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Yes, it will. Any hold should stack, so basically their durations will overlap to allow u to hold a boss for the layered duration of the two mag 3 holds, even before factoring in Hold procs which will also stack. Yes they should both be able to be enhanced.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Does Dark's "Abyssal Gaze" hold stack with Ice's "Freezing Touch"? And if so, up to what can it hold. And can it be enhanced? (I/Os, etc., even chance to hold Proc in other powers....)
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You can stack and enhance (only duration, not mag) any hold, all of the blaster ones are mag 3 afaik. So two holds are mag 6, enough to hold a boss (mesmerize from mind control sleeps bosses and it's a mag 3.5 sleep, seismic smash from stone melee is a mag 4 hold so it holds bosses by itself).
Dunno how much you need to hold an EB.
On an ice/ice blaster you can get freeze ray, bitter freeze ray and frezing touch and they stack to a mag 9 hold (or 12 if you get an epic hold too). The mags from any hold can only be enhanced individually if the lockdown proc hits.
Typically EB's have boss level mez protection. There are a few exceptions but that's a decent thumb rule.
I don't know offhand of any mez powers in the game that don't stack, and I think nearly all holds are MAG 3 (LT level hold) so a second power, or a second hit from the same power before the duration runs out will hold a Boss.
There's a handful of holds that are MAG 4 and 1 shot hold a Boss, Stone Melee's Seismic Smash and Super Strength's Knock out Blow come to mind there... and of course Controllers have a chance for a critical hold that boosts their hold to MAG 4.
Bottom line is that any character with two different hold powers can indeed hold a Boss with a one-two attack. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that on many squishy characters.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Technically, I believe Bosses need mag 4 to hold and EBs need mag 6, but since almost all holds are mag 3 it won't make a practical difference to a Blaster. But I don't think the mag 4 "critical" holds Controllers sometimes get will hold an EB. Also, EB versions of AVs / Heroes still get the purple triangles so those are just as hard to hold as a true AV is. In fact I believe they are marginally harder since I think AVs do have only Boss level protection while the triangles are down while EB versions have a couple extra points.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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If you go to City of Data, you'll be able to look up the mechanics of those powers. Also, in-game, you can right click on a power for info, or, in chat surround the power names with brackets to create a hyperlink for the info box, e.g., [Freezing Touch].|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Does Dark's "Abyssal Gaze" hold stack with Ice's "Freezing Touch"? And if so, up to what can it hold. And can it be enhanced? (I/Os, etc., even chance to hold Proc in other powers....)
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Both of those powers have a Mag of 3. A boss has a Mag Protection from Holds at 3. In order to hold you have to *beat* the Protection, not tie it. And so, you'd need to stack both powers to hold the boss, or, if the duration of the hold is long enough, reapply the same hold to stack it.
The Hold Proc's magnitude of hold will also stack, so, you can get lucky and hold a boss with just one application of the power. The Hold Procs are Mag 2 for 8 seconds.
All Holds that we know of have their "Strength" defined as their Duration, and not as their Magnitude. So, any Enhancement to the "Strength of the Hold" will enhance the duration of the Hold, and not its Magnitude.
However, Magnitude is scaled by relative level. A Boss that is a level lower than you will have just slightly less than Mag 3 protection (I'm not sure of the exact number, but somewhere around 2.8 Mag). This means you can hold a lower level Boss with just one application of Freezing Touch, e.g. And it works the other way, too. You'll find that a Lieutenant, who has a Mag 2 Protection will, as they outlevel you, hit that magic number of Mag 3 in which one application of your hold will stop working on them.
Minions have a Protection of 1. Lts are 2. Bosses are 3. Elite Bosses are 6. AVs are 3 when their special AV Resistance is down (1/3 of the time) and 50 when that "Pink Triangles of Doom" are up.
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KO Blow is mag 3.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
There's a handful of holds that are MAG 4 and 1 shot hold a Boss, Stone Melee's Seismic Smash and Super Strength's Knock out Blow come to mind there... and of course Controllers have a chance for a critical hold that boosts their hold to MAG 4.
