Looking for a Regen fix! But what to do?
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2011-11-02 19:02 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Yep, the true "You shall not pass!" meatshield tanker will always have a place on a team, and there's no AT that can match the Tank in that role. Brutes and some Scrappers can pinch hit but they won't match the ability a real Tank has, assuming good builds all around.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
In my mind, the mind set of the good tanker players and the mechanics of gauntlet means that tankers will never be obsolete. Or at the very least, I will always have a spot for one on my teams.
Brutes are great and Tanks are great, and they both overlap some and they both have a place in the game. |
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Alright! After more than a little tinkering in the character designer, I managed to come up with a Katana/Regen that I decided to go Scrapper with in the end. Seems like it'll be pretty fun, but I still have a couple of questions. Mostly regarding where to go with IO's when I get to that point. I know the ideal is a combination of defense and recharge, but with Katana should I shoot for Smashing/Lethal, or should I attempt to build for mostly Ranged/AOE defense? Bear in mind, I've never IO'd out a character before, but this seems like it's got enough potential to give it a try.
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Carnies and Arachnos can have a significant amount of Psi flying around as well, depending on exactly what spawns in the mission. |
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Yes, but how many groups are all psionic damage? Psychic Clockwork are nasty but those only show up in a handful of missions and all-Seer missions are pretty rare too (usually you have IDF, Warworks, or PPD too).
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And Arachnos are everywhere these days.
(Also, some Longbow Wardens with put a hurting on you with Psi.)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Not that you can't get some good suggestions here if previous posters give you feedback, but you can definitely find good stuff on that in the Scrapper forum. Katana/Regen is a comfortable glove for some of the game's most prolific Scrapper numbers hounds.|
Originally Posted by Digito
Alright! After more than a little tinkering in the character designer, I managed to come up with a Katana/Regen that I decided to go Scrapper with in the end. Seems like it'll be pretty fun, but I still have a couple of questions. Mostly regarding where to go with IO's when I get to that point. I know the ideal is a combination of defense and recharge, but with Katana should I shoot for Smashing/Lethal, or should I attempt to build for mostly Ranged/AOE defense? Bear in mind, I've never IO'd out a character before, but this seems like it's got enough potential to give it a try.
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Take a gander at this thread. The discussion is about building the Lamborghini of Kat/Regens, but even if you don't want to push the envelope as hard as the posters there are trying, it should give you some good ideas. It also delves into what Incarnate powers can work best, and why.
It's kind of long and gets number heavy, but some of the Scrapper boards' best contributors have posted in there.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Now i don't have a katana/regen, but having played regen a lot, and clicking a few things in mids, I suggest going for positional def. Because it would be easy and let you slot things in a good way for their primary purposes i.e. e.g. for melee attacks to hit hard fast and true.|
Originally Posted by Digito
Alright! After more than a little tinkering in the character designer, I managed to come up with a Katana/Regen that I decided to go Scrapper with in the end. Seems like it'll be pretty fun, but I still have a couple of questions. Mostly regarding where to go with IO's when I get to that point. I know the ideal is a combination of defense and recharge, but with Katana should I shoot for Smashing/Lethal, or should I attempt to build for mostly Ranged/AOE defense? Bear in mind, I've never IO'd out a character before, but this seems like it's got enough potential to give it a try.
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Some fighting pool and some Aegis, Mako's bites, Scirocco's, add those up, and you're looking good. Some recharge from oblits and doctored wounds...
yep yep starting to sound nice. Shadow Meld and MoG.
hrm I might have to roll one of these....
another....eh...sorry gotta go play....
Mains - Freedom: Croatoa - 50 Fire/Psi Dom, Grandville - 50 SS/Elec Brute, Dark-Astoria - 50 Dark/Fire Scrapper, Pearline - 50 Spines/Regen Scrapper, Caffeine Girl - 50 Earth/Kin Troller
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I think, then, that we ultimately agree. My argument is that I don't have any more difficulty playing a brute than I do a Scrapper provided that my team understands what it is doing. In fact, I usually consider it a bonus that I get to be the center of attention in that I can build my fury more quickly. Obviously I'm also taking all the damage and the debuffs that go with that, but on a good team that shouldn't matter. If I'm on a not-so-great team, however, then I can't always guarantee that my brute is going to have some method for evading all the death he's attracting. Other than just.... you know, heroically running away. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Let me give you an example.
