Considering a Controller


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I have never played a Controller before. I have played a few perma Doms, for brief periods, before stripping the character for other projects. Mostly Grav Energy. I leveled just about every Dom build to early 20s once redside, thru missions, never got the whole crew to 50.

My wife just joined the cities, and is played an Energy/Energy Blaster. I made a Dark Melee/Invulnerability Scrapper to team with her, but am starting to rethink the decision.

Controllers look nice. For a Dom, they dont start cooking until Perma, and that is a ways away since my wife is fond of old school leveling in every game system.

Can someone give me a simple explanation of the Controller inherent Containment? I looked at Wiki and it was high on adjectives and short on math.

If I choose to try a controller experiment, what would be a very good choice for teaming with a Energy/Energy Blaster. Mostly door missions/tip missions/safeguards/a few story arcs.

Thanks.


 

Posted

Short answer on Containment: Anything that is already controlled in some fashion (held, immob, sleep, fear, stun) takes double damage from further Controller powers.

So, if you have an attack that does 50 damage, but your target is held, the power will do 100 damage total to it.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Containment does two things:

Whenever you use a control power from your primary in addition to the normal mez effect it has a 20% chance of applying a mag 1 mez with a duration of two-thirds the nominal mez duration. The net effect is that when you use a mez it has a 20% chance to affect a boss but only for two-thirds the time (although you can always follow up with a second application to keep him mezzed through stacking). It's important to note that mez powers in your secondary (such as Thunderclap or Ice Arrow) do not get this benefit.

The second benefit from containment is increased damage. Whenever you attack a foe who is mezzed (specifically immobilized, held or stunned) you deal double damage. This works like critical hits or Scourge in that the base damage of the power is doubled so all damage buffs apply to the bonus damage. This effect should apply to all powers (Primary, Secondary and Pool) except for the pet powers although in practice there are a handful of pseudo-pet powers which also do not benefit.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
If I choose to try a controller experiment, what would be a very good choice for teaming with a Energy/Energy Blaster. Mostly door missions/tip missions/safeguards/a few story arcs.
The big question here is do you want to prevent her from dealing knockback or not? As a Controller you will generally want to use your AoE immobilize power to setup containment (you don't have to but generally want to). Earth, Fire, Ice and Plant will all apply knockback immunity to enemies when you use their immobilize powers so if your wife likes tossing foes around those would be a bad choice for a primary.

In terms of secondary it depends on what you want. Empathy is one option simply because a Blaster with Fortitude and Adrenalin Boost is a killing machine. Other than that Kin, Radiation and Cold are all solid choices.


 

Posted

FYI, fear does not set up containment.


@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Short answer on Containment: Anything that is already controlled in some fashion (held, immob, sleep, fear, stun) takes double damage from further Controller powers.

So, if you have an attack that does 50 damage, but your target is held, the power will do 100 damage total to it.
Time out. Fear now causes containment? Spooky just got even better...

MT


Global: @Master Templar on Freedom.
"This here's my demon face. You see I'm Satan's onion...s-scallion.. 'Minion?' no, not that."

 

Posted

I have always considered the difference between Controllers and Dominators as the difference between a python and a cobra.

Dominators are a bit more offense oriented. Once they get a target held, they can rip it up with attacks. Controllers are more of a slow suffocation style of death.

Almost any Controller combo will work well with an energy blaster but I'm fond of two particular pairs.

1. Mind/Empathy. -- Mind has a lockdown for all occasions and can set up mobs for some of the nastier AoE effects like rain of fire. Empathy adds the buffing bonuses and (oh, yeah) you can heal as well.

2. Illusion/ Radiation. -- This is a classic combo. The radiation debuffs can take almost any target out of the fight. Illusion starts off a little slow, but becomes a killing machine once you start getting the pets.

There really isn't a bad controller combo. But, they can be a bit tricky to get used to.


Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
The second benefit from containment is increased damage. Whenever you attack a foe who is mezzed (specifically immobilized, held or stunned) you deal double damage.
The AoE Disorients in the Controller primaries are considered stuns for this?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
The AoE Disorients in the Controller primaries are considered stuns for this?
Yes, Disorient = Stun.

And sorry for the Fear gaff.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
The big question here is do you want to prevent her from dealing knockback or not? As a Controller you will generally want to use your AoE immobilize power to setup containment (you don't have to but generally want to). Earth, Fire, Ice and Plant will all apply knockback immunity to enemies when you use their immobilize powers so if your wife likes tossing foes around those would be a bad choice for a primary.

In terms of secondary it depends on what you want. Empathy is one option simply because a Blaster with Fortitude and Adrenalin Boost is a killing machine. Other than that Kin, Radiation and Cold are all solid choices.
Wont any Controller Immobilize and Hold stop knockback? like Grav or Psi?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
Wont any Controller Immobilize and Hold stop knockback? like Grav or Psi?
Immobilize will most of the time. Dominate and Mez? Nope. I've sent many sleeping foes flying.


Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
Wont any Controller Immobilize and Hold stop knockback? like Grav or Psi?
Nope. Grav and Elec control Immobs don't have a -Kb effect on them. For Gravity, that lies in the Holds. not sure if Elec has any of them.