Bottom line is that any character with two different hold powers can indeed hold a Boss with a one-two attack. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that on many squishy characters. |
I think Seismic Smash is the only mag 4 hold, at least I can't remember any other except special cases (domination, time's hold when used with the tier 1, controller critical). The only mag 4 hard control I can remember is old Total Focus (Mesmerize sleeps bosses and is mag 3.5 but not a hard control), I may be wrong tho. Ok Noxious Gas for MMs has a 1-trillion mag hold for 4 seconds but the power takes almost as long as a nuke to recharge.
Edit: found another mag 4 control, Fortunata Scramble Thoughts - the crappy stun because it has a 3 seconds cast time (I knew Fortunatas had something, I thought their Dominate was mag 4, but according to Mid's it's 3).
I soul stormed Ghost widow successfully once after about two tries. It was beautiful.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Fortunata Scramble Thoughts is mag 4, although that's a stun, not a hold. Soul Transfer is a mag 30 (!!!!) AoE stun, but of course you have to die to use it. Rise of the Phoenix is a mag 4 stun, again with the requirement to die first. Ion, Pyronic, and Cryonic Judgements have mag 4 holds or stuns in the Radial tree. There might be some others. Most have very long recharges, though.
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This ...|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
If you go to City of Data, you'll be able to look up the mechanics of those powers. Also, in-game, you can right click on a power for info, or, in chat surround the power names with brackets to create a hyperlink for the info box, e.g., [Freezing Touch].
Both of those powers have a Mag of 3. A boss has a Mag Protection from Holds at 3. In order to hold you have to *beat* the Protection, not tie it. And so, you'd need to stack both powers to hold the boss, or, if the duration of the hold is long enough, reapply the same hold to stack it. The Hold Proc's magnitude of hold will also stack, so, you can get lucky and hold a boss with just one application of the power. The Hold Procs are Mag 2 for 8 seconds. All Holds that we know of have their "Strength" defined as their Duration, and not as their Magnitude. So, any Enhancement to the "Strength of the Hold" will enhance the duration of the Hold, and not its Magnitude. However, Magnitude is scaled by relative level. A Boss that is a level lower than you will have just slightly less than Mag 3 protection (I'm not sure of the exact number, but somewhere around 2.8 Mag). This means you can hold a lower level Boss with just one application of Freezing Touch, e.g. And it works the other way, too. You'll find that a Lieutenant, who has a Mag 2 Protection will, as they outlevel you, hit that magic number of Mag 3 in which one application of your hold will stop working on them. Minions have a Protection of 1. Lts are 2. Bosses are 3. Elite Bosses are 6. AVs are 3 when their special AV Resistance is down (1/3 of the time) and 50 when that "Pink Triangles of Doom" are up. |
And note the AV's will have 50 PLUS their normal protection, so effectively it'll be 53 when the "PToD" are "up". http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Triangles. Variance for relative level is, I believe, do to Purple Patch modifiers http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch
Edit: and the one exception to all this is Intangibility if I'm not mistaken. Enhancing, for example, Sonic Cage increases the magnitude of the Intangibility and not the duration.
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If I'm not mistaken (since Mid's won't let me put intangibility SOs/IOs in Sonic Cage or the FF one, only in the AoE intangible powers like Black Hole or Dimension Shift), only Endoplasms (acc/mez HOs) can do that. People use these HOs in cages to cage AVs and towers in the STF for example.|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
Edit: and the one exception to all this is Intangibility if I'm not mistaken. Enhancing, for example, Sonic Cage increases the magnitude of the Intangibility and not the duration.
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With 6 acc/mez lvl 50 HOs (I know, too much) sonic cage on a def goes from 5.96 mag to 12.5. With 3, 11.6.
(At least in mid's the HO trick to increase intangibility mag doesn't work for the AoE ones from dark and gravity)
For KB, KD, and KU, the 'strength' is defined as Magnitude, so, enhancements affect the Magnitude (as well as the level-scaling Purple Patch). This can change KD into KB and vice versa.
And for most, if not all, Intangibility powers, the 'strength' is also defined as Magnitude.
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Does Dark's "Abyssal Gaze" hold stack with Ice's "Freezing Touch"? And if so, up to what can it hold. And can it be enhanced? (I/Os, etc., even chance to hold Proc in other powers....)