Mids: How do I understand some values.


Arcanaville

 

Posted

You know, I've been using mids for years now and I really enjoy making characters builds and trying to come up with ways to do new and interesting things, but I started realizng there's a few things I don't understand very well.

For one thing accuracy. I don't understand how the percentage translates into your ability to hit a mob. If I have a 147% accuracy, what are my chances to hit an equal level mob minion, lt., and boss?

I've always been under then assumption that anything over 200% was great and anything under 150% was not so good, but that was just some crazy parameter I put in place so I didn't really have to understand it. Now I'm just curious, because I think understanding it would help me improve my builds.

Endurance usage was another thing. I've never quite understood what was a good rate of consumption compared to recovery. I always figured if I could double recovery over what the consumption was I'd be good, but then again I've never known how to take into account my attacks would use over time.

I pretty much understand everything else really well, but it was finally bugging me that I still didn't understand these values very well.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA View Post
You know, I've been using mids for years now and I really enjoy making characters builds and trying to come up with ways to do new and interesting things, but I started realizng there's a few things I don't understand very well.

For one thing accuracy. I don't understand how the percentage translates into your ability to hit a mob. If I have a 147% accuracy, what are my chances to hit an equal level mob minion, lt., and boss?

I've always been under then assumption that anything over 200% was great and anything under 150% was not so good, but that was just some crazy parameter I put in place so I didn't really have to understand it. Now I'm just curious, because I think understanding it would help me improve my builds.

Endurance usage was another thing. I've never quite understood what was a good rate of consumption compared to recovery. I always figured if I could double recovery over what the consumption was I'd be good, but then again I've never known how to take into account my attacks would use over time.

I pretty much understand everything else really well, but it was finally bugging me that I still didn't understand these values very well.
Your chance to hit a target doesn't just depend on you, it depends on the target as well. It could be running defenses, for example. So there is no way to actually say what your chance to hit a target is, for all targets in the game.

Mids assumes that your base chance to hit a target is 75%, which is the base chance for a player to hit an even con target without any defense. It then calculates your chance to hit such a target after factoring in all accuracy bonuses. That's why you end up with these very large numbers: you've generally saturated accuracy against such a target to the point where its higher than the 95% ceiling the game enforces.

You can change that base 75% chance to hit the target if you wish by going into the Options -> Configuration -> Exemping and Base Values. There you'll see the base tohit that Mids is assuming in all its Accuracy calculations. You could change that to the base chance to hit a +1 (65%), or the chance to hit a +2 with 15% defense (41%) or whatever you want. Just keep in mind that your target has a say in whether you hit or not, and all targets are different, and that's why neither Mids nor the game can give one single value for your chance to hit.


As to endurance, that's highly dependent on your build and how you play. Its much harder to give guidance there. But its a safe bet that differentials as high or higher than base recovery with unslotted stamina (somewhere around 2.0 eps) tend to provide a lot of breathing room on endurance.


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Posted

The accuracy displayed is based on the normal 75% chance to hit an enemy your own level that has no defense. So, in those circumstances a 150% chance to hit is extremely overkill, since it caps at 95%. You can change that 75% value in options -> configuration -> exemping and base values -> base tohit. I often set it to 39 or 48, which is your base chance to hit a +4 or +3 enemy respectively.

To calculate endurance usage, you can add up the total cost of your attack chain, then divide it by the time it takes to execute the chain. That will give you the effective end/sec used by your attacks. Add that to the cost of your toggles and you have your total endurance consumption. If that value far exceeds your endurance recovery, you might have problems. Ideally your recovery will equal or exceed your total consumption, but for most builds in most situations it's good enough to have a small net drain (if you have a net drain of 1 end/sec, it still takes you 100+ seconds depending on accolades to run out of endurance when attacking nonstop). Powers that aren't strictly part of an attack chain are harder to translate directly into an end/sec number.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Your chance to hit a target doesn't just depend on you, it depends on the target as well. It could be running defenses, for example. So there is no way to actually say what your chance to hit a target is, for all targets in the game.

Mids assumes that your base chance to hit a target is 75%, which is the base chance for a player to hit an even con target without any defense. It then calculates your chance to hit such a target after factoring in all accuracy bonuses. That's why you end up with these very large numbers: you've generally saturated accuracy against such a target to the point where its higher than the 95% ceiling the game enforces.