Edit:

So basically, it falls like this;

Fire, Ice, Earth, Plant: Immobs contain -KB, Holds do not
Gravity: Immobs do NOT contain -KB, Holds do.
Elec*, Mind, Illusion: No -KB effects in the powerset.


*I think...don't have Mid's on this computer to check.

Further edit: added illusion to the list. Come on brain, work with me here!


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Elec*: No -KB effects in the powerset.

*I think...don't have Mid's on this computer to check.
I just double checked on City of Data. Electric Fence (the single target immobilize) has kb protection but Chain Fences (the AoE immobilize) does not.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
I have never played a Controller before. I have played a few perma Doms, for brief periods, before stripping the character for other projects. Mostly Grav Energy. I leveled just about every Dom build to early 20s once redside, thru missions, never got the whole crew to 50.

My wife just joined the cities, and is played an Energy/Energy Blaster. I made a Dark Melee/Invulnerability Scrapper to team with her, but am starting to rethink the decision.

Controllers look nice. For a Dom, they dont start cooking until Perma, and that is a ways away since my wife is fond of old school leveling in every game system.

Can someone give me a simple explanation of the Controller inherent Containment? I looked at Wiki and it was high on adjectives and short on math.

If I choose to try a controller experiment, what would be a very good choice for teaming with a Energy/Energy Blaster. Mostly door missions/tip missions/safeguards/a few story arcs.

Thanks.
My first suggestion, as usual, is to try an Illusion/Radiation Controller. It is the most flexible, all purpose controller you can get. Your wife's character has a lot of knockback, and that knockback won't be much of a problem for an Ill/Rad. Your attacks are single-target focused. Your controls don't rely much upon tightly grouping as with other controllers. You get most of your really good powers early, with the late powers being nice but not essential additions. An Ill/Rad is easy to play fairly well, but challenging to play really well. You can easily take out problem foes before the fight begins. You can heal, buff and debuff. You can tank, control, defend and blast.

See my Ill/Rad guide for the details . . . and lots of strategy tips as well as lots of basic info on controllers.

CONTAINMENT is simple . . . any attack that a controller directly makes upon a foe who is held, slept, stunned or immobilized gets double damage. Damage caused by pets and pseudo-pets do not get the double damage from Containment. It does not matter who caused the hold, sleep, stun or immobilize -- whether it was you or anyone else. The other kinds of control -- fear, confusion, intangibility, slow and knocks -- do NOT set the double damage from Containment.

There are a few wrinkles here and there . . . mostly based upon a misunderstanding of how things work. For example, Spectral Wounds (from Illusion) gets containment on the base damage without the Illusory damage. It looks like it is getting short-changed, but the damage number is base on the "real" damage. Several other powers appear to be direct attacks but are actually pseudo-pets, like the damage in Earth's Volcanic Gasses or Radiation's Fallout.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
Wont any Controller Immobilize and Hold stop knockback? like Grav or Psi?
The AoE Immob for Earth, Fire, Plant and Ice all have 12 seconds of -knockback. After 12 seconds, the foes cannot move but they can be knocked back or knocked down. The single target Immob for Earth, Fire, Plant, Ice and Electric all have -Knockback for 15 seconds. Gravity's and Earth's Holds have -knockback.

One of the appealing aspects of Gravity and Electric are that the AoE Immobs do NOT do -knockback. My Gravity/Storm was able to use Freezing Rain+Crushing Field as an effective AoE control power with knockdown.

The duration of the -Knockback cannot be enhanced. To continue it, you must re-cast the power.

Personally, I think knockback is part of the appeal of an Energy Blaster. Knockback is fun and very super-heroy. It is also a kind of short-term control that can be very effective. My Energy/Energy Blaster relies upon Knockback as a form of protection, to keep foes at range. So I would not want a controller with -Knockback.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
Personally, I think knockback is part of the appeal of an Energy Blaster. Knockback is fun and very super-heroy. It is also a kind of short-term control that can be very effective. My Energy/Energy Blaster relies upon Knockback as a form of protection, to keep foes at range. So I would not want a controller with -Knockback.
Hrm. Good point. I keep trying to figure out how to make the team rack up the body count. But the last time I did that didn't work cause my Scrapper can wipe a mob faster than a new blaster can target. Killing KB may also kill the fun.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
Hrm. Good point. I keep trying to figure out how to make the team rack up the body count. But the last time I did that didn't work cause my Scrapper can wipe a mob faster than a new blaster can target. Killing KB may also kill the fun.
Too many people, especially people on these forums, focus on min/max builds and maximizing DPS, etc. That may be fun at times, but the game can also be fun in other ways. One of my favorite parts of this game is developing strategy to get past what some people consider to be a weakness in a build. Some people around here hate knockback with a passion. So one of the fun parts of learning how to play an Energy/Energy blaster is trying to make the knockback into an asset instead of a problem.

Things like floating overhead so the knockback becomes knockdown (using Fly and Hover). Things like focusing on one foe at a time where the knockback isn't a problem since the foe is dead. Things like knocking foes into corners or against walls, or moving so the knockback sends foes back into the group.

