If Blaster Psi Blast Should Had 100ft Range...
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2011-11-07 22:46 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I am sorry. I am still not buying that Psi Set is that inferior on Blaster. The only down side is having one less AoE but they add one cone to /mental. Not that I agree with this but there are options to get more aoe (/fiery has two as well) if you feel the need to. Sonic Blast also only has one aoe. My very first hero is 50 Sonic/Ice. And I've played several Stalkers that either don't have any aoe or has very limited aoe. The fact that Blasters have options to get more aoe is good.
You are giving 100ft range way too much credit in pve and I still don't think the set works "better" on Corr/Defender. If you ask any Corr user, they will gladly take Aim. It's really the secondary that makes the difference, not primary set.
How's Psi Set sucks for soloing? You get one TK Blast (80' instead of typical 40') that has a high chance to knock back. You get will dominator to hit and sleep and then you get a mag 3 stun to start the battle if you feel the need and tornado has 50% knock up. There's tons of controls that Fiery Melee doesn't have.
About the only thing I can agree on is how Psionic Damage is very bi-polar. The mobs either don't have any resistance or they resist 35-45% of it and there is almost no middle ground. It sucks at high end when you fight robots, zombies and whatnot. That's the only complaint I have on Psi sets.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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^This omg this|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
It was because of PvP. It's as simple as that.
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So many things in this game got butchered and never fixed due to pvp. Its not ilke they could give a separate range just for pvp. I could see if pvp did well in this game. Part why people hate it so much was due to it not being divorced from pve from the start.
Also psi as a whole needs reworking. why is it that all npcs do considerably more damage with the psi powers. Psi in comics has always been a huge damage dealer but in Coh it just sucks *** for players. Thats why I know psi melee would be nerfed to hell right out of the box. I am not saying its gotta be like fire blast but it should be a lot closer to it than it is now
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I'm not asking you to BUY it I'm telling you to TRY it before you comment. I've played a FF/Psi defender to 50 pre-AE and pre-xp smoothing. The extra range does indeed make a nice difference (especially since it is base range and any range enhancements make it longer still).|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am sorry. I am still not buying that Psi Set is that inferior on Blaster. The only down side is having one less AoE but they add one cone to /mental. Not that I agree with this but there are options to get more aoe (/fiery has two as well) if you feel the need to. Sonic Blast also only has one aoe. My very first hero is 50 Sonic/Ice. And I've played several Stalkers that either don't have any aoe or has very limited aoe. The fact that Blasters have options to get more aoe is good.
You are giving 100ft range way too much credit in pve and I still don't think the set works "better" on Corr/Defender. If you ask any Corr user, they will gladly take Aim. It's really the secondary that makes the difference, not primary set. How's Psi Set sucks for soloing? You get one TK Blast (80' instead of typical 40') that has a high chance to knock back. You get will dominator to hit and sleep and then you get a mag 3 stun to start the battle if you feel the need and tornado has 50% knock up. There's tons of controls that Fiery Melee doesn't have. About the only thing I can agree on is how Psionic Damage is very bi-polar. The mobs either don't have any resistance or they resist 35-45% of it and there is almost no middle ground. It sucks at high end when you fight robots, zombies and whatnot. That's the only complaint I have on Psi sets. |
The secondary effect is a nice benefit if you can debuff the mobs (or buff yourself) so that you're lower damage modifier allows you long enough survival to actually see it work and make a difference. You aren't giving the extra range enough credit and the devs obviously disagree since they nerfed the range.
The defender and the Cor versions both have all the AoE that the blaster set "should" have had. That makes a big performance difference.
Telling me that Psi is fine if you pair it with "X" for "Y" reason is a complete non-sequitur and it means that what you are really telling me is that Psi is not good but you can make it ok by doing "Z".
Why would I ever play such a set when I can take ANY other primary and NOT have to pair it with "X" secondary to make it "not suck?"
I played a Psi/ blaster and deleted it. It took nearly 3 times longer to level and I earned the debt badges far faster than any other blaster I played (including my Elec/Nrg). It really is that bad.
If you feel that it doesn't need a buff then please by all means play it to your heart's content. You'll be 1 out of thousands.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I am working on Dark Blast Blaster and a Beamer (even worse aoe IMO) so I won't have time to work on a Psi Blast and quite frankly, my most favorite toon is Fortunata who I think is the best Psionic user.
Dark Blast also has the similar "projectile speed" and 80' range and Gloom takes about 2s to finish. The aoe knock back is extremely helpful for soloing. TT aoe is slow but it's mainly used for immb.
But right now, Dark Blast is my most favorite Blaster. :P I love Life Drain and even though Dark Blast is not considered a high-damage set, it is still high-damage in comparison to other ATs.
I don't need to try everything before I comment on it. The numbers don't lie. Psionic Blast on Blaster has several useful controls for soloing and looking at the attack chain, it is probably ranked #3 in terms of raw damage (behind Fire and maybe Sonic) but with extra safety for having 80' range on all attacks. It does less damage on a large team so you'll need to pick up another aoe. I know my Sonic Blaster picked up Electricity Epic cone attack.
Most of Blaster sets are pretty standardized anyway. I see pros and cons in Corr and Blaster version but I don't see one being definitely "inferior".
