Paragon Market prices
By
Alexander_Drako,
Posted on: 2011-09-14 10:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I think they should put in the description things like, "[x] Paragon Points for up to 5,760 extra enhancement inventory slots!" (That's one enhancement inventory tray per 48 possible character slots across 12 possible servers, with 10 enhancement inventory slots per tray.) I dunno, maybe that would get people out of the mode of psychologically think of it as $20 for just one extra tray for their one character.
|
Originally Posted by Oliin
...rename them (if that's possible) things like 'Account Wide Enhancement Increase', though I don't know if there's a character limit for item names (though from the shortening of inventory to 'inv' I'm guessing there is).
|
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Quote:
Per my message above, that's 5 per character, with up to 48 characters per server, with up to 12 servers. That $50 actually buys you not just 5 costume slots, but actually up to 2,880 costume slots, and that ain't a half bad price.|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
It doesn't.
We already get 5 costume slots for "free" in game. having to pay $50 for 5 more is just... too much. |
I know what you mean, and I know that no one in their right mind actually has 576 characters. But the vast majority of players do have more than just one character, so yeah, it's still not "$50 for 5 costume slots."
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Quote:
I find their declarations that they won't pay those prices amusing since as VIP's it won't cost them a penny if they just use the free points they'll be getting with their subs.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
If it helps, the costume slot unlocks and the storage unlocks are *global*.
 |
As to the price of the extra Enhancement Trays, I think the price is more than fair. Especially considering how much money it will save on the cost of using Respecs and Enhancement Unslotters to strip a build of enhancements. Which is what many players have been begging for ever since the day respecs were added to the game.
Damn you NC Soft and all your goodness...
I...am....a.....sucker....
Got two enhancement slots
Got the barbarian set
Got the rocketboard
Got the beam rifle set (duh)
Got all three sets of the Celestrial Armor
Got storage and recipe increases (one of each)
Got 3 new character slots
Believe it or not I have points still...
Yes, I am gullible but you love me anyways...
Quote:
Get in line. It's been getting harped on for a while now. |
Originally Posted by Feycat
Bleh. That needs to be changed ASAP.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Tony, while what you are saying makes sense. You've completely missed the real point here.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Guys, DON'T PANIC.
*KER-SNIP!* More DOOOOM!-crying happens in this place because people totally blow off the concept of earning stuff over time and only think in terms of having it all right this second. So don't worry. Be happy. Give it a little time. Edit: F-pazzin'! (Or, if you prefer, FPAZN.) |
What people are talking about isn't necessarily prices in relation to VIP customers who can just save for stuff.
It's prices with regards to establishing a STABLE microtransaction flow from Standard/Premium players. You know, the ones who AREN'T getting $5 a month in bribes. I'll say it again. There is NOTHING "micro" about a $10 median price point when that same $10 can get you a monthly sub AND the $5 in bribe points.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
*lines up behind Hyperstrike with her harp*
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Get in line. It's been getting harped on for a while now.
|
Quote:
You make several (eronious) assumptions here:|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
You're missing the basic point here. The prices are too high.
This is supposed to be a MICRO-transaction system we've converted over to. There's nothing "micro" about a median price point of $10. They're trying to get free-players to spend real money for points to purchase inconsequentials. With most of the stuff being roughly in the $10-20 range, it's more economical just to buy a monthly subscription via time-card. $9.50 a month. They're essentially pricing themselves OUT of the F2P market. |
In my mind 5-10 sometimes even 15 bucks is definately "micro" in this day and age. When I can easy go to dinner at a "fast casual" restaurant by myself and spend 10-20 bucks on dinner, I consider that a fairly small amount of money. To someone older than me it's not. I'm not sure how people younger than me feel.
"Most of the stuff" is not in the $10-20 dollar range, just most of the stuff *you're looking at/interested in* is. Most of it is between 50 cents and 5 dollars.
You think they're "forcing free players to buy inconsequentials" but it's your *opinion* those things are inconsequential. Technically any virtual good is inconsequential.
Yes, for someone who isn't VIP it's CERTAINLY more economical to buy a subscription, and that's what Paragon wants, is more people subbing.
"They're essentially pricing themselves OUT of the F2P market" You're assuming they ever WERE/WANTED TO BE in the F2P market in the first place. It's not an F2P model, it's a Hybrid Model.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Nearly everything in the store is more expensive than buying a monthly subscription with time cards.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
You're wrong. Everything is always visible on the market. Even if you already own it. And there is NO indicator as to what you have bought already.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
It doesn't.