All of that is fine for her, but being a new player, expect it to take some time. That's another reason why an Ill/Rad might be a great companion -- the ToHit Debuff, the distraction of Phantom Army or the use of Deceive will give her a chance to learn strategy.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

I say.. embrace the chaos. Make a new defender a Forcefields/Energy. Buff and blast away. Just have fun and go all out on the knockback.


 

Posted

Thank you all so much for the mini education on controllers and all the advice/input. Last night I pulled off thescrapper I had been running. I first grabbed a 16th Ice Dom Ihad available. (Wife is playing a 21 Energy Blaster) She liked it, commented on the overlapping blaster style powers. She liked the control/lockdowns. But it was not a perfect fit. Next mish i switched out for a 20th tank that had been sitting for 2 years. She LOVED it. Slower killing, but she absolutely loved just letting the tank herd and then blasting the fish in a barrel. So, old old school tactics for this duo. Pulling, herding, and Blasting. I am right now leveling up a Tank she designed for the duo. (she spent a half hour making sure I got the face right...)

again thanks to all.


 

Posted

I see that you have decied to go with a tank, but I want to throw in my two cents in anyway.
A electric/time controller. It has a low level heal to keep you alive when starting out, and by the time you get to around 22, unless you are in a big group, it is controlling everything, so all your wife would have to do is shoot fish in a barrel all day.


Global is @honcho
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Posted

An Electric/Time can probably tank pretty well once you get that sleep patch and some slots into the end drain aura. Couple that with the -tohit aura you get in Time, you should have it easy.

I never thought sleep as a control would be so crippling until I started experiencing it from that new Super Stunner Freak!


Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

Posted

You guys are probably right about the Controller being a good way to go.... Part of the problem is I am definitely not good at running a Controller no doubt. Whereas I have Tanked on Brutes for years, and ran a soft cap Tank for a time. Sometimes people respond to how confident you are, not how good the situation is. I am very confident on a melee, especially a damage/agro sponge type. i am decidedly not so comfortable on crowd Control arch types.

I did start a Ice/Ice Dominator after this thread though. I feel Ice is the most naturally control heavy power set based on running an Ice/Ice Blaster to 40 back in the day. Plus with it starting to snow on me (should last about 6 months) I just had to lol. The reason I chose Dominator is not a slight on Controllers. I have a full Perma Dom I/O enhancer trove sitting in my base from when I stripped my last try at a Grav/Nrg Dom. Hopefully I will enjoy it more this time. My time Doming was colored by my inexperience and the fact that there ain't no love for Grav/Nrg on teams lol. I have been playing a lot more squishies since then, and hopefully Ice/Ice will get more love.


 

Posted

Back in the day, I learned the principles of tanking from playing my first Controller.

Quote:
Sometimes people respond to how confident you are, not how good the situation is. I am very confident on a melee,
There are several Controllers that are best played in melee, essentially any who has an aura toggle. In terms of primaries, such as Ice's Arctic Air (confuse), Fire's Hot Feet (damage), or Electric's Conductive Aura (end drain). In terms of secondaries, such as Rad's Choking Cloud (hold), Storm's Steamy Mist (-dam, resists), Time's Time's Juncture (-tohit, -dam), and Force Field and Sonic's big bubbles. Of course, there's also Kinetic's Fulcrum Shift. If you have a disabling drop patch, you can use them first to negate the alpha strike before jumping in, so you don't even have to wait for a Tank (if any) to go in first.

Add in Air Superiority and you can keep a boss out of play until your other effects neuter him.


Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
You guys are probably right about the Controller being a good way to go.... Part of the problem is I am definitely not good at running a Controller no doubt. Whereas I have Tanked on Brutes for years, and ran a soft cap Tank for a time. Sometimes people respond to how confident you are, not how good the situation is. I am very confident on a melee, especially a damage/agro sponge type. i am decidedly not so comfortable on crowd Control arch types.

I did start a Ice/Ice Dominator after this thread though. I feel Ice is the most naturally control heavy power set based on running an Ice/Ice Blaster to 40 back in the day. Plus with it starting to snow on me (should last about 6 months) I just had to lol. The reason I chose Dominator is not a slight on Controllers. I have a full Perma Dom I/O enhancer trove sitting in my base from when I stripped my last try at a Grav/Nrg Dom. Hopefully I will enjoy it more this time. My time Doming was colored by my inexperience and the fact that there ain't no love for Grav/Nrg on teams lol. I have been playing a lot more squishies since then, and hopefully Ice/Ice will get more love.
I have an Ice/Storm I run fairly regularly. I'd say it would play almost the same as Ice/Cold Domination. Though it has more location control compared to cold domination's buff awesomeness. The damage output will not be entirely impressive, but you will have no problem creating lovely little kill boxes for your blaster and slowing the damage output of the more dangerous mobs your blaster will attract ire from.


~Virtue~
Flynx 50 Mind/Emp/Mind
Inflamer 50 Fire/Kin/Fire
Frost Custodian 44 Ice/Storm
@Flynx