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I'm playing a Dark/Mental/Elec right now as well. Not a stellar blaster but a solid middle of the road selection with several interesting tricks that makes it worth playing. The only thing that I find annoying with the combination is the differing range and cone widths. You can slot it to compensate somewhat but you HAVE to play right in the sweet spot to make it work.
You are also right about numbers not lying. The problem is that lack of experience with the set means that the conclusions that you draw from those number are erroneous. I've played the set as both a blaster and a defender. I still play the FF/Psi and the secondary is decent. I might someday roll another Defender or Corruptor with Psi being my damage powers. I'll never roll another Psi Blaster unless the set gets some serious rework done to it.
If Blaster Psi had been done like Fortunata Psi no one would be complaining.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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This is the problem. They took one area attack from the Psi primary and put it in the Mental Secondary. This leaves Psi/Mental Blasters OK, Psi/* Blasters below par and */MM blasters above par in terms of area damage.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am sorry. I am still not buying that Psi Set is that inferior on Blaster. The only down side is having one less AoE but they add one cone to /mental. Not that I agree with this but there are options to get more aoe (/fiery has two as well) if you feel the need to. Sonic Blast also only has one aoe. My very first hero is 50 Sonic/Ice. And I've played several Stalkers that either don't have any aoe or has very limited aoe. The fact that Blasters have options to get more aoe is good.
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I see way more /MM Blasters than Psi/ ones, and this is why.
Sonic, by the way, has 2 area damage attacks, Howl and Shockwave, and they both recharge in 10 seconds or less. They do less damage than normal, but you can fire off 4 of them (2 of each) in the time it takes Psionic Tornado to recharge. Sonic/Mental with a bit of recharge practically gives you a cone attack chain.
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You see way more /MM Blasters because of Drain Psyche, and to a lesser extent Psychic Shockwave, it's not because of Psy Scream (which is good, but its not what makes MM so attractive). Drain Psyche is an extraordinary ability and unique to all blaster sets that sets it apart from other blaster secondary power sets. Psy has nothing that sets it apart from other blaster primary sets that make it unique (other than being strictly worse than many other sets)
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Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
This is the problem. They took one area attack from the Psi primary and put it in the Mental Secondary. This leaves Psi/Mental Blasters OK, Psi/* Blasters below par and */MM blasters above par in terms of area damage.
I see way more /MM Blasters than Psi/ ones, and this is why. |
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Shockwave does pitiful damage. It is mostly used for survival. You use Shockwave for aoe damage? |
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
Sonic, by the way, has 2 area damage attacks, Howl and Shockwave, and they both recharge in 10 seconds or less. They do less damage than normal, but you can fire off 4 of them (2 of each) in the time it takes Psionic Tornado to recharge. Sonic/Mental with a bit of recharge practically gives you a cone attack chain. |
Sonic/Mental is definitely a great combo.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Fortunata's Psi attack chain is nothing to be "excited" about. Dominate is the best attack because it's a hold and it does a bit better than tier 1 damage. Subdue is a typical 8s attack (the projectile used to travel even slower) and TK Blast does tier 1 damage with 6s recharge. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
If Blaster Psi had been done like Fortunata Psi no one would be complaining. |
Fortunata's Psi attack chain is pretty terrible until you put Gloom into the equation.
What I like about Fortunata is her mez protection, defense, some controls and team buffs. And Blaster can't be like Fortunata because there is no way they would give Blaster that kind of "survival" with the best damage.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I think he saw Shockwave and thought Claws > Shockwave, which is its Tier 9, and a very good AoE attack.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Shockwave does pitiful damage. It is mostly used for survival. You use Shockwave for aoe damage?
Sonic/Mental is definitely a great combo. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Learn how to press tab|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
3) It doesn't matter that the single target activations are fast since you can only burst one target and then you are waiting while your attacks recharge.
d. |
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| 4) The slow projectile speed makes the fast activations moot. The mobs will still get their attacks off at you because the projectile speed "nerfs" the fast attack chain. |
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| 5) 3 even con minions can defeat you because the set lacks enough AoE to take minions out. |
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Even then a psi blaster would outdamage the fort in single target.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Fortunata's Psi attack chain is pretty terrible until you put Gloom into the equation.
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Yep, I certainly slotted it for damage and used it in my attack chain.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Shockwave does pitiful damage. It is mostly used for survival. You use Shockwave for aoe damage?
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Shockwave does 2/3 of base area damage, and recycles in 8 seconds base. (Howl pushes this up to 3/4 base area damage on a Blaster)
Its easy to fit two of them into a Build Up or Aim window, especially if you open with it for the safety.
So I'd say it does more damage than Psi Tornado, which does around 90% damage and won't recharge in your Build Up window (20 seconds base) unless you have some hefty global recharge and slotting.
A Psi Blaster gets the one area attack under Build Up - 90% base area damage?
A Sonic Blaster gets Shockwave - Howl and Shockwave (and maybe a second Howl) in theirs. - 220% base area damage?
Sonic isn't the best area set by any means, but its far from a write-off in the way Psi Blast is.
Blaster Psi Blast didn't just lose AoE damage, it lost a major source of AoE -Recharge. Casting Psi Tornado followed by Psychic Scream is like a free Shiver in terms of its -Recharge debuff.
The set was, I feel it's fair to say, neutered by the port to Blasters. At the very least it should have its range restored to 100ft.
There is a reason that you see it used as an attack set for Corruptors and Defenders. It doesn't lack the AoE, it doesn't lack the range.