We already get 5 costume slots for "free" in game. having to pay $50 for 5 more is just... too much. The price is too high and with the free ones in game there just isn't enough incentive to buy more global slots. Especially with all the free tailor sessions and tailor tokens to lower price (75% discount). I can just make costume files and save/load those to my hearts content. So yea, i think PS need to rethink the pricing. Its the same with enhancement storage and the likes. We've lived with 10 slots for seven years. We're used to that and at least to me, having to pay $20 for 10 more isn't enough incentive for me to open my wallet. For $10 i might consider it, but 20? f that noise. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Tony, while what you are saying makes sense. You've completely missed the real point here.
What people are talking about isn't necessarily prices in relation to VIP customers who can just save for stuff. It's prices with regards to establishing a STABLE microtransaction flow from Standard/Premium players. You know, the ones who AREN'T getting $5 a month in bribes. I'll say it again. There is NOTHING "micro" about a $10 median price point when that same $10 can get you a monthly sub AND the $5 in bribe points. |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
Quote:
Yeah, I know. My second account has the magic pack (thanks to the AE edition) and still has the option to buy the Magic set bundle.
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
|
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
And some of us think the prices are micro.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
It's prices with regards to establishing a STABLE microtransaction flow from Standard/Premium players. You know, the ones who AREN'T getting $5 a month in bribes. I'll say it again. There is NOTHING "micro" about a $10 median price point when that same $10 can get you a monthly sub AND the $5 in bribe points.
|
Are they too high? Time will tell.
However, just because a few forum posters do not agree with the prices, does not make them too high, any more than a few posters like me accepting makes them the right level.
For my main hobby, these prices seem just fine to me.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
Quote:
It's...|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Tony, while what you are saying makes sense. You've completely missed the real point here.
What people are talking about isn't necessarily prices in relation to VIP customers who can just save for stuff. It's prices with regards to establishing a STABLE microtransaction flow from Standard/Premium players. You know, the ones who AREN'T getting $5 a month in bribes. I'll say it again. There is NOTHING "micro" about a $10 median price point when that same $10 can get you a monthly sub AND the $5 in bribe points. |
It's almost as if...
The Devs WANT you to subscribe!
*gasp*
DIABOLICAL!
Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.
Quote:
Yes. But the whole thing about a MICROtransaction system is to make the prices relatively trivial to ensure a steady income from the MICROtransaction system, even without a sub. What I'm saying is a median price of $10 is NONtrivial and will lead free players to deprecating use of the market.
|
Originally Posted by Casual_Player
It's...
It's almost as if... The Devs WANT you to subscribe! *gasp* DIABOLICAL! |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
To me, the individual prices are trivial. I have a decent job and don't hurt for cash. For someone forced to a premium account (as I know of a few) by financial straits and just general free-players, these price points provide a disincentive to actually use the market on a steady basis.
|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
And some of us think the prices are micro.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Didn't they already "raise" prices when they broke up the booster packs? Even with the bundles, the prices are still higher.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
You have to understand, it's MUCH easier to start out a little high and lower prices or have sales than it is to start out too low and convince your players that you need to raise prices--especially so since there are no production costs for the products you're selling!
|
And in regard to the "free" points VIPs get monthly, if I have to spend them on things that I feel I should be getting with my subscription anyway, it's not really free.
(Yes, I know, what I "feel" I'm entitled to is highly subjective and doesn't mean squat but I can still use past issues as a baseline comparison)
[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
Quote:
Not panicking. Giving feedback.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Guys, DON'T PANIC.
|
10 enhancement slots costs twice as much as a new powerset. Did it take twice the development time?
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Quote:
Oh. That does, actually.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
If it helps, the costume slot unlocks and the storage unlocks are *global*.
|
I thought the costume slots were going to be on a per-character basis since there's no mention of them being global, even though the storage increases make that point. Might want to look in to that?
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Even as a hopeless cynic, I had hopes the prices would drop more. The enhancement slots are hopelessly overpriced. FOUR months' subscription points for more enhancements? Two months for a a couple more salvage/recipe slots? To state it kindly, it's a bit befuddling.
There are two ways to make a buck: charge high, go for the few high spenders, or charge low and get money from almost everybody. Of course, the low assumes that there will be a constant stream of items to consume the 400 point stipend. These are not equal, however. The small transactions regularly earned are far more preferable, giving the company more goodwill as the offering are viewed as more generous. The high prices from the few that can afford it seem like the company is willing to use a double charge approach, asking as much for extras and conveniences as they do for the game experience itself.
