I've always fancied more choice with alot of my powersets, mutually excluse thematic routes for the same thing.
The trouble is, Assault rifle provides a clear and useful argument, and you articulated it perfectly. Finding a similar argument for Fire Control (maybe a version thats damage lite, control heavy) is there, but you have to grasp at it.
Finding the same argument for Broadsword or Sonic Blast is tougher.
Ands you know people would hate on it if every set except their fav got new stoof.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Fantastic. You are, of course, willing to pay out-of-pocket so that Paragon can double their staff to give you all of this?
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<Throws a flag>|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Fantastic. You are, of course, willing to pay out-of-pocket so that Paragon can double their staff to give you all of this?
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Assumption of manpower, defense. Automatic first down.
(Would we really need double the amount of worlds creators and writers to work on player powers?
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I mean, I'm with that but I don't think other people actually like that. I'd like to see the ICE and Fire sets fleshed out, separate the fire sword and ice sword.
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@Inconclusive
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Given that this would likely be part of the equivalent of a paid expansion, yes. We have paid for things of this magnitude before and will again. Especially with freedom here. I'll gladly sink money into this game. Unlike the rest of life, where the price of items continue to rise as companies make record profits, at least when I spend more money on this game I actually get increased returns from it. AND they now give me a choice on what to spend money for more than ever.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Fantastic. You are, of course, willing to pay out-of-pocket so that Paragon can double their staff to give you all of this?
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People throw money around like it's an end all argument. Money is only important IN CONTEXT. More cost =/= bad. It's all about how much you get in return and how much your willing to spend, which is entirely based on price/return for competitive products. For example: See Netflix. People are outraged that they are increasing their prices, prices that have stayed the same as licensing companies and internet companies have continuously charged them more. Furthermore it's still hands down cheaper than anything excepting Redbox. Redbox still only wins in low usage situations where the individual does not spend extra money at the establishment it's intentionally placed at.
Money aside, honestly you wouldn't have to do every set at once. Look at power set proliferation. It's taking awhile but it's getting there and is definitely appreciated.
Basically, the premise of my Powerset Skin idea. Basically, the idea is, since it's easier to make *new* sets rather than trying to revisit old ones, just make buyable skins that give you more options to sets.
My first imagining had the idea being alternate 'modes' or 'stances' for thematic sets but people deemed it overpowered and a waste of time/resources.
I felt it seemed like a good idea, especially if you want to play something like 'Assault Rifle' but you don't want to go making a whole new set with practically the same theme in mind.
Examples:
-Optic Blasts skin for Energy Blast (blasts of varying widths and intensities from the eyes).
-Microwave Beams skin for Radiation Blast (think solid beams instead of balls of 'stuff')
-Grenades for Assault Rifle (various explosive charges and bombs launched from the gun)
-Fencing skin for Broadsword (lighter, faster, more finesse)
-Iaido skin for Katana (longer root time but instantaneous damage)
I suppose the difference between my idea and this is you're literally adding power options to existing sets where mine are replacing (they're an exclusive style, although the costume skin would just be alternate animations so wouldn't be exclusive). I feel having larger branching powersets would be tougher to balance. If the powers were exclusive and locked out other options after you choose them, maybe that'd be easier. But would it be desirable? I don't know. But interested to see what other responses your idea gets.
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Ya the balancing is prolly a thing, but really with attack powers it's not that big of a deal. You cannot exceed a rotation. IE animation speed will ultimately limit your damage output. We already have sets out there with ridiculous AOE or single target damage output, so in reality you have alot of playing room. You can do some cool, unique, and possibly even powerful stuff. Just as long as you don't get too heavy handed within the same set. If you came up with 2 particularly strong powers or those of tier 9 proportions I'd assume you'd make them mutually exclusive. Same thing with stacking off buffs and debuffs past designs of 1 set. Could give thematic options for 1 set without letting them essentially break the game in certain areas.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Basically, the premise of my Powerset Skin idea. Basically, the idea is, since it's easier to make *new* sets rather than trying to revisit old ones, just make buyable skins that give you more options to sets.
My first imagining had the idea being alternate 'modes' or 'stances' for thematic sets but people deemed it overpowered and a waste of time/resources. I felt it seemed like a good idea, especially if you want to play something like 'Assault Rifle' but you don't want to go making a whole new set with practically the same theme in mind. Examples: -Optic Blasts skin for Energy Blast (blasts of varying widths and intensities from the eyes). -Microwave Beams skin for Radiation Blast (think solid beams instead of balls of 'stuff') -Grenades for Assault Rifle (various explosive charges and bombs launched from the gun) -Fencing skin for Broadsword (lighter, faster, more finesse) -Iaido skin for Katana (longer root time but instantaneous damage) I suppose the difference between my idea and this is you're literally adding power options to existing sets where mine are replacing (they're an exclusive style, although the costume skin would just be alternate animations so wouldn't be exclusive). I feel having larger branching powersets would be tougher to balance. If the powers were exclusive and locked out other options after you choose them, maybe that'd be easier. But would it be desirable? I don't know. But interested to see what other responses your idea gets. |
Most things could be done within existing animations, though I would hope for some new stuff too :P.
