Player Summit Ustream Highlights: Costume Design Panel
By
Agonist_NA,
Posted on: 2011-11-19 15:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Flagrant_Fowl
Any comment on the file named Statesman_Dead_Teaser.psd that was visible on David's computer? O.o
I'm sure it has nothing to do with what came to mind. O.O |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's one of the SSA teasers - there was one for Manticore and BAB too.
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Notice how all three of them have something that represents them in this?
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I see, so more of a communication issue... transmitting 6 codes (however long) instead of 3 for arms/shoulders/gloves times however many people are within view of you. I guess I can understand that. I don't like it but I can understand it.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Those parts aren't graphics intensive - they're still just single costume parts with built-in-asymmetry - the graphics intensive part is giving player models all the extra textures to render that would come from having spearate left and right costume parts.
For example, right now the game only has to render one texture for your legs, because you can only have one type of leg part - but by letting players have separate left and right leg parts, the game then has to render twice as many textures for the legs. |
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What are these limitations ?|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
FYI, asymmetry is still very much on the table. Fire and Ice will have it, and there's more to come. There are limitations about where it can go, but that certainly doesn't rule it out.
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Alot of the old textures can be converted to make use of an asymmetrical texture, it's just the texture map needs to be changed to accommodate it. The Vahz Abominations have asymmetrical textures, and that is one of the earliest enemies in the game, so using that texture map shouldn't be too hard ...
**EDIT**: I dunno if texture map is the right term ... its the 3D model's vertexes/polygons placed on a flat surface which the texture artist paints in to make the actual texture ...
eg:
CHAMPION!
Even asymmetrical textures could incur a penalty. If you look at a lot of the textures, you can see that they are really a mirror image left to right. Not sure how they are stored, but if the current system stores half the texture and just duplicates it over to the other side, making it even accept non-symmetrical textures would be a big job, as well as doubling that part of the costume size.
My demon MM has always in my head had an asymmetrical texture costume - can't get there yet in the costume creator!
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Asymmetry is high on my mind, and it's always something I like to include in the earliest sketches for any concept. It makes more sense for some themes than others, but you can definitely expect more asymm. stuff. |
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
The limitations are understandable. To be honest, I'd be happy just to see something that tells us you haven't completely ignored the concept. Perhaps some non-robot options for the robot arms categories in the editor? I would certainly love to see a mutated version. I'm not sure how much work that'd be... but hell, atleast the UI is set up for it.
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At this very panel, we toyed with the idea of a mutated arm. That'd certainly be cool! And our hope with Fire and Ice is to have Lava/Ice arms (as seen in the concept). Just imagine the possibilities when combined with auras. Can't wait.
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
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If it's in the system already (i.e. shoulder pads, face details, arms, etc.), then we can do more. And while breaking emotes is a concern, it's certainly not a deal breaker. We can typically work around that.
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Originally Posted by PowerStream
That's good to hear. I've never understood why asymmetry was so hard though.
We have shoulder pads and a couple jackets that are not symmetrical. Those are some of things I'd like to see. ... And as for the excuse that asymmetry breaks emotes... |
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
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To be clear, what you are saying (not in the above post necessarily but in this overall revelation about the resource constraints for asymmetry in general) is simple asymmetric skins are out of the question? -- Like a full body version of the 50/50 face mask, allowing us to simply color one half the body color X and the other color Y?
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Asymmetry is high on my mind, and it's always something I like to include in the earliest sketches for any concept. It makes more sense for some themes than others, but you can definitely expect more asymm. stuff.
At this very panel, we toyed with the idea of a mutated arm. That'd certainly be cool! And our hope with Fire and Ice is to have Lava/Ice arms (as seen in the concept). Just imagine the possibilities when combined with auras. Can't wait. |
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I asked the Character Artists about this, and asymmetry would be difficult to do on the body, particularly if it involves skin. We'll more like concentrate on asymmetry elsewhere (arms, shoulder pads, head details, etc.)
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Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
To be clear, what you are saying (not in the above post necessarily but in this overall revelation about the resource constraints for asymmetry in general) is simple asymmetric skins are out of the question? -- Like a full body version of the 50/50 face mask, allowing us to simply color one half the body color X and the other color Y?
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David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
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Thanks a lot for asking and reporting, N.S.!|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I asked the Character Artists about this, and asymmetry would be difficult to do on the body, particularly if it involves skin. We'll more like concentrate on asymmetry elsewhere (arms, shoulder pads, head details, etc.)
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It's very easy for people to forget that such things don't fall in your domain.
It's a bit disappointing, but it's good to know why there aren't asymetrical body patterns. I wouldn't naturally think of that as being an extra load on the resources, but that's the way things work and it makes sense to me now.
Also, yeah... non-robot robotic arm options would also be a great thing!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I'm a sad panda
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I asked the Character Artists about this, and asymmetry would be difficult to do on the body, particularly if it involves skin. We'll more like concentrate on asymmetry elsewhere (arms, shoulder pads, head details, etc.)
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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So my wish for "monster arms" under Robotic Arms is about to come true, then? Thank you! |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
At this very panel, we toyed with the idea of a mutated arm. That'd certainly be cool! And our hope with Fire and Ice is to have Lava/Ice arms (as seen in the concept). Just imagine the possibilities when combined with auras. Can't wait.
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Now how about those titanic, muscular human arms for Robotic Arms to make our ladies a tad more buff when the situation calls for it?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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We have shoulder pads and a couple jackets that are not symmetrical. Those are some of things I'd like to see. Also more arm choices for the robotic arm option. Legs like Noble Savage's would just be a giant bonus! Check out Zynrgy's thread in the Art forums for more examples of cool symmetry. We know you look in there devs because some of his designs have been put in game.
And as for the excuse that asymmetry breaks emotes... Try doing some emotes with a shield toon. I seem to be able to live without certain emotes with those toons. If I lose emotes for the sake of being pretty/awesome looking, then so be it.
1) Asymmetric costume parts. There's nothing preventing this other than increased GPU load: it's easier for a GPU to use a shape and pattern on one side of the body and use it again mirrored on the other side of the body, than it is to use two different shapes or patterns. With asymmetric parts, the CoH client needs to send twice as much data to the GPU, requiring twice as much video memory. On low-end cards, this forces the card to use slower main memory to store some of the data, reducing framerate.
2) Asymmetric options. If you're using the Biker Jacket sleeve on one arm, and medieval armor plate on the other, the City of Heroes server needs to store twice as much costume data, and send twice as much data out every time you come within view of another player or do a costume change. CoH is already borderline on low-end connections, and this will just make it worse.
3) Different body parts are different sizes. In addition to the higher GPU load and network load, this breaks every emote in which one body part interacts with another -- in short, just about all of them, including the basic "standing around idle" postures.