Quote:
The free points aren't unlimited--there is an opportunity cost to spending them on anything. Spending 1600 points on 10 enhancement slots (yes, I know they are global) can mean not spending 1600 points on two powersets. We've got Street Justice, Titan Weapons, and That One Leaked Set We're Not Supposed To Know About coming out, and those are just the sets we know about. New costume sets are being worked on, new temp travel powers, and other things we don't know about. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I find their declarations that they won't pay those prices amusing since as VIP's it won't cost them a penny if they just use the free points they'll be getting with their subs.
|
You can't act like the stipend means that prices are irrelevant; there is every sign that more content will be placed in the store than the monthly stipend can buy, and that means prices are relevant even to VIP subscribers.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Quote:
Especially when you're paying a monthly fee to even play the game and the prices for you are the same as they are for people who play for free? Yeah, totally get that. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
apparently the hint wasn't gotten from the thread in the beta forums.
These prices are simply too high. I'm not paying $10 for a new power-set. I'm not paying $7.50 for a (admittedly cool looking) travel power. I'm not paying near the cost of a completely new game just to get more costume slots. I'm not paying near the cost of a completely new game just to get more enhancement storage slots. I'm not going to buy enhancement boosters. I don't need them. I'm not going to buy IO sets. I don't need them. Everything that I would have bought is simply priced too high for me to choke down buying. Everything that is priced... you know... in the MICROtransaction price bracket is stuff I don't need or can do without. |
A game that has subscribers and free players should never charge subscribers above and beyond their subscription for anything.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
I think what people are missing is that the enhancement slots are being priced as a way to pull more enhancements out on a respec. They have said that they would never allow that and that 10 was already being generous.
This isn't a purchase to make if you want to avoid running to the stores for a little longer, it's for people who have 5 purple sets and a pile of LotGs to pull out of a 50 before they delete him. 10 more enhancement slots might equal 3-4 repects which themselves would cost $10 each.
Would I ever buy 10 slots? **** no. But there are people for whom it is a good deal, so it's priced for those people.
Quote:
Above and beyond the reasons that Aracanaville gives, there's the simple reality that a virtual currency generates revenue at the point of sale of the currency instead of at the point that the market shopping cart is filled up and checked out.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I suspect there is a further reason beyond the "stability" one you mention above, and that is credit card processing takes more time and resources than burning points which are entirely internal to the store. So minimizing the number of credit card transactions also reduces backend processing load.
|
In essence, Paragon Studios isn't really selling power sets and enhancement unslotters. They're selling Paragon Points. Those things in the market are just the currency sink that drains the points back out of the economy. When you buy 400 points and expend 320 of them, they still have 400 points worth of revenue. I suspect that this is the real reason Impish_Kat wants to spend dollars rather than points - to spend exactly the purchase price in dollars and cents, and no more than that.
I'd advise the Kat to wait a bit for the first sale on Paragon Points, at which time spending points instead of dollars will be a more attractive proposition.
Guild Wars is the only game of those that I frequent that sells its market items using dollars. Even so, their cheapest item is on the order of $6.50 so you still don't get the opportunity to trigger those red flags that Arcanaville was talking about by making a lot of nickel and dime purchases.
Quote:
Provided the Market never gets anything else that's more interesting, which it will. I'll always pick costumes, powersets, missions and such over shelling out the price of an entire retail game for one extra row of enhancements that I somehow did just fine without up until a couple of days ago.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I find their declarations that they won't pay those prices amusing since as VIP's it won't cost them a penny if they just use the free points they'll be getting with their subs.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Ta-da. One used to be able to pull a few billion out of a build per respec, stripping a character over six respecs. Now you can pull many billions out of a build per respec over two respecs. Not just more convenient but faster and less likely to cost you either the inf for a respec recipe or the ten bucks for another respec.
|
Originally Posted by rsclark
I think what people are missing is that the enhancement slots are being priced as a way to pull more enhancements out on a respec.
|
As to the points versus dollars thing, there's a reason for it and it's related to the reason the points in such systems are rarely one-to-one with dollars/cents: it's to hide from the consumer the actual price.
If 1000 points equaled $10.00, the average consumer would be able to realize easily the level of spending they would have- a discrepancy in the conversation requires extra thought in evaluating real world dollars to pretendyfuntime points, a conversion many are not going to take the time to make.
This practice is intellectually predatory, but hardly uncommon.
We already get 5 costume slots for "free" in game. having to pay $50 for 5 more is just... too much. The price is too high and with the free ones in game there just isn't enough incentive to buy more global slots. Especially with all the free tailor sessions and tailor tokens to lower price (75% discount). I can just make costume files and save/load those to my hearts content.
So yea, i think PS need to rethink the pricing.
Its the same with enhancement storage and the likes.
We've lived with 10 slots for seven years. We're used to that and at least to me, having to pay $20 for 10 more isn't enough incentive for me to open my wallet. For $10 i might consider it, but 20? f that noise.