Essentially I want to give people more freedom within a single power set. Both look and feel as well as play style. Taking some of the good of another popular superhero game, but using it within COH's gameplay mechanics. Lets be honest at no time do we want to mess up COH's gameplay mechanics, it's what makes this game fun. But you can get more freedom of creation without doing that. I'm also not about to start suggesting the ability to mix and match power sets. While cool and possible to be well done one day, that will never work in COH as is. I want to improve a good thing, not make something different
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As a system becomes more complex, it becomes exponentially more difficult to fairly balance.
Maybe you want more options, but IMO this would simply result in a new set of cookie-cutter builds for each AT and (expanded) powerset, optimized for maximum DPS/resistance/recharge/all of the above as the "best" choices are quickly identified and codified.
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Yet we all want new sets with new mechanics. While we get increasing amounts of power through incarnate and now buyable enhances for each AT. As well as enhancement boosters and shiny new inspirations. As well as more slots.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
As a system becomes more complex, it becomes exponentially more difficult to fairly balance.
Maybe you want more options, but IMO this would simply result in a new set of cookie-cutter builds for each AT and (expanded) powerset, optimized for maximum DPS/resistance/recharge/all of the above as the "best" choices are quickly identified and codified. |
I'm saying to keep it within reason as much as possible. However fact is we passed the power bridge a long time ago. Challenge wise the game is nothing like it was it one time. Back when people didn't just dislike carnies and malta, they cursed them as being far too strong and totally cheap bs. Now my I can waltz through them with most any AT with a good build. Defenders used to be the golden child of the game for exactly that reason. Things had a very good chance of killing you and your team without one or two.
Not to mention that there are quite alot of us out there that simply play whats fun. Regardless of whether it's considered "less powerful" or "FOTM". I actually put down katana because I felt DA made things far too easy and took away from the "feel" of the set. I played TA/A from the day it released, and LOVED it. Even when it was gimp by comparison. I've seen numerous fire/kin and fa/fm and etc roll past me and farm away, and still stuck with my own toons. I rolled a FA/FM finally when they were nerfed, then they were rebuffed lol, but are still relatively fragile (outside of AE). I rolled a time defender and a couple time MM and so far my opinion is it needs nerfing lol.
Don't give me that crap where we can't have options because someone will eventually find a way to abuse them. That's an equal argument for never adding new power sets or mechanics to the game. Why don't you just say you want to kill the game lol. No new content = slow bleed till death. If you add something to the game and it goes over the top, yeah I'm sorry but you nerf it. Just ask regen how that feels
.Theoretically that's all moot though. They don't balance around IO's. They balance around SO's.
I think that power sets in general should be revamped to give them more options, starting with some of the lesser used ones.
Personal story:
For example, Assault Rifle is a set I thought I would like. Unfortunately the gun on it turned out to be a small weapons platform. While it's cool to shoot buckshot, flames, grenades, more flames, machine gun bullets, sniper shells, rifle shells, and etc out of the same gun it really lost the magic of a natural Assault Rifle set for me. In comes VEAT sets and Wolf Spiders. Bam, a much more "gun toting" experience.
The Point:
To add more options I would suggest 1 of 3 things.
1. Make power sets like really big power pools. Tiers unlock at specific levels and you have to get low tier powers to get high tier powers. HOWEVER, you can have alot more than just 9 powers to choose from. This would be like the VEAT's with different restrictions.
2. Implement the VEAT type system for all power sets.
3. If possible tech wise let us have 2-3 choices for some tiers or each tier. So for instance maybe you can get buckshot OR heavy burst.
Examples:
Could have multiple play styles on some sets that are currently limited.
Could give alternate Tier 1 and Tier 2 attacks so people are not stuck with Tier 1 or 2 that they do not like.
Could bypass the cottage rule for helping some sets. *looks at force fields*
Could use new tech on older sets. *looks at Electric Blast (where is my chain lightning!!??)*
Could allow people valid power choices instead of junk powers. *looks at time bomb*
Could allow people to more easily fit concepts. *pistol powers that are not gun-fu*
Could help some struggling sets with great potential. *looks at devices*
Could allow people to avoid powers they do not like while still choosing a set more easily. *for instance I generally dislike eye beam type powers or insanely quick recharge blasts*
Could add more variety without the limits of animation time so like as options were generally equal. *Martial Arts attacks*
Concerns:
The real concerns I see people having are balance and homogenization. Balance I see as a concern. How do you balance that kind of freedom? I mean look at VEAT's. They can get such good combinations, if you give variety that's bound to happen. But by the same token some power sets can already do that. It's hard for others to compete as they are held back by the very concept of balance that others have "broken". So it's a muddy issue.
Homogenization? Well really you have 2 things opposed on that one. It's "uniqueness" of each set vs the freedom to tailor a set to you. While I think it's cool that you go fire for AOE and Beam Rifle for single target I don't think the limitations should be as severe as they can be sometimes.
If you want unique effects? Most things have that outside of how many targets they are suited for. Fire has DOT effects (that could be expanded upon), Electricity has end drain (and should have chain attacks), Ice has slows and tendencies to hold/sleep, energy has kb, radiation has -def, etc. You can make things unique without big limits.
Lets face it, this game is about rolling fun characters, teaming up, and pounding bad guys with friends. Freedom is a good thing.
Thoughts? Opinions? Criticism?