target an enemy) because there were too many powers requiring placement reticules and it was (a) annoying people, (b) really slowing the set down, or (c) both, so they changed it either in beta or just after release.

I *might* be remembering it wrong though.


Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbird View Post
I want to say that Glue Arrow was originally the way you suggest, and that it was made the way it is (target an enemy) because there were too many powers requiring placement reticules and it was (a) annoying people, (b) really slowing the set down, or (c) both, so they changed it either in beta or just after release.

I *might* be remembering it wrong though.
Sounds the way I remember. Indeed, I hate location-targeted powers and would rather see the ones still in the set get changed to enemy-targeted AoEs rather than location-targeted AoEs. Were Glue Arrow changed to a click-n-stick power it would really put a damper on my enjoyment of the set. OSA is irritating enough, and I skip Disruption Arrow mainly for that reason. Optimally, such powers could be used either way - by targeting an enemy or choosing a placement. Until that's the case, my preference will always be for enemy-targeted AoEs.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

See we are learning. I always thought it would be nice to pre-debuff before the fight with Flash Arrow then a Glue Arrow patch that would bunch them up better as they come toward me. But I can see if you are reapplying that a non mob targeted arrow would slow down chains.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
I personally think the Devs just harbor a secret hatred for Ollie Star.
Should I know who Ollie Star is? I feel like I'm going to feel dumb...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
Should I know who Ollie Star is? I feel like I'm going to feel dumb...
Perhaps they meant Ollie Queen, the Green Arrow.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
Perhaps they meant Ollie Queen, the Green Arrow.
I thought I had good comic book knowledge for someone my age and couldn't get the reference.

Oliver Queen -- aka the Green Arrow, lives in Star City right?