You can change that base 75% chance to hit the target if you wish by going into the Options -> Configuration -> Exemping and Base Values. There you'll see the base tohit that Mids is assuming in all its Accuracy calculations. You could change that to the base chance to hit a +1 (65%), or the chance to hit a +2 with 15% defense (41%) or whatever you want. Just keep in mind that your target has a say in whether you hit or not, and all targets are different, and that's why neither Mids nor the game can give one single value for your chance to hit.


As to endurance, that's highly dependent on your build and how you play. Its much harder to give guidance there. But its a safe bet that differentials as high or higher than base recovery with unslotted stamina (somewhere around 2.0 eps) tend to provide a lot of breathing room on endurance.
Ah, I get it. So at 95% I'm technically at the accuracy cap to hit an equal level mob. But since that doesn't take into account enemy defenses, increased levels, (Lt and boss status?) and other abilities (like vengeance) the added accuracy/to-hit bonuses are there to account for that. I doubt it's a proportional trade off of 1% accuracy for 1% defense (That'd be too simple, I'd guess), so when I have an accuracy value of 200-300% I'm probably over doing it a bit in most instances. I guess unless I want to hit +4's with some accuracy.

That helps a lot.

I'll just have to keep that in mind for endurance.

Thanks for the reply, Arcanaville.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
The accuracy displayed is based on the normal 75% chance to hit an enemy your own level that has no defense. So, in those circumstances a 150% chance to hit is extremely overkill, since it caps at 95%. You can change that 75% value in options -> configuration -> exemping and base values -> base tohit. I often set it to 39 or 48, which is your base chance to hit a +4 or +3 enemy respectively.

To calculate endurance usage, you can add up the total cost of your attack chain, then divide it by the time it takes to execute the chain. That will give you the effective end/sec used by your attacks. Add that to the cost of your toggles and you have your total endurance consumption. If that value far exceeds your endurance recovery, you might have problems. Ideally your recovery will equal or exceed your total consumption, but for most builds in most situations it's good enough to have a small net drain (if you have a net drain of 1 end/sec, it still takes you 100+ seconds depending on accolades to run out of endurance when attacking nonstop). Powers that aren't strictly part of an attack chain are harder to translate directly into an end/sec number.
Awesome, this is good information. I'm not a very mathematically adept person. I seem to have an issue with writing numbers backwards. 58 as 85 or 157 as 175, but I think I'd like to give this a try with some of my builds and see how it comes out.

Thanks.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA View Post
(Lt and boss status?)
Rank has no effect on your baseline tohit chance. Your level compared to your target's level is all that matters for determining that.


 

Posted

Oh wow....

This has made me realize that some of my builds really really really stink against +4's.

Thanks, Wonderslug. I actually thought there was a difference.


 

Posted

Rank may not have a direct effect on your chance to hit, but Lts. and bosses may be more likely to have some form of +defense power than minions.


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Posted

Quote:
I doubt it's a proportional trade off of 1% accuracy for 1% defense (That'd be too simple, I'd guess), so when I have an accuracy value of 200-300% I'm probably over doing it a bit in most instances. I guess unless I want to hit +4's with some accuracy.
Defense actually counters ToHit base value and buffs and not Accuracy. Accuracy simply scales up the resulting ToHit value after ToHit Buffs and Defence values are applied.


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Posted

Also take into account that to-hit debuffs will take a large toll on your ability to hit things. CoT's Spectral demon's Chill of the Night power is one example. Banished Pantheon Death Mask's dark blast, and the Storm Shaman's Hurricane are other examples of this. So seeing accuracy numbers far and above 95% shouldn't be considered overkill.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
Might as well link him to the ParagonWiki page on the subject.

ParagonWiki: Attack Mechanics
Oh, good link. Thank you.


 

Posted

A very rough rule of thumb I've used with Mid's foir endurance calculation is that having my end recovery at least 2 whole points per second above my end burn from toggles is a good place to be, assuming I have moderate end reduction slotting in my attack chain roughly one SO or more). It's not precise, because different powersets and playstyles will bur end at different rates. But it gives me a ballpark figure to determine how much more effort I need to put into endurance when looking at a build.


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