I have a Stone Melee/Fiery Aura Brute. Regen and FA don't play a lot alike, but I believe they share some broad survival characteristics. Compared to a lot of their peer powersets, both are comparatively fragile, especially when talking about heavily IO equipped characters. Where FA has resists, Regen gets more click mitigation. Despite my labeling it on the fragile side, mine is a very survivable character, though against most foes that is in no small part due to Fault and FA's offensive strength. I can solo it against a lot of critter factions on +4/x8. That means that, when I am on a team, I can often be completely oblivious to how much aggro I am taking, because I could probably survive the aggro of the whole team. However, not all content is that forgiving. If I find myself the primary aggro soak against the kinds of foes I cannot readily solo on max difficulty, such as foes with lots of Psi damage, foes who can strip my defense, or foes who deal lots of pure energy damage from out of melee range (my defense to Energy is only moderate), I can get into a lot of trouble fast. Foes like the IDF in the iTrials can be particularly hairy, because they exhibit all the dangerous traits listed above. I know what kinds if things are bad for my brute, and were I solo, I would avoid piling a ton of their aggro on myself. But on a team or a league, I don't always have that luxury. Yes, if I am on a good team, they can keep that from happening. Of course it's not safe to assume that your typical PuG team is a good team, and for trials gated behind the Team Up Teleporter, PuGs are the primary thing most of us play. Not all sets need to apply this level of caution to as many foes. The more durable your build, the less affected you are by how well your team supports you. Based on how I play my Regen Scrappers, I find the level of caution required in terms of what I aggro similar to that required for my Brute, but only my Brute pulls aggro from nearby foes just by using AoEs. The Scrappers (and Stalker) get to shed aggro relatively easily if anyone else damages their targets. It's not as easy when you've been slathering them with Gauntlet or, in Brute Regen's case, a taunt aura. The effect I am describing is not the end of the world. It is simply something I have perceived in literally thousands of hours of play with the characters in question that I think is worth mentioning. |
That said, a bad team is still going to be bad for everyone, regardless of the AT and not just the Brute. While I agree that a Brute is more prone to death in this kind of a scenario, I've always judged failure in this game by the inability to complete content in a timely fashion, or at all. Death is, at best, a minor inconvenience, and while it can certainly add to the inability to complete a mission I don't consider it a failure.
I can say what I hate most about Regen.
I would like to see the MoG cast time lowered. The air punch is too slow even for my disabled mum with arthritis. I would like to see it eliminated when running in and then I would like to see MoG last 30s.
The MoG animation. Punching the air. I could run in, see something suddenly and think "Oh boy I better" and MoG, to stop running and stand still for a lengthy enough amount of time whilst a team mate(s) who is unaware of what I saw runs by and straight in to defeat. But never mind I just spent 3 secs of standing still for 15s of awesomeness 
. Yep that will help me get through that remainder of a 20s average fight duration except half the team is missing, so that won't will help me get through the 40s fight duration
When I go awesome, not only do I like to feel different, I like to look different, the molecules in my body have been altered by the extremophiles in my system that work faster to restore my body. I like to change costume only the costume can't change back when MoG crashes. I know a faster costume change would lag servers because everyone can costume change often but not everyone can MoG and to be able to MoG from one costume change to another is better.
I don't think given the rest of the set which might be over-rated a tad, I mean for a start a clicky secondary lowers the dps of a primary that I am asking for too much.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I think asking for MoG's duration to be 30 seconds is asking for the moon with a side of garnish.
Asking for the animation time to be relaxed a bit I can see. Granted, I like the animation, but I don't question that it's cumbersome on other performance, or even just getting around. That's a bit annoying on a power with a pretty short duration, even if I think that duration is otherwise OK.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I like the MoG animation. Not only using it myself, but on enemies such as paragon protectors. The protractedness of it fits perfectly with its effect, and it's as though they're both literally and figuratively slowly extending their middle finger at you.
Regen sucks on Stalker. There's really not enough HP Cap to regenerate and Stalker doesn't get the +recovery. It's a junk version IMO.
Now, I don't want them to increase Stalker's HP Cap but they can at least increase or add some +resistance or +defense to make up the fact that the regeneration effect is not potent for Stalkers.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I want them to increase the HP cap. I don't buy the arguments against it. I buy that they could be a problem in PvP, but I honestly don't give a damn.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Now, I don't want them to increase Stalker's HP Cap but they can at least increase or add some +resistance or +defense to make up the fact that the regeneration effect is not potent for Stalkers.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Well, at this point, we need to pick our "poison". I know I am one of the few that is against increasing HP Cap and mostly because I don't want Stalker to become another Scrapper with higher HP cap and survival.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I want them to increase the HP cap. I don't buy the arguments against it. I buy that they could be a problem in PvP, but I honestly don't give a damn.
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If Stalker is a truly "Glass Cannon", give me that CANNON part! I am not seeing the Cannon part except when I am on a full team with 8 people hugging me.
Of course any buff for Stalker is welcome but I want more damage with less restriction on the Team Critical Buffs. It makes no sense that the truly "Stealthy Assassin" class in this game needs teammates to do good damage. That is just so against the traditional design.
They can improve Regen on Stalker by giving it more +resistance, +defense or other goodies without increasing the HP Cap. Now I don't know the reason behind the low cap and quite frankly I don't really care. I just know that my Stalker survives pretty well but the damage potential in comparison to other ATs is quite limited. Stalker's damage is decent for most parts of the game but you have other ATs with broken set combos that deal just too much damage with good survival.
As for PvP, is Stalker really that good? I've only got killed by Stalker when I am not careful and standing there. Other than that, if you know Stalker is there (IE Tournament), I think Stalker is quite easy to kill. I find high level Tankers and some Blasters are the hardest to kill. Stalker is really only good at ganking the weak in both PvE and PvP. Assassin Strike damage doesn't scale with AV so its "burst damage" advantage fails in that situation.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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This fear is unfounded. Other powersets already provide the survival benefit and far more of having enough HP headroom to benefit fully from slotted Dull Pain. Effects which provide +HP to allies are few and far between compared to those which provide other forms of survival, meaning that those who already have strong mitigation tools in-powerset are not likely to be made significantly more durable in general due to widespread availability of +HP buffs. The main beneficiaries would be Regen and to a lesser extent Willpower.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, at this point, we need to pick our "poison". I am know I am one of the few that is against increasing HP Cap and mostly because I don't want Stalker to become another Scrapper with higher HP cap and survival.
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| Of course any buff for Stalker is welcome but I want more damage with less restriction on the Team Critical Buffs. It makes no sense that the truly "Stealthy Assassin" class in this game needs teammates to do good damage. That is just so against the traditional design. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Not seen this mentioned but Scrappers also have a MUCH higher Regen cap then brutes.
I believe its 2500 Brute vs 3500 Scrapper
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It's actually 2500 Brute and 3000 Scrapper. However, in practice this ends up being a wash from a certain perspective - level 50 Brute base HP is 1.2 times as high as Scrapper HP, and 3000 is 1.2 times 2500. So a Brute at the regen cap is regenerating the same number of HP/sec that a Scrapper is at their regen cap, assuming the same +HP buffs on each character. The Brute, of course, has a much higher +HP cap, and so can exceed the HP/sec regenerated by a Scrapper with enough external +HP buffs. I concede that's not all that common, however.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
I believe its 2500 Brute vs 3500 Scrapper
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
On the other hand, the "traditional design" doesn't fit very well into how people seem to play CoH. The problem the devs were trying to fix was that Stalkers were outclassed by pretty much everyone on teams, so there was little motivation to invite one. I think a lot of peeple can argue convincingly that's still the case, but the crit chance change at least reduced how big the gap was for single-target damage.
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I enjoy the extra critical chance on a large team but I hate how small 30' radius is. The extra critical chance with a small radius is to encourage Stalkers to fight with the team, rather than trying to "hit and run".
I know many people want the dev to just increase damage modifier to 1.125 to match Scrapper's and stop worrying about how big the radius should be./;
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
But there's just no substitute for knowing that you're as survivable as you can possibly be without outside intervention.
Brutes are great and Tanks are great, and they both overlap some and they both have a place in the game.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.